kevind
Journeyman
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 60
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Hi all, OK so I just received a new refill and my last one was able labs 10/325 they were super weak, so I called meds123.com and told them on the refill to send watsons. So a couple days ago I got yellow tabs, watsons, 10/325. These too are weak! Does anyone know how to make these things work? I've taken generic watsons 7.5/750 and they are much stronger than this! Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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Suggestion? It's not the meds - it's most likely tolerance or the 7.5/750's just work better for you because of the more APAP. It is not the meds. 10mg is 10mg is 10mg of hydrocodone. It wasn't the meds with Able either. There's no way you'd get 2 refills in a row of 2 different brands and both have something 'wrong' with them, that would be astronomical odds of that happening. My suggestion is to ask for a combo with higher APAP content on your next consult, maybe 10/500 or 10/650 - since the higher APAP seems to work better with you. You can't change meds mid-refills though so you will need to wait and ask next consult. That's about all you can do. Some people just don't like the 10/325's - but the 10mgs hydro is there - I think some people just get used to the taking of the equivalent of 2-3 Extra Strength tylenol along with their hydro and when that extra pain relief is not there it doesn't seem the same. And of course the other possibility would be tolerance or when you are taking the meds (don't take an hour before OR after eating - if you take food with meds just eat some crackers or a piece of toast or a few carrot sticks or something) Hope this helps.
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//zeuzjuz
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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Just remember: if you up the APAP amount, keep a watch out for your liver. If you take these meds chronically (daily) then try not to take more than 3g's, 4g's max of APAP per day (that would be 6-8 of the 10/500's or 5-6 of the 10/650's )
If this still doesn't seem to work for you or you need more than 6 or so hydro's per day for your condition, then maybe look at the new ibuprofen compund, Vicoprofen (200mg Ibuprofen, 7.5mg Hydro) - I would suggest compounds but it seems the lower dose APAP doesn't work for you as well (since you said you had good results from 7.5/750) Why don't you just go back to the 7.5's if they worked for you the best? 10/325 is not the best for everyone, just safest for the liver if you take the pills regularly and chronically.
sidenote: All the meds I have received from DatamarkHRI (10/500 usually) have been of the freshest quality of any pharmacy I have ever received from (considering they come straight from the sealed containers)
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//zeuzjuz
Edited by zeuzjuz (04/06/03 11:34 PM)
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dixiechick
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/29/02
Posts: 263
Loc: Deep South
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Kevin,
I got a refill from Datamark that was Able and it was horrible. The last one i received from them last week was Watson and it was back to the original good quality. Im sorry that you are still having problems. I have found that for me the Able doesnt work, but the other brands work fine. I exchanged a few PM's with Barry from aaamedsworldwide and he was very helpful in helping me to make sure i didnt get that brand again. You need to specify to the Dr. or if it is refill time, under special notes, let them know you dont want that brand.
Dixiechick
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 637
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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Also I might add to this on the medical alert front...if you are taking any other CP meds you need to be very carefull cause you can stop your resporation responce..this happend to me..I am on the derigisc patch and took 8 in a day and I thoght I was going to croke...so be carefull out there
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living with pain is not living at all.  Boo
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CHEESE
Veteran
Reged: 01/02/02
Posts: 569
Loc: U.S.A.
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YOU GOT TWO CHOICES 1st take a break 4-5 days won't kill you AND 2nd use an OPIATE POTETIATOR (LIKE DXM, ETC..) I WOULD SUGGEST TAKE A BREAK ! We all need a break from our meds once in a while to GET SOME REALITY! I KNOW THE W/D SUCK BUT IT'S SOMETIMES WORTH IT (TRUST-ME) GOOD LUCK , AND I HOPE YOU CHOSE TO TAKE A BREAK (IT'S GREAT FOR YOUR BODY + MIND) IF YOU CHOSE TO TAKE A BREAK AS A FREIND PM ME IF YOU NEED SOME ADVISE OR SOMEONE TO TALK TOO? GOOD LUCK, CHEESE 
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lovepink
Goddess
Reged: 01/01/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: NYC Metro Area
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There's a thread on opiate potentiators here - some way work, some may not...I'm not endorsing the suggestions, just throwing them out there for you.
Good luck!
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Lovepink
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mrmalt
Member
Reged: 06/07/02
Posts: 153
Loc: Texas
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cheese I agree. Kevind I've been there before. I kept thinking that I was getting refills that didn't work because I kept having to take more and more to help my pain. I decided to take a one week break once and at the end of that week I took the meds that I thought weren't working. They ended up working remarkably well after that break. And only had to use half as much as before.
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Everyone have a pain free day!!
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wcs42
Member
Reged: 03/25/03
Posts: 143
Loc: ky usa
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being new to using op"s. iwas wondering if there is a giant difference between brand and generic forms of pain meds . my first script received last week was (norco) brand 10/325. which i have found to be very effective for me. even though more expensive. any feedback appreciated.. ws
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Ben Franklin
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royce
Journeyman
Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 82
Loc: South
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If our stomach cantolerate it, take it with warm liquid, soup, (broth type) not creamy), was food, a small hot snack, like friench fries (or whatever tue PC term for them is these tese. Just plain coffee or tea, or broth should make it work paster, If this upsets you somachach, try a richer warmer dring or soup, Don't ove;oad on food. This makes the medicaton take longer to work. Tea and toast and a hot muffin or a cup of cramy soup may help too. Even hot french fries. Good luck!!! Go for the clearer liquids, even ta od coffee.
royce
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Gottajiboo
My Title Rocks
Reged: 05/01/02
Posts: 988
Loc: ...Chicago...
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I'v e talked to so many people who tell me 10/325's just don't do it for them, Im a strong beleive in 10/650 in fact Ive never even took a norco before and can say that I don't think Im missing much. I was prescribed VP from my doctor (local) and it knoked me on my yeah you know anyway there was something different about the VP that made relief more easy to find and at the same taking taking less APAP. Im thiking you need to up the APAP but not too much I guess it would dpend on how much you take in a days time. I'm off hydro for almost 8 days now, I do it every 6 weeks to bring myself to the fact that one day soon its got to give and Im going to need surgery to fix this problem in the long run (knee) I take it just to get in the shower before work but I cut myself off and not because I was out because I they weren't ''doing it'' for me but when I do go back (soon) Im sure the reilef will be there just as it was sometime ago. my small suggestion try a 10/500 or 10/650 they help me unless you think this might be a tolerance issue, good luck bro... Pm if you have any questions 
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...It's not the size of the hammer It's the nail you're throwing it at...
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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I agree Flip, I like the 10/650's the best also. I've never tried VP, too expensive right now but I really want to. When you take your break, do you use something in it's place? I use Ultram when I'm taking a break from the Hydro, it helps quite a bit.
Also, the comment above about taking the Hydro with a warm bev is a great suggestion. I typically take mine with a carbonated beverage, but coffee is great too. Not all can tolerate that without some food in the tummy though.
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kevind
Journeyman
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 60
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So I guess maybe I should take a break for what 4-5 days? Will I get the same effect if I take ultracet. I mean will the hydro work again if I take ultracet (ultram) in its place. I want to make sure the meds work as I said in the first post, so your suggestions are great keep them coming!
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Klempsch
Newbie
Reged: 11/26/02
Posts: 48
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That's what I do, every few weeks I stop taking hydro and take ultram for a few days. My tolerance doesn't go down as much as if I weren't taking anything at all during those few days, but it does go down. The more times you go through withdrawal, the worse the withdrawal symptoms get, and I can't stand not to take anything. To get all the way off everything without wd's, you just have to taper down a little more each day, and you can get all the way off. (Obviously, the less ultram you take, the more your tolerance will go down -- even though it technically isn't an opiate, it still contributes to tolerance).
I actually searched "Able Labs" and found this thread, because I just noticed that my pharmacy has switched from Mallie to Able, I didn't notice any difference but I wanted to see if anyone knew anything about Able. They seemed OK, but now that I know other people think they suck, they'll seem weaker to me, I know it. Psychology can be a terrible thing.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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4 or 5 days should be adequate, I would think. That's about as long as I can tolerate myself. The Ultracet is Ultram plus Tylenol, so I would think it would be the same. What Klempsch said below makes sense too. Maybe it would be better to take something different all together, but I don't know what it would be. One time I tried just plain Tylenol and it really wasn't adequate at all for pain relief.
What is the opinion of others here? When taking a break from Hydro will Ultram and Ultracet make the break less effective?
Also, Kemp, may I ask what pharmacy changed from Mallies to Able? Want to steer clear of them.
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Klempsch
Newbie
Reged: 11/26/02
Posts: 48
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Legitimate, it was not an OP pharmacy, I get mine locally at Wal-Mart pharmacy. I'm pretty sure it is just a matter of money, they undoubtedly get a better price on the Able and that's why they switched. As for the potency, one way of measuring it, whether Watson, Mallie, Norco brand, etc., is that if I take just one too many 10/325 tablets (a certain number of tablets -- I'd be embarassed to say exactly what that number is), I get nauseated. I tried it with the Ables and sure enough, I got the nausea, so it would seem that they have the same strength/potency.
Has anyone who is finding the 10/325s less effective than 10/650 tried popping a regular strength tylenol along with the 10/325 (raising the APAP level to 650 mg)? Perhaps the extra tylenol would add to the effectiveness??
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Muneca
Journeyman
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 85
Loc: TX
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If you can get it, Torodal or Ketorolac is a great non-narcotic pain reliever and will cut down the amount of Ultram you have to take thus cutting your tolerance even more. When I had mononuecleosis and was in the hospital last year, that is what they gave me IV and I really was suprised how strong it is. You can get a shot of it from your doctor or you can get it online, but you can not take it very long because I believe it's harder on your stomach than aspirin or ibuprophen.
AP
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If you've got melted chocolate all over your hands, you're eating it too slowly!
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mello
Old Hand
Reged: 11/02/02
Posts: 479
Loc: USA
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In my experience, when I have taken Ultram during my hydro break, my tolerance has not went down any. I'm assuming because it binds to the same receptors?? All I know for sure is that I tried it (for two weeks) and when I started taking hydro again, my tolerance was the same as when I stopped.
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mrmalt
Member
Reged: 06/07/02
Posts: 153
Loc: Texas
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Legitimate. This is a note I sent to Kevin telling him of my experience with this.
Here is what I do when I take a break. I take ultram everyday and I get ZERO withdrawls. But....... and it's a big but. LOL. One time when I took a holiday from norco I took way too much of the ultram due to my pain and after about 4-5 days I went back to the norco and it didn't do a stinkin thing. The next time I took it easy. 2 pills everytime I felt pain or withdrawls might come. But no more than 8 a day. By day 7 I was down to 4 a day. On the 8th day I got a new prescription of norco and let me tell you they worked unbelievably. Almost as well as the first time. kid you not. So I hope I was some help to you!!
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Everyone have a pain free day!!
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Well mrmalt that is very interesting! I guess the key is to take it very easy on the Ultram. Thanks a bunch for the follow up!
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ML63
Member
Reged: 02/08/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate New York
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Quote:
Hi all, OK so I just received a new refill and my last one was able labs 10/325 they were super weak, so I called meds123.com and told them on the refill to send watsons. So a couple days ago I got yellow tabs, watsons, 10/325. These too are weak! Does anyone know how to make these things work? I've taken generic watsons 7.5/750 and they are much stronger than this! Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I should just prepare an auto-reply. Just seeing the subect line told me everything. Once again and for the record, hydro 10/325's of any kind are very useless to many. It doesn't happen to everyone, but if you feel that your 10/325's are weak, you're darn right! You're not crazy and it's NOT a tolerance issue. Proof positive? That you can go back to a 7.5/anything and feel much better relief.
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mrmalt
Member
Reged: 06/07/02
Posts: 153
Loc: Texas
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You betcha legit.
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Everyone have a pain free day!!
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Gottajiboo
My Title Rocks
Reged: 05/01/02
Posts: 988
Loc: ...Chicago...
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My last detox bout (ended today) I used nothing and after the stomach problems were gone it wasn't so bad the worst part was waking up in the morning because of the stiffness and the fact that I have meds in my house but just didn't take them. I usually take ultracet when I detox the hydro, I do it for many reasons but some never have and its not easy I wish it was but its good to go thorugh it if you can deal with the side effects. The ultracet worked perfectly and when I went back to lorcet it as powerful as I ever remember it and I do believe that has everything to do with tolerance issues..
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...It's not the size of the hammer It's the nail you're throwing it at...
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MrB
Old Hand
Reged: 12/11/01
Posts: 488
Loc: Rhode Island
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Start using the 10/650 Lorcet as they have always been the most effective for me. OK, if you use a whole bunch then it may be an issue but I used to take 30 mg per day of hydro so the APAP was no big deal.
Really, try the 10/650 and you will see.
MrB
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"I aint fallin for no banana in my tailpipe!"
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Gottajiboo
My Title Rocks
Reged: 05/01/02
Posts: 988
Loc: ...Chicago...
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I couldn't have said it better myself try the lorcet they're hands down the best hydro out there. IMVSO
-P
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...It's not the size of the hammer It's the nail you're throwing it at...
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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I use Lorcet, and they work great. 10mg/650apap. I also use Darvocet for my migraines, but on my good days, I try to take nothing to help with the tolerence issues.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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mastertater
Veteran
Reged: 07/20/02
Posts: 592
Loc: South of USA
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Muneca
Yep Yep! Torodal or Ketorolac is very potent for a non-narcotic (it's an NSAID - the most potent IMO - even stronger than steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs IMO).
I took it for 2 weeks years back when I had to stop taking ultram , and, hydro! It was terrible not having my regular meds but wow Toradol is very very strong - like super
Motrin - like equal to about 2,000mg of Motrin LOL (not that I would know what that much Motrin would be like). If you have musclu-skeletal pain Toradol will stop it all dead in it's tracks. Very blurry vision for me though - worse than Ibuprofen. Thanks for the suggestion .
I've never tried it (Toradol) with Ultram but I think I might if need be in the future. And darn I just got an order from Imported and had meant to get some Toradol but didn't get it. Might have to place it in next order. BTW my doc says Toradol should only be taken for about 2 weeks then stop.
My doc said Toradol isn't safe to take for very long; but it is used a lot for
post-surgical pain where narcotics aren't indicated, needed, wanted or whatever. I'm surprised more people don't talk about Toradol, what with it being as effective as it is.
Oh yeah and I keep a good supply of DarvocetN-100 around in case I run out of Hydro or feel that I need to cut down on Hydro, and cuz sooner or later circumstances will be such that I simply don't have any hydro at all.
Any body ever tried Ultram along with Darvocet in lieu of Hydro??? PM or post if you can provide any knowledge on this one. I'm thinking that Ultram should potentiate if not just activate the Darvocet. For me I can't get by on just Darvocet cuz it makes me a little too lethargic, drowsy or too unmotivated during work or other daytime activity, but Ultram, when I used to take only Ultram really has one of the best "activating" properties (increased alertness)of anything with the exception of Hydro or drugs in the Stimulant class of drugs. Too bad ultram only works on the mu receptor; or then again maybe that is what makes it so good? Thanks!
MT aka Foxfire48
ps I will offer one prize bit of info for those who suffer and struggle with depression and how depression , somewhat like ADD zaps all your strength, energy, concentration and the like. I cannot afford Provigil (U.S. name) or Modafinil as it is known elsewhere, but it is GOOD, just way too expensive, twice as expensive as Ritilin as a rule. However an analoque of Provigil (andrafinil) which is about half the price does provide moderate stimulation. I used it quite a while and figured it really wasnt working but I kept on and found a way to make it work by taking 200mg before bed, and, it forces my out of bed after roughly 7 hours of good sleep (after about 5 hours of sleep I start waking up a little). It's sorta like taking one of the more
stimulating SSRI's like Prozac at bedtime which will take effect (in me and many others I've related this to) after about 6-8 hours, hence waking up is much easier and the mornings are much easier to deal with (mind you I suffer
from refractory depression in addition to chronic physical pain from a car wreck). Thanks Guys!
MT aka Foxfire48
Edited by mastertater (05/15/03 10:31 AM)
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Roller
Journeyman
Reged: 04/03/03
Posts: 84
Loc: California, USA
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try using soma with it. Works for me!
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I've NEVER felt more like myself than I do now...and then...there is tomorrow (if I'm lucky).
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quincy
Board Addict
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 333
Loc: pacific northwest
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You know, Im not criticizing, but when you are detoxing from hydro using Ultram, thats not really detoxing. Thats just replacing one med for another. Yes, ultram is non-narcotic, but has the same properties and quiets those same receptors that are firing off due to withdrawl. Of course I always use Ultram when out of hydro, but its not detoxing! It is just another way to give your body a little break without having to suffer. Detoxing is when you take a total vacation, but I have found that when I have done that, my tolerance comes back quickly anyways, so why stop if you don't have to. If the hydro isn't working and you have a legitimate medical problem, go to a doctor and ask for a longer acting med. That will take care of the problem better than starting and stopping. In my opinion, that puts too much stress on your body.
Sarah
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grizzlypaw
Journeyman
Reged: 02/23/03
Posts: 90
Loc: Show Me State
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Quote:
If the hydro isn't working and you have a legitimate medical problem, go to a doctor and ask for a longer acting med.
Sarah
I thought that's why most of us was here... Because we can't find a doc That will give us the med's we require in the first place... Let alone something that would be stronger or last longer....JMHO...
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Stay as pain free as you can....grizzlypaw
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