bhamdave
Threadhead
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
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FDA proposes warnings for ephedra.
Agency calls for new labels; possible ban still in question.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/878954.asp
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AIDS
It's not YOUR problem (I hope that)
It's not MY problem (I know that)
But it is still OUR problem and WE know that!
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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yeah and H.R. 207, the so-called anti-andro, save our teens, bill is going to permit the DEA to schedule a bunch of OTC nutritional supplements. If anyone cares http://www.USFA.biz has an anti-aging section where one can learn how to petition his or her congressperson to fight this bill. As for the ephedra, what? are they going to burn over Utah, it used to be called "Mormon tea" and grows all over. 
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1494
Loc: MidWest USA
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I have to be honest and say that controlling the sale of ephedrine to at least some degree would actually give me the tiniest little bit of respect for the FDA. I mean, why is tylenol three kept in a safe when you can buy this dangerous, nasty drug that been very clearly linked to sudden death at gas stations and pharmacies in almost every state in the US?
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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this drug isn't any nastier than caffeine, i wonder how many deaths are from caffeine? just not reported cause the coffee industry has us by the b*lls.
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MrB
Old Hand
Reged: 12/11/01
Posts: 488
Loc: Rhode Island
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I'm with you. Epehdra is a nasty drug that people are popping like crazy. I doubt if we know the true long term effects on the body.
I can tell you this, my ex-wife has been taking Metabolife, which contains EPH., and while she has lost a lot of weight fast, she looks like death walking and I have seen others the same way.
Toe, people will put whatever they want in their body then sue anyone they can when something terrible happens. They have no one to blame but themselves.
MrB 
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"I aint fallin for no banana in my tailpipe!"
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CHEESE
Veteran
Reged: 01/02/02
Posts: 569
Loc: U.S.A.
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I have been bodybuilding for five years now (I bench 250lb in sets of 4 -ALL DAY LONG ) I THINK EPHDRA & EPHRENDRINE- ( SYTHETIC DERIVATIVE)IS GETTING A BAD-RAP FROM DOCTORS WHO THINK EVERYONE & ANYONE IS USING IT IMPROPER. I HAVE USED IT OFF AND ON FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS / USING IT CORRECTLY AND GETTING GREAT RESULTS (FAR BETTER ON THE LIVER & BODY THAN CLENBUTERAL OR T3!) I THINK IF USED CORRECTLY IT'S A SAFE DIARETIC/BRONCHODILATOR (WHICH INCREASES BASIL METABOLISM ) YOU JUST HAVE TOO BE SAFE , AND DO THINGS IN MODERATION , JUST LIKE ANY DRUG! BE SAFE & BE HEALTHY , CHEESE 
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MrB
Old Hand
Reged: 12/11/01
Posts: 488
Loc: Rhode Island
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Cheese:
I work out on a regular basis, eatright, drink lots of water, use some vitamins and drink protien shakes but do not feel the need to put stuff in my body so that I can see inflated results. My results come from my hard work and discipline, not drugs.
MrB
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"I aint fallin for no banana in my tailpipe!"
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1494
Loc: MidWest USA
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Quote:
this drug isn't any nastier than caffeine, i wonder how many deaths are from caffeine? just not reported cause the coffee industry has us by the b*lls.
This simply is not true. No perfectly healthy person has suddenly died of a heart attack after drinking a cup of coffee for the first time.
Don't get me wrong. I have taken A LOT of ephedrine. Mostly not even the wimpy diet-product formula, but the 25mg-per-pill dose that they sell bottles of 100 for 6 bucks at truck stops. The reccomended doses on these bottles is 2 pills. In my experience it is a VERY potent diuretic, which is probably why it leaves you half-comatose on the floor 4 hours later with a migraine. I know I'm putting out a no-no here, but IME ephedrine is more potent and has worse side effects than powdered cocaine.
Ephedrine is useful for asthma, but I feel strongly that no one should be taking it except under the care of a physician. The rest of the world, where it is available by prescription at best, realizes this. Why doesn't the US? For the same reason they compound all pain meds with huge amounts of APAP, sell alcohol everywhere, and have only in the past ten years made ANY moves to prevent minor access to tobacco.
There is a lot of money to be made off of those of us who use these substances. And there is money to be saved, too, since they kill us off before the age of retirement.
I am NOT anti-American. If anything I am very much for my country, because I have travelled a lot and had to defend us against the false impressions those who have never visited the US get from our dear Hollywood. But I can't defend our legislation. I can't figure out how to justify, logically, our national policies and attitudes towards drugs, guns, sex. . .
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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Quote:
This simply is not true. No perfectly healthy person has suddenly died of a heart attack after drinking a cup of coffee for the first time.
how do u know this "fact"?
ephedra grows all over desert country. are all the plants going to be eliminated? i am tired of legislation telling me what i can and can not put into my body. i do not like ephedra, i don't like caffeine, i don't like cocaine, and if u've ever been given a nicorette gum and chewed it, u'll wonder why this is a legal drug. but i am very much against being told that i am too stupid to figure out what is best for myself. especially when a lot of this legislation is passed because of dollars changing hands. that is my opinion and i'm sticking to it 
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1494
Loc: MidWest USA
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Quote:
how do u know this "fact"?
Because I am smart.
I smoke cigarettes and I wish to god all the tobacco in this country had been seeded before they started selling me this Best if kept off the board when I was 14 years old.
Note that I have not referred to ephedra, ma huang, or any other plant or herb. I am talking about a drug, called ephedrine.
I'll repeat, it ticks me off that the nastiest, most dangerous drugs are available cheap and easy and legal in this country, whereas the more benign and useful ones like codeine and marijuana are scheduled up the wazoo.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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Ephedrine alkaloids are amphetamine-like compounds with potentially powerful stimulant effects on the nervous system and cadiovascular system. It is not equivalent to caffeine.
They don't make meth out of caffeine, they use ephedrine.
I stand against regulation on principle.
Many things occur in nature that are not suitable, nor well suited for human comsumption. Some are lethal.
I am not arguing with anyone, but stating that you can't really compare ephedra to caffeine.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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yup, people need to take responsiblity for what THEY put into their own bodies, and stop relying on a "government" to protect them, or stop "blaming" a government for what THEY did to themselves. just because tobacco is legal doesn't mean people need to use it, same with alcohol, diet pills, etc. anything.
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Optimus
Stranger
Reged: 02/22/02
Posts: 11
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Whenever I hear about someone dying from Ephedra, it's usually something like, they took 50 pills, or they died of heatstroke like that baseball player, or they were trying to cut weight and weren't drinking any water. The people who died were taking Ephedra, but there were 100 other things that contributed to their deaths. I don't think Ephedra is that dangerous. Ibuprofen can put holes in your stomach, and no one's banning that.
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linkage
Stranger
Reged: 01/17/03
Posts: 17
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I agree the people who have died which are played over and over in the media.....we not taking them properly also how do we know it was the cause of there death it could have been a number of different things......but that was just helping in that way.....I think the media should lay off Ephedra then everyone else will.....
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14stones
Board Addict
Reged: 06/18/03
Posts: 336
Loc: On the beach in California
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I also agree taht it is time for the govt to take a step back from legislating what adults can and can't put into our bodies. I feel that all things should be available to adults if we so desire it. I think that there should be legislation that prohibits minors from legally acquiring it. But that is all. We have become a society that no longer has the right to determine what is best for ourselves. Is it the govs fault or our own for letting it get this way. Its hard to say. What I do know is that as long as alcohol is available for any adult to buy that we are living a lie and a hypocracy. My step father was an alcoholic who used to ball up his fist and beat me so bad that by the time I was 16 and living on my he had broken my nose 4 times. As an adult I have known several people who drink a bit more than socially and ALL of them have run into serious problems because of it. I have also known a couple of friends in college that smoked pot. (I never did and still never had) I never saw the adverse effects their using it but I am sure that there are some. I now have had to start taking pain meds to deal with my medical troubles and with the exception of how hard it is to treat my pain I am the same happy go lucky care free guy that I always have been. My point is (long winded but here it is) that as long as we ask our govt to "police" everything EXCEPT alcohol that we are giving them the right to pick and chose what they think is best for us and that gives them too much power. All things should be made available to adults. Look, we are here getting the medications that we need to treat our pain or other problems because it is difficult to get the meds taht we need elsewhere. The fact is that we still get them. It is the same for everything that a person could want. All that the govt does is regulate the availability. Not the existence of the things they are trying to control. While I was traveling and living in europe I could get whatever I wanted whenever I wanted it. (although I never did do anything except the occasional champaign with a win) Here in the best country on earth we are asking our govt to be our parents instead of making people accountable for their own choices. Sorry about the rant but it is one of those soapbox issues for me.
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Go that way really fast, if something gets in your way.....TURN! Always look on the bright side of life.
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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yeah, and they are pretty disfunctional parents. constantly breaking our noses, read b**ls.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 913
Loc: USA
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It is a bit ironic that alcohol is legal and pot is not. They are both quite addictive. Remember alcohol used to be illegal too way back when. I agree that there is too much big government. I believe our current president campaigned to give more control to the people. What happened to that idea?
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"Every day is a new day I am thankful for every breath I take, I won't take it for granted so I learn from my mistakes. So I trust in love, it gives me peace of mind." POD
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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Yep, I'm ticked about the massive expansion of government that's been pushed on us by the current administration as well. I honestly think Ashcroft is more to blame than Bush, though Bush is equally guilty by being complacent. Part of this was kneejerk to September 11, and now it's just out of control. Our rights have been gradually eroded for decades, but the Attorney General right now is just out of control. And whattya know, still no good candidates to vote for this year! Choice 1, we have the politics of personal destruction. Choice 2, we have the politics of personal destruction. Great.
Now regarding the alchohol/pot thing, it's important to note that alchohol IS physically addictive, and marijuana is NOT. Marijuana however can be strongly psychologically addictive in high risk individuals, but this varies widely by person.
Alchohol on the other hand, if you become physically addicted, you can suffer fatal DT's! Not to mention alchohol is the poison of bad decisions.... marijuana is far less likely to make you go have a one-night stand, unprotected, then get in a fight and beat your wife. The one thing I find is an important exception is that red wine is very good for your heart in moderation. Also, pot is often a one-way ticket to nowheresville when kids start on it, and that's not helping it's cause either.
You know, maybe it would be best if we were accountable for our own decisions on what we did with our bodies ? hmmmm....
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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OK, I have to share this, this just ticks me off.
I just did a quick search for a link to post here, because I know I saw earlier that the wife of the ballplayer that died from cardiac arrest has now officialy filed suit for the usual enormous sum of money.
I did a search for "ephedra lawsuit", expecting to find pretty much just a link to the newest story.
No, what I found was page upon page of trial lawyers offering their services for suing ephedra manufacturers.
Everyone, a big round of applause for personal accountability and frivolous lawsuits! A sure way to guarantee we'll never be able to make our own choices again!
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dollhog
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/06/02
Posts: 291
Loc: the deep deep south
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Sonick,
I completely concur. The way things are going they'll be telling us how many potato chips we can eat each day.
Personally, since it's my life, my body, my arteries, my liver, etc. I figure Big Brother should butt out.
Yet the hypocrisy astounds me.
Alcohol and cigarettes are fine but everything else just about makes you a raving addict!!
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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well i guess that's capitalism at it's finest. and by the way, red wine good for your heart, THC, marinol, pot, good for cancer and AIDS patients. imho the only reason kids "get into" pot is because it's illegal. a whole subculture of us against them is formed and that's always exciting. bah! this land of the free is lawed to death.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 913
Loc: USA
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I agree about the pot issue. I just really did not want to go there in defense of it. You said it well. About the candidates, people really need to get active to get a decent candidate. It has been years since we really have had a decent presidental candidate in my opinion. I don't know where they are digging some of these people up from. People should have more control of what they do without big government all the time. What is making everything illegal going to do except cause us to have to build more prisons and pay for more guards. Talk about another waste of taxpayer $$!
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"Every day is a new day I am thankful for every breath I take, I won't take it for granted so I learn from my mistakes. So I trust in love, it gives me peace of mind." POD
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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Right you are Caramello, I JUST had a huge 3-hour brainstorming session with some of my closest friends last night (this morning) about whether capitalism can exist without corruption.
It's our opinion that capitalism does provide fertile ground for corruption, but the biggest problem is the power-hungry old boys club up there on capitol hill. Somewhere along the line, the ability to make your own dreams come true (capitalist) was tainted with unwavering support for consolidation and conglomeration. We tossed humanitarianism out the window long ago! Well, the rich old politicians did.
Capitalism would work if there were some way to keep checks and balances on the humanitarian aspect of the populus.... but look at what's going on now.... the "American Dream" and small businesses are being buried by huge companies like Wal-Mart. Manufacture everything overseas for dirt cheap, then sell them here in a megastore. We need to get back to corner shops and neighborhood values!
Not sure how to do it, but I'm working on getting filthy filthy rich so I can personally infuse it back into the population in a monitored but very generous manner. That's my dream. Kinda like what Bill Gates should be doing with 60 BILLION dollars in the bank... I dont' care how many millions he's given to charity , he should be flying daily to impoverished families and setting them up for success. He has the right to that money ,but there's no way I could keep 60 Billion dollars in the bank and still have a good conscience. All I need is enough to stay comfy and have a couple toys, the rest I want to infuse back in start a movement against this outsorcing/ROI-at-all-costs BS of a system we have now.
We're slipping!!!!! Fast!
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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Cindy: I knew where you wanted to take it, and understand why you didn't want to be the champion for pot publically, so I'm glad I was able to capture some of what you felt  You're a great person with an unwavering eye on the truth, and I enjoy it very much.
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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Quote:
Not sure how to do it, but I'm working on getting filthy filthy rich so I can personally infuse it back into the population in a monitored but very generous manner.
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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Well then, I know who to contact in Alaska to help bring joy and productivity back in people's lives !
This is my calling, I just spend all night on business plans again. I wasn't meant to sit in a cubicle. I'll be in touch in a couple years, and I hope you'll still be around!
J
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