mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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i've been a member of DB for quite a while but haven't posted much. i was hoping i'd never have to post on this topic. i'll try to be careful in how i word this. received a package today from an australian pharmacy. it was later than usual and i was beginning to worry. when it arrived, it contained 5 empty boxes of N+ along with a small piece of paper from the Customs service informing me that "narcotics and/or contraband" has been seized and i'll be receiving a letter from the penalties, fines and forfeitures branch in the near future. is this how they usually do it? empty out each box and send it on? will i now get a standard seizure letter? do i need to be worried? they have effectively scared me out of ordering abroad again, guess that's their goal. i noticed on the customs declaration that the Rxy declared the package a gift. obviously it's not. could that have ticked them off? i just need to know that there's no jail time on my future. i have a 4 y.o. son and i'm scared.
by the way, i have a script from my MD for T3 and vic but i use N+ as a relief from the apap. don't suppose this matters. thanks in advance for any and all advice, reassurance, and info.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 826
Loc: USA
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You will probably only get a follow up letter. Yes the first seizure notice is really scary. Luckily I haven't gotten more than 1. On my first seizure which was some valium, they sent the package with a note that it was detained by the FDA. A few weeks later they sent a more formal letter giving me some options. The best option is just toss it and call it a loss. Don't try to fight it or you could actually be fined. You may get a final follow up letter letting you know that the meds will be destroyed but that is about it. If anything more was to come of it, you probably would have gotten a visit and not an empty envelope.
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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thank you for your reply. i know i'm not the only one this has happened to but i didn't expect to be this freaked out. i've read every post on this board about seizures but that was before i got one myself. different deal when you're looking at an empty box and that scary little note. i have no intention of fighting this.........in fact they've achieved their goal of scaring the pants off me. no more orders. so i'm assuming your experience ended without incident. no "men in black" knocking on your door. good.
i really didn't think they would bother themselves with N+. it's such a minor product. really petty on their part. the empty boxes were a bit insulting also. ok, so i'll mellow out and wait for the next letter, try to stop myself from looking out the window everytime i hear a car door and chalk this up to a lesson learned.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 826
Loc: USA
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No I don't think the MIBs are coming at all, so just chill.  You will get a follow up or possibly 2 follow up letters like I did, just don't respond to them, I shreaded mine. If anything more was to come of this, they would have already showed up. I won't use that particular iop again because they put all your credit card info with the purchase, so if something was to come of it, you couldn't deny it. That really bothered me.
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daddyj
Board Addict
Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 367
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They're right. If they were going to be coming, they wouldn't have sent the letter, they would just have made a controlled delivery and arrested you when you got the package, so don't worry about it.
As far as ordering N+ again, I think you would be reasonably safe ordering as long as it's small quantities. Since that probably doesn't ease your concerns much, I might suggest some alternatives. This site: http://adhpage.tripod.com/coldwater.htm details how you can use cold water extraction to remove the APAP from pills, so that you're left with hydro and no apap. Otherwise, if your doctor prescribes Vicodin, then perhaps you can convince him to prescribe you a small amount of Vicoprofen (it's available in generic form now) and reduce your regular Vicodin prescription by the same amount. Most people say that a 7.5/200 vicoprofen is as effective or more effective than a 10/325 Norco.
good luck,
J.
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Misty morning, clouds in the sky
Without warning, the wizard walks by
Casting his shadow, weaving his spell
Funny clothes, tinkling bell
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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ok - i've calmed down today. thanks for your help. i'm thinking what i'll do is place an order for other products (toothpaste, lotions, etc.) with the same pharmacy and see if that one arrives unscathed. so far, the idea of being put on a "LIST" after a seizure seems to be in debate so i'm curious to see if another package with the same info would get throught. that was the first time i ordered 5 boxes, maybe that's too many in their heads. i'm also thinking maybe it had something to do with the customs declaration saying that the contents were a gift. why would i get a gift from a pharmacy? maybe they'd be better off checking "goods". nonetheless, i'll be taking a break for a while.
thanks for the extraction idea. i've never tried it but it sounds simple enough. i'm hesitant to bring up alternatives with my MD. afraid he may have a change of heart about the whole deal. i see him only once a year so maybe i'll bring it up next time.
thanks again for your info and advice. i definitely feel better today.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 826
Loc: USA
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I have seen the list theory debated back and forth so I am really not sure about that. I can tell you that I waited a little over a month and ordered from iops without any problem and I used my same name and address. I am also really careful about who I order from. I make sure the feedback is good and that people are receiving their orders. I do ebay a lot(too much) so the postman or postoffice is pretty used to me getting packages from different places. In short I am not on any list I am aware of.
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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OH a fellow eBayer!!! yes, i too indulge too much. i sell things too but seem to turn right around and spend it on something else. easy come easy go.
for the past year, at least, i've only ordered from MM and the australian pharm in question. their packaging is impeccable and the products are benign, i thought. i miss some of the other stuff (V) but i figure i've pushed my luck as far as i should. i'll lay low for a while now until i feel comfy testing the waters again. maybe five boxes is the magic number to get nailed. i'll let you know how my test package does.
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scissorhands
Member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Hell
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Mona: I'm a big ebayer also and have ordered from an IOP(received one today that I only ordered Monday) in AU and have had great success(knock on wood)...You can PM me if you want and I give you the name, it could be one and the same, but I don't think so because they are very discreet as to what they write on the outside package...Now I may have to invest in a Paper Shredder...
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Baseball is wrong...Man with four balls cannot walk!
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 826
Loc: USA
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Yes, I buy more than I sell too sadly. I am starting a new job tomarrow thank goodness so it will keep me away from the computer for a while.
From that Australian place, I never order more than 2 boxes at a time. I think small and infrequent is the key. Large and many international orders tend to attract attention. Since last year I have not had any more seizures but I don't order very often and if and when I do, the order is small.
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mikej578
Newbie
Reged: 05/06/03
Posts: 27
Loc: Southwest
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I just wanted to comment about the "list" theory. My very first order from an IOP was siezed, I received the "love letter" and a follow up; I ignored both. About a month later, I decided I would try again, from the same exact IOP. My order came through, to the same address. I used them 7 or 8 more times, all came through. One package was opened, inspected, and the items were sent on to me (every order was for the same thing). So, if there is a "list" out there, it isn't very effective.
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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i'm tend to agree with the general consensus that the list does not exist. as far as i know, customs picks out packages randomly to be searched/seized so the theory that every package is somehow examined or scanned seems like way too much work. i find it hard to believe that they could be on the lookout for particular names or addresses. from what i've read here, people seem to get subsequent packages without any trouble. now's a time when having a friend who's a customs agent would come in handy, unless they're sworn to secrecy or something. i'm finding myself in need of placing another order (thanks to uncle sam) but, despite all i've said, i think i'll wait a while. i've placed a test order of misc. bath goodies from the same AU pharm, so we'll see what happens there. i think the trick is to order small.
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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we need a secret eBay handshake.  i can't figure out how to PM so i'll be super sly and spell out the name in code - ph*r**cyonl*ne.com.au. more and more i think it was just dumb luck that i got nailed. this OP's packaging is great, including a bright orange sticker that says "ID Verified." looks totally on the level and official (which it is). again, just dumb luck. it's no fault on the pharmacy's part that our customs agents are rabid. i hope they don't stop sending here because of losses.
my hubby's take on it is that we should be glad there are agents on the take because they'll want us to continue ordering for their own supply. hence, they won't bust everyone but they can get their needs met. sounds great but i'm still out money and merchandise.
if you can PM me i'm curious who you've been using. i live on the west coast, by the way. i know location has an impact on your chances of getting seized. and, like cindy198 mentioned, ordering small amounts is safer. i was a bit overconfident and ordered five boxes, one more than usual. altho, the box this time was actually smaller than last time - go figure.
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scissorhands
Member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Hell
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Mona: Love the idea of a secret handshake..I'm sure it the same IOP...I'm had great luck with them and order only two boxes at a time...Tried to PM you but it says you aren't excepting PM's...It's a setting you have to set on "My Home"...
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Baseball is wrong...Man with four balls cannot walk!
Edited by scissorhands (08/04/03 09:26 PM)
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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we'll have to work on that handshake - maybe cindy198 will have some ideas.
i'm sure my biggest mistake was that i got greedy. from now on i'll keep orders at two boxes. btw what do they charge for shipping on a small order? their prices are so much lower than anyone else it probably doesn't matter, but i'm curoious.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 868
Loc: usa
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two boxes of 48 tabs, about $5.45....I only order 2 boxes at a time & have never had a prob...have actually had them openend by customs & sent on...if you can believe that...so sorry for this experience...it must be unsettling....you'd think the govt would have better use for these "agents" at this point in history than to worry about 12.8 mg of codeine coming from a friendly ally..Geez...don't get me started!
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scissorhands
Member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Hell
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mona: two boxes(48ct) runs total $23.05 that includes shipping...
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Baseball is wrong...Man with four balls cannot walk!
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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thanks to you and IMSUSCOT1 for the price info. it's still the best deal in town. and, yes, after the initial shock i've finally settled into a lingering rage and disgust at the crimes perpetrated by our government in the name of "public safety." they weren't on my guest list to begin with but now i'm even more fed up. oops, i guess i got started.....sorry
btw - no behavior modifying letter yet. gee i hope it comes soon before i do something that really matters!!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mona -- There is a reason I consistently refere to it as the *CRIMINAL INJUSTICE* system. After spending over ten years working in Probation and Parole Departments, I became convinced that the entire system had more to do with full employment for lawyers and constant ego massages for judges, than with truth, justice and the American way. I had more sympathy for the LE officers, who gave up their free time to sit in the hall outside the court for hours waiting never to be called to testify. Even though I often disagreed with their value systems, they were the ones making the potentially dangerous stop at 3AM Saturday, while the judges and lawyers (and PO's) were sleeping soundly.
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Caveman6666
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 218
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
I had more sympathy for the LE officers, who gave up their free time to sit in the hall outside the court for hours waiting never to be called to testify. Even though I often disagreed with their value systems, they were the ones making the potentially dangerous stop at 3AM Saturday, while the judges and lawyers (and PO's) were sleeping soundly.
Maybe it's different where you live, but here the LE officers are on shift or OT when in court.
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 826
Loc: USA
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I like the idea of the ebay handshake or needs to be a hand slap in my case!
The online pharmacy that you guys are referring to is the same one I have used with no problems. I just limit myself to two boxes, nothing big. I think in your case it was just luck of the draw and in mine also. You can imagine how many packages go through customs each day,they certainly I think are not going to look up names with each package. Could you imagine how backed up they would be then?
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Maybe it's different where you live, but here the LE officers are on shift or OT when in court.
You're probably right, Caveman. It's been over 25 years since I was "an officer of the court." Cops probably were on OT or getting comp time -- still seemed like a waste to spend all those hours sitting around. Ofcourse, I got a summons for jury duty today and I won't get anything for all that sitting around [except the shock on the judges's face when I explain that I'm very knowlegeable about the Fully Informed Jurors act]. Hope I get on a drug case
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mona
Newbie
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 47
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please explain what LE is. i totally agree with everything you said. i have an architect friend who makes quite a nice living doing construction defects work. several times a month he sits in deposition all day (at $600.00 per hour) being drilled by the attorneys for the construction companies that screwed up. after all is done, all parties are instructed to destroy all of their case material (he doesn't) so it can not be used again for another case. when the next case comes up, all the lawyers reinvent the wheel and present exactly the same evidence that may have given just a month before. this happens over and over again and usually the costs exceed the original cost of building. very ridiculous and highly lucrative.
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dollhog
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/06/02
Posts: 289
Loc: the deep deep south
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LE is Law Enforcement.
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