treezat
Journeyman
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 50
Loc: southeast US
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you have my sympathies friend. my best friends dad has 3 crushed vertebrae and missing cartilege.
you also have my sympathies because you seem very addicted to your medicine. you cant live without it. you are so addicted to your medicine you believe that it is better then the naturally occuring systems. does that really make sense to you? If that was so, why were you not born with oxycontin production glands in your brain? The chemicals only interact in the system that is already there. If you had sufficient dopamine the pain messages would be blocked and you would not be so easily agitated, because dopamine is 100x more powerful at providing pain relief then oxycontin or any other opiate.
if you dont believe me please feel free to contact NIMH, Johns Hopkins University Bayview Medical center, University of Maryland medical program and research studies involving endoraphins and the processes in the brain. I'm not doubting your need for the medicine at all, and I am not suggesting you stop taking it, however you immediately defended your sacred medicine, does this not show you how dependant you are? Do you really like that?
I am suggesting that if you would take care of your body by providing the essential vitamins, minerals, and ammeno acids it needs to fuel its natural processes including relieving pain and healing itself, that perhaps your suffering would be eased.
So please, continue to worship and depend on your sacred medicine, while it slowly but surely groes less and less effective and you must increase the doses more and more. please, be my guest to continue along that path and have toxic liver shock from opiate overdose because you are so doped up you forget you already took your medicine today. It might not happen to you but it has happened to millions of opiate patients in the world.
And finally, if the medicine were truly good for you, do you think you liver would be fighting it constantly processing it out of your body as a TOXIC POISON?
In the universe I live in, natural processes are the result of inconcievable eons of evolution, precisely designed to be the way they are.
May you be well 
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trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 142
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nevermind
trix
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timberland
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
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Quote:
YEs reading up on how the various dopamine receptors (primaririly mu(u) and kappa(k1) plus 12 others are BLOCKED by pain killers like oxy and morphine makes for good reading. the main difference between oxy and morph is that oxy is not rendered 70-80% into inert or ineffective substances like morphine is , when taken orally.
and i AM ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT NO AMOUNT OF SUPPLIMENT/CLEAN LIVING WILL PUT CARTALIGE BACK INBETWEEN MY VERTEBREA.
lOOK UP "pRINCIPLES OF DRUG ACTION 2, fALL 2000" BY jACK dErUITER. Sorry caps. I found if from a link on the DB last week
Yikes, guys, endorphins are different than dopamine! Endorphins are small polypeptides that bind to opiate receptors (mu, delta, kappa). Binding to opiate receptors inhibits the neurons that carry the receptors. In a part of the brain called the ventral tegmental area, there are neurons that inhibit dopamine input to a place called the nucleus accumbens. Opiates and endorphins shut down this inhibition and let dopamine flow freely, which gets you high or at least makes you want to take more.
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treezat
Journeyman
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 50
Loc: southeast US
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precisely. thanks so then you would agree timberland that having a fully ready supply of necesarry amino acids fatty acids and vitamins and minerals to fuel the pain allievating process that your body naturally takes may in fact help relieve your pain more efficiently?
I suppose it just seems rational to me that the processes would be more efficient if we are making sure the necesarry depleted fuels and refilled and readily available when called upon again.
basically your pain killing medication can be more efficient, and your overall well being improved simply by adding a few inexpensive dietary supplements.
I dont work for an herb store but I do speak from experience in saying that if you treat your body well with supplements, vitamins, diet, and excersize where possible, you will find your overall well being improved and that you rely less on chemical medications, or that your dosages are more efficient.
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getonline33
Stranger
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 4
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What you say about Dopamine levels make no sense. You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, opiate impact the dopamine neurotransitters, but they don't INCREASE the production of them; rather, they DECREASE the production as the feedback loop from the receptors to the production system are fooled by the optiates blocking the receptors.
Naturally increasing neurotransmitters (taking 5HTP for boosting serotonin production) won't have the effect of narcotics, because there's no drug artificially blocking the receptors (which in turn increases the dopamine in the synapse..THAT causes the high from opiates).
According to what you are saying, the production of additional Dopamine will fill the receptors...you're right, that will reduce pain. However, the dopamine production will decrease because the feedback look is telling the production system that there is too much dopamine present - stop producing more dopamine. In opiate users, this marks the beginning of tolerance, since the system continues to adapt and build tolerance to the outside agent (the opiate). Chronic pain relief from natural endorphins and dopamine production is not possible, since the system will adapt, and reduce neurotransmitter levels. What you say may be true with short term pain relief, but that doesn't help with those suffering from chronic pain (and it doesn't help those who are rationalizing opiate use with any pain they might have).
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parg
Journeyman
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 60
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and thats just the start of what opiate addiction will do, after you stop the levels will comeback 10fold all at once and bang your in WithDrawal!!! That is what a surge in dopamine level will get you.
Parg...
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trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 142
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I don't know how all this works, cept I have tried most every alternative under the sun. And believed it would work...surprised and disappointed when it didn't. I am still open to new ways to approach my pain management. It is something that I continually search for each and every day.
Want me to name everything that I have tried?
Not all alternatives work for people; some people/cper's need pain medication to work/function and to live life.
I am one.
I am not into chemistry, I just know what works and what hasn't.
trix
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treezat
Journeyman
Reged: 05/22/04
Posts: 50
Loc: southeast US
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just to be technically correct getonline33, I wasnt saying at any point opiate medicines increase dopamine levels, if i did my apologies. It is well known and your doctor will tell you when you use opiate medicines your body slacks on dopamine production. also any doctor worth their salt will tell you 1 dopamine edoraphin has the pain alleviating potential of 100x that of morphine.
read between the lines. This series of posts is to AID opiate users. the supplements are taken IN ADDITION TO your opiate medicine. thus with the increased levels of dopamine from the prescene of necesarry amino acids, your ain medications become mroe effective or return to their former effectiveness.
lets go by just how you said it, for example. the opiate blocks the receptor site allowing for more dopamine in the synapse, causing the high, pain alleviating feeling. IF you had say twice as much dopamine for your brain/body to attempt to put into the receptor sites, then there would be twice as much floating around in the synapse when you take you pain meds and hopefully by some small miracle your pain will be less
I am not trying to advocate alternate therapy in place of opiate therapy. I am trying to advocate taking care of your body and its natural processes so your medicines are more effective and your bod has the fuels it needs to help attempt to heal itself, and so people live in less misery.
please forgive me if my comments seem posted in haste or ignorance, for my true goal is to help people help themselves in and on every dimension possible.
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dsack
Veteran
Reged: 01/20/02
Posts: 543
Loc: midwest
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I know that if I'm out working, and eat descent, my meds have a much stronger effect than if I were to just stay home. I'm positive that if I were to give-in, and just sit in the house, the meds I'm currently taking wouldn't be enough anymore. Keep the blood flowing as much as you can.
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FyErMoN
Journeyman
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 75
Loc: Midwest
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What'scooken good looken? lol Greetings from Kentucky (Southern gebt. here). Anyway , i am disabled ,broke my back in a FF accident 10 years ago....sigh.. I smoked MJ many years and it helped....until my get this "Best" friend ratted me out for growing it....anyway..i take 4 7.5 Lortab 7.5 a day and also tolerance has tremendously plagued me. I have Drg. disc disease and some days would rather be dead.. Anyway,,do keep in touch w/me.
I am a 40 y/o male and HAT the state of kentucky....Lets elope to FL.LOl , i tease ....i hope you condition improves and will Well take care and Mssg. me if ya get bored...Peace FyErmoN in Lex Ky area. "Rescue ne!!!!!!!!!!!!"lol *Toodles*
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I_love_Jesus
Stranger
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 12
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looks like someone has some oxycontin. SURE AINT ME!
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vastchoirs
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 287
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Hi all,
I have been bouncing around to different medications..from Kadian...to oxycontin to methadone and now MS contin. I am trying to find the right meds to help with pain. The Methadone did help but, I just couldn't concentrate on it no matter what.
One thing, is I find myself nowhere near how I used to be. I find that I am depressed not only because VERY bad things and bad luck has been in my life the past 3 years. But, I read everyone saying with the proper amount of vitamins, amino acids, etc would help fight pain better, but can help with shall I say "feeling" better. Not being as depressed, and I used to work out and have energy so, having that back as well would be great.
Can anyone or does anyone have what amount of the above one should take to help get all those things back? I have stayed away from anti-depressants because I believe they screw you up more in the long run than help...
I am on the medication because I have 1 herniated disc that has now almost completely collapsed, no disc...bone against bone. Also, a bulging disc which I am sure is herniated now one disc abover the other...L4-L5 blown disc at L5-S1 with severe arthritis. Also,having same pain at mid thorax which I have not addressed yet.
Thanks in advance.
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Greg99
Stranger
Reged: 12/15/04
Posts: 7
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I was wondering how I go about asking my doc for These without asking him I don't want to sound like I am desperate but I am. The Tylenol #3's I get for my knee pain just does not to the job, if I say to him I need something stronger than codeine because it's not work what do you think he would prescribe without uping the codeine.
Thanks
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Listvoer
Old Hand
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 447
Loc: New America
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well... it'd probably be one of the signs of the apocolypse if your doc took you off T3s and put you right onto OxyContin.. he might bump you up to T4s or maybe hydrocodone, but beyond that I wouldn't expect much. If he thinks T3's are basically apropriate for you, he's not likely to give you that kind of jump in potency. That's like going from firecrackers to dynamite (and the oxy IS dynamite, not as in dy-no-mite goooood, but as in BOOM you're playing with a dangerous and quickly addictive drug that has a tolerance that builds so fast your head may spin.) Good luck in your quest for relief....
L
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dsack
Veteran
Reged: 01/20/02
Posts: 543
Loc: midwest
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If the codeine you're taking were making your stomach upset(a VERY common side-effect), your doctor would probably switch you to hydrocodone instead.- wink,wink,nudge,nudge.
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nickiea
Stranger
Reged: 01/15/02
Posts: 5
Loc: AR.
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I wanted to respond to your post because I also was on oxycontin 40mg 3xdaily & am now on mscontin. My pain doctor has me on 60mg 3xdaily but I only take it 2x's a day because it makes me so sleepy. Do you have that problem.Thanks Nickiea
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NFR
Newbie
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 32
Loc: U.S NorthWest
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Trixie , Like you I dont completely understand how the brain works or dont work when it comes to pain releif ,however I believe that you do know what you feel and to sit around and suffer in terrile pain waiting for your brain to provide pain releif for it is not good advice. I say listen to what makes you comfortable not some convaluted brain chemistry babble ! Even the brightest among us dont fully understand the brain and pain releif ,or someone would come up with a drug with the pain relieveing abilities of opiates without the tolerance or dependance problems associated with opiates ! There is even some among us who's brains never did provide enough natural endorphins ,and thats why some first time drug users say they actually felt "normal" for the first time in their life after taking a opiate pain killer !
Take Care NicRic
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