CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 275
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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Codiene is a narcotic, Ultram is not.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 587
Loc: Chicago
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WHats a "Narcotic"? Narcotic is a term that originally means sleep or stupor inducing. the DEA calls all sorts of drugs by the term "Narcotic" and by its definition benedryl could certainly be a narcotic. I think you either mean tramadol is not an opioid, which is wrong, or you meant tramadol is not derived from the morphine-like chemical structure that semisynthetics are, and in that case youd be right. methadone is also an opioid that is chemically unrelated to the opiates and their semisynthetics. it is very powerful opioid though.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 587
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
I'm curious, if Tramadol's theraputic effect is similar to Codeine in potency, and it is acknowledged that it has potential for dependence and withdrawl, why is it not a Scheduled controlled substance?
Well, dependance and withdrawal doesnt seem to be an issue in if it should be controlled, look at paxil and others.
tramadol was reviewed by some board, i forgot which, whoever reviews these sorts of things, and they decided not to make it controlled. When one takes tramadol the onset is drawn out over like 2 hours, so you go from no opioid activity, to its full potential in 2 hours or so. with hydrocodone and oxycodone, once the onset begins, you go up to its full effects in like 15 minutes, so theres more of the "rush" factor. like 7 or 8 times more if you go by how long the onset is. In the prescribing info monograph of tramadol it notes:
Quote:
Part of tramadol's activity and some extension of the duration of µ-opioid activity. Delayed µ-opioid activity is believed to reduce a drug's abuse liability.
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woolius
Member
Reged: 02/08/02
Posts: 167
Loc: US
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From what research I've done, you can become physically dependant on Tramadol, but you don't get the "high" or "rush" associated with opiods such as hydro or oxy. In fact, Tramadol will counteract any opiods taken within a certain time range. The percentage of cases where people have become dependant on Tramadol is so much lower than opiates and I don't see this drug being listed as a controlled substance in the near future. You have to seriously take large amounts of tramadol for an extended amount of time to become dependant. This is true of any medication. Medication in moderation is the key. I take 150mg of tramadol a day and know better than to stop "cold turkey".
Speaking of a drug that is difficult to get off of, Effexor is a nasty one. It's taken me 18 months to go from 450mg down to 150mg. Talk about nasty withdrawal side effects...
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 587
Loc: Chicago
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and tramadol withdrawal may be a bit like effexor withdrawal combined opioid withdrawal since one of the mechanisms also involves reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin. of course its not going to be just like effexor just because they both reuptake NE and 5-HT, the brain has many different sites and areas and drugs that have the same mechanism usually only have similar, but not the exact same effects.
Ive gotten dependant on tramadol from 50 mg a day only. It hits me harder than hydro or oxy, except for the little 15 -30 minute peak of hydro and oxy. only during that short peak are the other opioids stronger than tramadol. All other times, tramadol is much stronger. never tried time released for the others.
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woolius
Member
Reged: 02/08/02
Posts: 167
Loc: US
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One thing I really like at tramadol is that it's not combined with other medications, such as tylenol. While tylenol may be okay for short-term use, I wouldn't want to take it long-term.
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iris
Stranger
Reged: 05/26/04
Posts: 7
Loc: rocky mountains
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I have read that tramadol is used as an antidepressant in parts of Europe. Does it have any SSRI effects? Just curious. I try to go back and forth from Ultram to hydro's. Makes my hydros last longer and definetely helps with hydro withdrawal. No "buzz" from them, but thats OK. They definately help me with the chronic pain in my back. I also think its a muscular/skeletle pain reliever. Doesn't work for headaches, toothaches etc. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong. My PM doc would rather give me percocet than ultram. He said "They are too addicting". Go figure.
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lowell
Stranger
Reged: 08/01/02
Posts: 16
Loc: Northeast
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Can anyone confirm that kratom works to help WD's?
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MR7point5
Stranger
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 19
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I agree with Tone, i became addicted to Tramadol and take a kinda high dose in the morning and it last all day,blows away any hydro i took,and with all the op confusion you can get #100 50Mg of Tramadol at Nonformulary.com for $56.00 Total.With great S/H
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 37
Loc: a nice place to live
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Hi,
I have a lot of experience with this medication and have heard that it is being considered by manufacturers to be released as an antidepressant. Relatedly, for those who cannot tolerate regular anti-depressants (they make me hyper like you would not believe), this is one med that can be helpful.
Now, you need to be careful with taking this if you are on any other anti-depressant. There may be other cautions. However, it is easy to tell if you are taking too much and may be approaching a seizure. If there is difficulty swallowing at all, stop taking it immediately and let it wear off. And DO NOT use alcohol with this drug as you will likely seizure.
Coming off... I heard it is recommended to use benzos, in particular klonopin. I think the folks who have a bad time with it are those who take a lot... I'd never recommend that. Better to come all the way off and then begin again if it helps you.
Anyway, I believe that the anti-depressant effects are much more effective than pain reliever. Check into this one... it may be coming onto the market in a new way before you know it. It may not be powerful, but it lifts your mood. PM me if you need more info... glad to help
Skytalker
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 37
Loc: a nice place to live
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Hi Again,
The posts here about other meds are interesting. I have had a theory for a long time that almost ALL meds are "addictive" in the sense that there is withdrawal. Someone here talked about effexor wd being bad and I agree... I have seen it. And there IS a craving for it, because the person I knew who was prescribed this med got really manic and happy when taking too much! So, she'd go on shopping sprees.
If the recommendation for the med says "do not wd immediately", I consider it to be physically addicting. There is something wrong with all of this... drug companies perking docs to push certain meds (like who would ever rather have a patient take percocet than tramadol... the acetominophen rips up your stomach and the percodan is a narcotic... ridiculous). Of course, taking too much is too much, but at least tramadol has that seizure thing to kind of keep use in control and it does not have much of that "get high" thing. One just feels less painful and less depressed.
One day, if this world is still here, they'll figure it out and do the right thing. Right now, though, we are all on our own and it is good to help each other with experiences and solutions as often no one else will.
skytalker
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 37
Loc: a nice place to live
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Very, very good... 5 stars the way it should be. PM for questions.... sunny day... need info, I got it (still trying not to be a stranger... how many posts does it take...I hate being denoted as a stranger, it is awful)
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BentRover
Stranger
Reged: 10/05/04
Posts: 8
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I've used this medication for quite a while now, myself. I had a couple of surgeries in my past that have led to chronic pain.
What I learned first is that tramadol is fantastic for depression, as mentioned above. However, I don't think it would be fair to limit it to that label--it gives me an outgoing attitude, confidence, energy, and patience. Without it, a nasty combination of lack of energy, basic pessimism, climbing levels of pain, and reclusiveness rule the day.
So, tramadol is a wonder drug, as far as I'm concerned. I take too much; sometimes I take up to 16 50mg pills per day. I used Hydro after one of my back surgeries for about 4 months, and I quit cold turkey; a miserable day that was, with joint pain, runny nose, diarrhea and an otherwise "death would feel better," feeling. When I'm out of tramadol, it's a bad feeling too. Jittery, pain comes back, can't sleep, miserable outlook.
The reason for the difference is that when the tramadol is gone, I get the pain back (I've dealt with pain) but I also have my personality taken from me. The part of me that wants to be outgoing and active and productive dies. I want to lay in my bed, read, hurt, and waller around in misery.
As far as prices; I tried the overseas one; got the tramacaps. They were weaker in my opinion; took six or seven of them to equal 4 "377," pills which is what my doc usually gives me. But, the ones you get from nonformulary (which, by the way, is directly connected to sisterpharmacy and netrxforless.com if I'm not mistaken; in other words, don't think you can order from one and then get more pills from another; they're all over it) are fantastic, if not better, than "377" ones. By the way, the VA gives 377s out in my area to vets requiring tramadol and no other, as far as I know.
I guess I just wanted to get my opinions out here as I have been very interested in tramadol and studying it; it is now a necessary part of my life, and I truly am thankful for what I does for me and my performance (and my outlook on life). I have maintained a very active and successful life while on it, so I don't see it as a typical downward-spiral drug, whether addictive or not.
And as addictions go, I'm addicted to sex, boxing, porn, working out, my computer, certain songs and videos by Gwen Stefani (mmmmm), and anything and everything to do with the little-celebrated actress, Jane March (God made her, and he had his A game on that day).
Thanks.
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rkb
Board Addict
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 309
Loc: where it's warm and sunny
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But, the ones you get from nonformulary (which, by the way, is directly connected to sisterpharmacy and netrxforless.com if I'm not mistaken;" They're not related sites, although I don't know if they use the same pharmacy. I know that non-formulary and netrxforless don't cross each other.
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BentRover
Stranger
Reged: 10/05/04
Posts: 8
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Ok, that's why I included the qualifying statement, "...if I'm not mistaken..." yet the point still stands; try to order from the two at the same time, then see what happens.
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plazo
Journeyman
Reged: 12/24/01
Posts: 75
Loc: USA
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Tolerence to tramadol is likely to become a problem to regular users. Same is true for Prozac, but tram has that scary risk of seizures at high doses.
When i take codeine during the day, I often find that Tram works well at night as a sleeping pill (codeine sleep is restless and nightmarey for me). Other than that, I don't much like the serotonin effect of T (which I think is primarily what causes the buzz or whatever that some people like). Works okay for certain kinds of back pain sometimes.
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rkb
Board Addict
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 309
Loc: where it's warm and sunny
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I know of those who have ordered from doctorscripts.com are ok.
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sharpie1
Newbie
Reged: 06/01/02
Posts: 40
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... I take 1 or 2 tablets 4 times a day. I am like a lot of others here in that the Tramadol does work for me and I have gotten to the point that I much prefer it over the opiates (Norco). I've also discovered that you will not get that narcotic buzz from opiates if you are regularly using Tramadol.
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jasonbisdead
Stranger
Reged: 08/16/04
Posts: 5
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This thread is to talk about Tramadol as a medicine and how it works
This thread is not to discuss who offers. There are other forums for that.
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rkb
Board Addict
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 309
Loc: where it's warm and sunny
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www.doctorscripts.com is another pretty cheap one and www.onlineprescriptionservice.com has to be the cheapest.
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jazee
Journeyman
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 56
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I was suprised how cheap and easy it is to get Tramadol in from domestic OPs that don't require records - because it's not a controlled substance (but as most agree probably should be at least a class IV controlled substance.)
I've found it to be much better than taking the Tylenol+Codeine+Caffeine OTC stuff I was picking up when I visited Canada once or twice a year. I had some Tylenol 3's but the amount of Codeine in those was making me nauseated and sleepy. I've never taken Hydrocodone before but it amazes me most say Tramadol is more effective as I always though Hydro was some seriously potent stuff. The Tramadol at 50mg although effective doesnt seem 'potent'
I'd say I take 50mg of Tramadol once, ocassionally twice a day about 2 days a week on average for various moderate pain (bad headache, great for hangovers, back/neck pain, etc.) It works good, has little side effect, and I don't think I've experienced any significant withdrawl if I take it a couple days in a row - but I could be overlooking that. The anti-depressant effects are also kind of a bonus but I can't say if I really noticed those effects as they are supposed to be mild and secondary to the pain relieving effects, especially at only 50mg.
I have think possible though I've been getting headaches/body aches a little more often than normal. Could me imagining things though. But the withdrawl symptoms have been decribed as flu-like including headache so I'm wondering if taking 50mg twice a day for 1-2 days can produce withdrawl symptoms during the following days when not taking it? Or do you need to consistently take it for longer than a couple days?
If withdrawl can occur even in short spurts, then it's a double edged sword, gives short-term relief but you have to pay a small price of feeling less than optimal the following day or two that you use it. Pretty much every effective drug is like this though. Anyone else just use this stuff in spurts experience any significant negative after effects?
One thing that cracked me up is I ordered 90 tablets and got a reminder notice to order a refill prescription 30 days later. The OP's obviously have no problem pushing this stuff hard.
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dsmmcm
Old Hand
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 410
Loc: southwest US
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Quote:
But the withdrawal symptoms have been described as flu-like including headache so I'm wondering if taking 50mg twice a day for 1-2 days can produce withdrawal symptoms during the following days when not taking it?
It would be very hard to believe that you're experiencing tramadol withdrawal. You're on a very low dose. A couple of days a week at 1-2 50 mg pills is nothing to worry about. Tramadol is widely used in Europe, where the doses are typically twice what is prescribed here in the US.
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 37
Loc: a nice place to live
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Withdrawal symptoms.... you know you are in for it when you start getting nervous after several hours of not taking it. Gotta taper and then you'll be ok. Cold turkey sucks... very nervous and benzos do not help much (even though benzos with a certain green type plant product are effective).
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 37
Loc: a nice place to live
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I think there is a mild serotonin reuptake, but the combo of that with the norepinephrine reuptake is what makes it different. I cannot take serotonin reuptake antidepressants at all. They all make me extremely hyper. This one is mellow, but just do not take too much or you'll be up to many a day.
I am like the guy above who functions well on it. But, I am naturally hyper and need not be speeded up.
Effexor... you can have that one... bet you that comes out as dangerous one of these days.
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venus2MARS
Stranger
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 7
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I hope this doesn't come accross as too stupid a question, and something I should of read as part of the indoctrination posts for the site... anyway -- here goes. first my background problem, then the question.
I took trmadol and it cleared up a sore neck I occasionally get from an old inujury, that normally results in a bad stiff neck for about a week. It appears to be something that would be perfect for me to keep around for this occasional problem.
Of course, no doc. will every give anything for what they percieve as a "take some advil" type condition, and I hate the "hinting and begging" feeling at a doctors office -- so I refuse to even bother anymore.
Anyway, here is my dumb question: since this is not a sch. controlled drug, does this make it legal for me to order it from a NROP? Or, is it still a grey area potential legal risk.
Any info. would be much appreciated. Sorry if this is a repeated question -- but I haven't been reading the board that long.
-- Venus
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ikestormu11
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 253
Loc: D.C. area
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Tramadol isn't scheduled under the Controlled Substance Act, however some states have imposed there own version of scheduling for tramadol. So you would need an RX in order to obtain it in particular states. Ordering from a NROP isn't illegal . Scheduled or not, you can LEGALLY order from NROP's.
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