mizzzj
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Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 235
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
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Reluctantly I am gathering together medical records because of all the latest bs with the no record OPs going under.
I have had many doctors, would rather exercise my right to privacy, and do NOT feel the need for a Dr/patient relationship. If I wanted one, I have a long list of unsympathetic, uncooperative Dr's on my insurance list to choose from $10 co-pay! Wow isn't that wonderful? NOT!!!
I am a private person and don't feel that I should have to explain my needs to a pompous judgmental Dr. I like my privacy, would rather be my own Dr. and point and click thank-you. Sorry but it works for me and I know it works for other people, as well. If a person leads a productive life, holds a job and takes care of a family, what gives the government the right to tell us that we need to have a Dr. patient relationship...just that phrase alone sets me off.
The idea of faxing my drivers license and medical records to some online pharmacy is very irritating. Doesn't anybody else kind of feel funny about this? Boy, and if the DEA started hitting the record OPs, wouldn't they have the goods?
Record OPs aren't safe either and could all disappear in a few weeks just like the non-record OPs. There really isn't any difference between the two. People probably fax these places records that are illegible, bad copy, incomplete and what not anyway.
When I requested my records, they looked like they were written by a five year old who flunked kindergarten.
So, these places charge this consultation fee, and are still allowed to put restrictions on you anyway , but aside from all that have a nice picture ID from you with your driver's license #and/or SS#.
Anyway, I detest it and think that somehow this defies all common sense. Only guessing, but I would wager that many of us are here because all things considered in a Dr./patient relationship...well, we would just rather not.
Personally, I know people who like to go to the Dr., this Dr. that Dr. I work with a few people who think its great to be constantly going to the Dr. I find it to be exhausting and don't have the time or patience for any of it.
Adults should have the option of doing what works best for them. I would rather spend the least amount of time "doctoring" I leave my Dr's office with a bag of samples of all kinds of crazy I don't need that, but some people just love it... kinda like going to a garage sale. Wouldn't give me any freaking Ativan, but had no problem going to the closet to get a bunch of samples of shizzle.
I left with a bag of junk from Doctor Dearest, which I knew I didn't want to play the lab rat for.
MizzzJ
I'm listening to Vertigo by U2 yeah...
Edited by mizzzj (11/22/04 08:16 PM)
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indecline
Stranger
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Hi,
This is my first post here, and I couldn't agree with you more - a Dr./patient relatiionship has to be established physically.
I have done quite a bit of reading in here and there seems to be some considerable disdain for NROP's - when in actuality, the record OP's and NROP's are both technically illegal by federal law.
The closest any OP is going to get to legal is the ones that require a port-a-medic who converses with the prescribing Dr. on the phone during the actual examination.
The big problem however, is what you pointed out, the fact that there are too many I-know-what's-best-for-you busybodies out there. Most Dr.'s I've been to in the past 15 years are businessmen first, Dr.'s second. And until the War on Drugs and Christian-do-gooders cease to be huge profit inducing ventures, you will never be able to walk into a store and make your own decision.
Low dosages of codeine (
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TLM2
Newbie
Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Hi,
This is my first post here, and I couldn't agree with you more - a Dr./patient relatiionship has to be established physically.
I have done quite a bit of reading in here and there seems to be some considerable disdain for NROP's - when in actuality, the record OP's and NROP's are both technically illegal by federal law.
The closest any OP is going to get to legal is the ones that require a port-a-medic who converses with the prescribing Dr. on the phone during the actual examination.
The big problem however, is what you pointed out, the fact that there are too many I-know-what's-best-for-you busybodies out there. Most Dr.'s I've been to in the past 15 years are businessmen first, Dr.'s second. And until the War on Drugs and Christian-do-gooders cease to be huge profit inducing ventures, you will never be able to walk into a store and make your own decision.
Low dosages of codeine (
You are absolutely right. The DEA's stance is that no OP (no-records or records kinds) are legal because there is no face to face doctor/patient relationship.
Possibly the port-o-medic could slide under the radar. The only ones that are considered legal are the ones where you get a prescription from your own doctor and send the prescription to an online pharmacy like walgreens.com, CVS.com etc.
I do not know how in the hell the DEA (who have had no medical school training) feel that they are the only ones qualified to tell the doctor what a proper doctor/patient relationship is.
The DEA is using underhanded scare tactics. They need to be stopped. They are violating our civil liberties. In my opinion, they are scum.
TLM2
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indecline
Stranger
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi,
This is my first post here, and I couldn't agree with you more - a Dr./patient relatiionship has to be established physically.
I have done quite a bit of reading in here and there seems to be some considerable disdain for NROP's - when in actuality, the record OP's and NROP's are both technically illegal by federal law.
The closest any OP is going to get to legal is the ones that require a port-a-medic who converses with the prescribing Dr. on the phone during the actual examination.
The big problem however, is what you pointed out, the fact that there are too many I-know-what's-best-for-you busybodies out there. Most Dr.'s I've been to in the past 15 years are businessmen first, Dr.'s second. And until the War on Drugs and Christian-do-gooders cease to be huge profit inducing ventures, you will never be able to walk into a store and make your own decision.
Low dosages of codeine (
You are absolutely right. The DEA's stance is that no OP (no-records or records kinds) are legal because there is no face to face doctor/patient relationship.
Possibly the port-o-medic could slide under the radar. The only ones that are considered legal are the ones where you get a prescription from your own doctor and send the prescription to an online pharmacy like walgreens.com, CVS.com etc.
I do not know how in the hell the DEA (who have had no medical school training) feel that they are the only ones qualified to tell the doctor what a proper doctor/patient relationship is.
The DEA is using underhanded scare tactics. They need to be stopped. They are violating our civil liberties. In my opinion, they are scum.
TLM2
TLM,
I think most of us will probably agree on that as I'm sure most of us have turned to OP's because of the DEA induced hysteria upon the medical community - you can thank Ronnie Raygun for that ...
It has been fairly well established for quite some time that Dr.'s are undermedicating pain patients in the US - instead, they medicate with supposedly "safe" drugs such as vioxx, ultram, toradol, and NSAIDS such as APAP.
I mean, if someone with Lou Gehrig's disease who has a month to live is forced to endure excruciating pain instead of a Dr. ending his misery 15 days early, I wouldn't expect much out of this compassionless society that ultimately fails to put itself in another person's shoes.
The ironic part is that it is the 'safe' drugs such as APAP that get you in trouble physically. While controlled substances such as opiates do present certain addictive problems with certain people, it's the APAP toxicity levels in the liver that are going to kill you. I am a firm believer that when you are in pain, you don't really get a high from opiates like you do when you take them recreationally, therefore many people are unfairly labeled as drug addicts when they are "relief from pain" addicts.
There was a study done in TJ Mexico by the Pain Paitents for Opiods society that showed that Mexican pain patients were actually breaking into Mexican Prisons to get meds - because in Mex, the gov't actually sells all drugs, from soft to hard, in prison at prison stores - it's called chemical labor - they figure that if they have a locked up heroin addict, they might as well sell him H, keep him happy, and keep him at work (in prison mfg) to pay for more H - although they do offer help if you want off of it, I find it sick that if you have cancer in TJ, you have to break into jail and live there for a while (jails are like mini-city's), to get relief!
God forbid you even mention any kind of narcotics to any HMO-related facility these days - most will have you red tagged and prejudged for future reference quicker than the words leave your mouth.
Edited by indecline (11/23/04 12:16 AM)
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PugDog78
Newbie
Reged: 10/26/04
Posts: 31
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Just saw my Dr. monday. I was given 4 meds one of which were hydocodone.He said "of course we will not keep you on the narcotic, when you come in om monday we will change that". If its helping me I dont see the problem.I do not get a buzz I get relief enough to do tasks around the house concidered easy to most (getting up, walking without pain,some house work..ect.)Just wanted to give my 2.Thanks.
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emb708
Newbie
Reged: 08/30/04
Posts: 42
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Quote:
I am a firm believer that when you are in pain, you don't really get a high from opiates
u are so right i do not get the high any more (wach is great for me) but i do get a lot less pain and that should be my right.
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 155
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>>There was a study done in TJ Mexico by the Pain Paitents >>for Opiods society that showed that Mexican pain patients >>were actually breaking into Mexican Prisons to get meds - >>because in Mex, the gov't actually sells all drugs, from >>soft to hard, in prison at prison stores - it's called >>chemical labor - they figure that if they have a locked >>up heroin addict, they might as well sell him H, keep him >>happy, and keep him at work (in prison mfg) to pay for >>more H - although they do offer help if you want off of >>it, I find it sick that if you have cancer in TJ, you >>have to break into jail and live there for a while (jails >>are like mini-city's), to get relief!
Whoa, interesting. But these "mini-city's" are like controlled by gangs and people are raped and extorted. I prefer the English method.
MetsFan
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 155
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>>Low dosages of codeine (>every civilized country in the world except for the US
It is because pain patients have no clout. We are not a recognized group. We just get mixed in with the "rec drug user". This type of "user" goes against our Judeo-Christian traditions.
MetsFan.
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 320
Loc: Midwest
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Well said, Indecline! 
Catmom
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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vic7
Member
Reged: 01/17/04
Posts: 128
Loc: Buckeye Country
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You know it is this kind of BS that has pain patients such as ourselves suffering. Warning longer post but nevertheless interesting w/ a twist!
My Grandmother (may God rest her soul) had very bad Arthritis in her hip. Over the years the disease had worn away the cartilage away from the bones and had severe pain when she walked, then to the point at all times she was in severe pain, basically her hip bones rubbing against other bare bones  . I can't even imagine the pain she was in except hearing her scream continually. She had a PCP whom she and her husband had been seeing for some time. Basically he should have been well aware of the pain she was in, and the fact that it will only get worse. He prescribed her Darvocet! . Like many people she thought Darvocet was a "strong medication" not sure why people tend to think this....I know I used to as well, and when I took one and it didn't work I got scared thinking "Oh my God if Darvocet doesn't help, then maybe something is really wrong!!" It got to the point where my father had to take har to the Dr. to be sure she was getting proper care, and explained to the Dr. that the pain meds are ot working at all she is taking way too much, she is older and she may not have the best idea of when and how often she was taking her meds. Since this is common of people of this age, especially hen dealing with a medication that didn't work she wouldn't know for sure when she took it. Not good considering 1) The med has such an easy Overdose potential, and 2) The medication has so much APAP in it and she is taking it often; not good for an older womans liver! 3) Of course the medication is not much more effective than Tylenol and Dr's know this!!
After my father persistence he prescribed her from Darvocet to 10mg Percocet! Big difference! And this only ridded the pain in half it seemed but she was happy with that as she didn't want anything stronger and with what it did to her mentally; neither did we...But the Dr. only had her on Percocet 10mg for a couple months and while she did increase her dosage a couple times due tolerance likely, but when the Dr. heard that it didn't totally get rid of the pain, he then prescribed her Oxycontin 40 Mg on to Oxy 80!!.....These medications especially the Oxy 80, controlled the pain, but it made her a walking (uhh...somehwat walking) nut case practically w/ very strange mental effects, and we had to plea to the Dr. to try something else, along the strength of the Perc's or preferbaly a bit stronger but not with the side effects the Oxycontin was giving her as she was nutty on that stuff....I realize that with older folks have these side effects different I just found it strange that when she took 2 Percocet 10mg it was not near as bad mental effects, but the Oxy was like a totally different story because they are both Oxycodone....Don't understand that one???
For some reason the Dr. did not want to take her off the Oxy, when he at first was scared to write anything stronger than Darvocet for somebody with as severe pain as hers, but yet once she was on the Oxy he wanted to up the dosage and said trying a new med wouldn't be a good idea. My Father asked about Morphine or Demerol or the like and others and Doc said no to those and they likely won't be good for her??
I always thought this was strange...Was Purdue giving "kick-backs" of some sort to the Dr. or was he actually being honest? With a sudden change of heart? Just never did understand why he was scared of Narcotics, then went straight to Oxy then high dosage OC80??
FYI: I went to see him for a Migraine and told him that I had taken Fioricet 3 w/ decent success before and thought maybe he will prescribe that because it has shown to be somewhat effective...dependent on severity. Same Doc that was scared of Darvocet here remember for a VERY painful condition and for me he said....To much surprise, so what do you think " If Fioricet helps sometimes, then maybe you need something a bit stronger, something like Darvocet :thumb-down: or Norco which is like Vicodin but a bit more effective and safer"!! Surprised the heck out of me considering his past....But he was right Norco is great for Migraines!
Sorry for rambling like always, but always found this story a bit interesting!!
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peace
'vic7
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Never been Wrong, though one time I thought I was; it turned out I was mistaken!
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mizzzj
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 235
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
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Vic7
Yes, you were successfully able to communicate with your Dr after all. This is always hit or miss...I just believe that a Dr. needs to really listen to his/her patients and their families.
Medicine really shouldn't be thought of as a business, but it is, and it appears as if we are all on our own.
Nice post. I read it word for word twice.
MizzzJ
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If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 415
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Vic7,
Unfortunately, your story is more common than many people realize. The problem is, is that many doctors do NOT know how to correctly titrate up the dosages of chronic pain meds and therefore either over or undermedicate their patients.
In order to properly dose pain meds, doctors actually need to spend time with their patients that they don't have. Unfortunately doctors are SO OVERWORKED that they don't have the time to sit and talk to their patients about proper prescribing regimens.
voyager
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indecline
Stranger
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Quote:
Well said, Indecline!
Catmom
Thanks catmom - nice to meet you! 
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indecline
Stranger
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 24
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Vic,
I'm glad your grandmom got the attention she deserved. Out here in CA it is very common to not even get narcotics in the ER anymore, for fear of "repeat visitors seeking drugs".
I have TMD which results in very painful cluster headaches (its like a migraine that can last for days).
Whereas 5 years ago I used to arrive at the ER in the fetal position (I shut down when I'm at a 10+ migraine) - they used to give me a shot of morphine, or at least demerol, right away.
Now, they always make you try Imitrex first, a non-narcotic second (like Toradol, which is like tylenol x 100), and of course you have to wait 20 minutes in between each shot, then, and only then, will some ER's give you Demerol.
All the urgent care facilities around here aren't even allowed to dispense narcotics (ie in the form of a shot, not something you take home) and, like I said, more and more hospitals will stop at Toradol unless you've been laying in their prescence for over an hour - obviously this doesn't help when it feels like someone is gouging behind your eyeballs with an icepick while they continually tighten a vise clamp around your head!
I guess with migraines, people who don't have them don't actually see something physically wrong with you so it's a bit different than seeing a guy with a broken femur.
When I was in Taiwan (on vacation) I had a migraine once and was wisked to the ER - I didn't even sit down in a waiting room, they rushed me into a room, gave me nitrous right away, and then gave me a shot of morphine within 2 minutes of walking in the front door.
Here in the ER, I sit and listen to nurses joking about what's on Bachelor Bob that night, frolicking and gossiping like it's just another lacqadasical day at work, while I sit behind a curtain suffering every agonizing minute - an hour can seem like several, as I'm sure most of you pain patients are well aware ... it is amazing to me what the whole business of medicine has turned into - somthing that should be an oxymoron (ie medical-business).
Reagards,
fleshonbone, indecline
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Unnamed
Newbie
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 28
Loc: Heart of Dixie
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It's very simple. Once you accept the assumption that people should only be allowed to take narcortics based on a certain level of pain, it's only a matter of time before some stranger is making these kinds of decisions for you.
Would it not be far more reasonable to trust people when they say they need something, and let adults decide for themselves what risks they want to take with their health--and be responsible for the consequences if they turn themselves into junkies?
As long as we continue to think the gov't is our parent, our health will continue to be at the mercy of a government agent--who is no more wise than any other adult.
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bbopin1
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 53
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I agree completely.
but i am tired of seeing people talk in a 3rd person view of 'junkies' face the facts we are all junkies. theres no thin red line..just some people are able to handle habits better than others. in the end if you take narcotics for more than a few weeks you are addicted. the reason why docs wont just give out drugs to whoever needs or wants them is simple also..irresponsibility so many people get them and do something stupid, or overdose etc..sucks but oh well
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 415
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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bbopon1: you hit the nail on the head!
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srw
Member
Reged: 06/17/04
Posts: 171
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i think 1 difference of nrop's and record op's is the nrop's can be used by almost any1, underage kids as well, so at the least the record op's try to verify age, medical condition, if you need that strong of a narcotic i dont think its wrong to provide proof you have been seen for it, not just fill out an online question form
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sasi
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 107
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I would love to have a real doctor-patient relationship but it has always seemed to me that the doctors are the ones who don't want a real relationship. They want to get you in and out as quickly as possible, they don't listen to a word you say, they treat you like you don't have a clue about your condition, (even though I've had it for 20 years and they have not experienced it themselves) and they always know best, you couldn't possibly know anything at all. Ugh, I hate doctors right now. I've been back and forth to 5 different urologists and none of them will do what I want them to do because I've been through this so many times and I know what works. They say they have a different philosophy and give me Detrol and pee dye and say "this will take care of it." No it won't, I need to be dialated and be given a bladder irrigation. Guess I'll have to sell my car so that I can go back to my old urologist who is not covered under my insurance at $400.00 a pop.
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bbopin1
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 53
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what about people who are 20 years old? does there pain not count? Even if they have medical records and an actual problem no OP will help them cause they are not 21,or 25. I use to be in this boat.
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mizzzj
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 235
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
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"Christian do-gooders" is right! Maybe its me or your post wasn't showing up, but how could I have missed that? I know a couple of mine never "showed" or were deleted for expressing blatant political views. Far be it from me to start a flame war, but I couldn't agree with you more. This country, based on 'freedom' is also based on 'Christianity,'which I feel is a contradiction.
Really these do goody, meddling busy-body Drs are usually just there to make you feel like sh!t. (Degrading a patient and intimidating them is also within the realm.) Every human being has their own body that they have lived in since the day they were born, just try to tell a Dr. this.
I have a great psychologist, but she can't prescribe meds. which is too bad because she's just great and very knowlegeable about meds plus listens to me, but thats what she gets paid the big money for. Sometimes I can't believe that I have to go to one Dr. physical care and another for mental care. Isn't one sometimes associated with the other?
I can't believe I have to visit a second Dr. to listen to me, like listening is extra
MizzzJ
Listening to
Just Lose It -by Eminem
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If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 681
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
Quote:
I am a firm believer that when you are in pain, you don't really get a high from opiates
u are so right i do not get the high any more (wach is great for me) but i do get a lot less pain and that should be my right.
This is actually scientifically true, not just because of tolerance, but because of the effect of opiates on the pain beast itself. When someone with true physical pain takes a narcotic painkiller, the majority of that drug goes straight to the pain receptors in the brain, whereas if you are just looking to get high, the drug sort of floats around the brain and actually does just that. It is a double edged sword, however, because over the long term, opiates suppress the body's ability to produce endorphins, the natural substances that reduce pain in our bodies. This is why we often have tremendous 'rebound' pain when we go off of opiates after long term use. It's also a fact that the incidnce of actual addiction is much lower in true pain patients than it is in recreational users. For me personally, after being on everything from morphine to hydro in the past year, the worst W/D's I have ever had were just the tremendous increase in the original pain for which I was prescribed the drugs for in the first place. Of course, YMMV...
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Monte Montgomery ROCKS!
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 681
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
It's very simple. Once you accept the assumption that people should only be allowed to take narcortics based on a certain level of pain, it's only a matter of time before some stranger is making these kinds of decisions for you.
Would it not be far more reasonable to trust people when they say they need something, and let adults decide for themselves what risks they want to take with their health--and be responsible for the consequences if they turn themselves into junkies?
As long as we continue to think the gov't is our parent, our health will continue to be at the mercy of a government agent--who is no more wise than any other adult.
Man, this is sooooo true! I had an ortho's PA give me a botched cortisone injection in my SI joint, without benefit of any type of Xray guidance, which I later found out, is SOP. The idiot's EGO would not allow him to believe that the shot not only didn't help me, it increased my pain exponentially! He finally caved and gave me two days worth of 5 mg. Percocets, which did absolutely nothing for the level of pain that I was having! It was only my compassionate PCP, after hearing the whole story, that provided any real relief! It is pretty sad when you have about 100 things wrong with your back, that a virtual stranger that spent a whopping 6-7 mins with you, decides whether or not you are really in pain! BTW, this is a great thread...thanks Mizzz for starting it...
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Monte Montgomery ROCKS!
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trelaina
Journeyman
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 80
Loc: thereabouts
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Far be it from me to start a flame war either, but please, folks, try to remember that there are all kinds of people with chronic pain, including Christians, such as me. I really don't think generalizations are necessary. I may be a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm out there participating in the bogus "war on drugs". Why is it that bigotry against Christians is the last "acceptable" prejudice? Please, don't lump us all together like that. Thanks. 
Edited by trelaina (11/30/04 08:26 AM)
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Julz
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 223
Loc: NJ Shore
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Trelaina~
Nice post! Same here, I am Christian, and I do not consider myself a "do-gooder."
In fact, I am in the dental health field & have been for over 20 years. During this time, most, if not all of the Dr's that I have met that are really strict in prescribing narcotics are all athiests.
Just my observations.
Peace,
Julz
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Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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dmoe
Member
Reged: 03/25/04
Posts: 160
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I myself have had 3 failed back surgeries all at the same location, when my comp case was over, I did start going to the Dr that had been going to for years since 18 (now 39) and they would prescribe pain med for me when I needed it, and were sympathetic, well then they shut down, the Dr retired and all records were sent to another walk in type Dr office, and when I went there due to severe back pain, all I got from the Dr was that he felt I was addicted to pain meds even though I only went to the other office that shut down about every 3 months and got a script of 30 hydro tablets, so anyway this new place and doc said he would prescribe pain meds for me because it was obvious to him that I supposedly had a problem. I said to this idiot if I had a problem don't you think I would have been to the doctor every week to get a script for 30 tablets every week instead of making 30 pain pills last for 3 months or more and he just did not want to here it, I also said I have no withdrawal, and that taking 30 pain pills over the course of 3 months was like taking 1 pain pill per week, now how does that make me a pill addict, needless to say I could not get the care I needed and was left to go home in pain after paying $110.00 for this visit. This is the reason I moved into the OP culture I use an Op that has all my records and has very long phone telephone visits with me and wants to know how I am doing and if the meds are working and I do not refill every 30 days only as I need to. But the point I am trying to make is that for some reason the doctors today that we go to see for help when we are in pain just do not want to help us, they see us as just a bunch pill poppers, and they do under treat our pain. I have seen many articles about under treated pain, and it causes a lot of other problems with us, depression etc... and real moodiness toward our loved ones because we are in pain and just cannot fuction and then our families just hate us due to that, and we hate ourselves because we cannot live a normal life and do the things that people who do not suffer do, such as raising our kids or even playing with them. not to mention just trying to sleep through the night in comfort, sorry I wrote so much it is just that it makes me so mad that all these doctor's care about is their paycheck, I would like all of them walk in our shoes, and then they will see just how miserable pain can be when you have to live with it everyday!!!!
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FredsDead
Stranger
Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 12
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I'm sorry, I just simply disagree with any form of labeling!
I taken or NOT taken care of by Kaiser-Permanente. I ended up at the ER got a shot of demerol and told there's nothing wrong with me, EXCEPT THE PAIN!! I saw a different doctor everyday for 3 days that would not help my pain! Short of breaking a bone they would not help me. Are these do gooders?? MOre like cheapskates!
I switched health care and went to a non profit christian hospital which i found much more personable Docs that helped me with my pain and ailments. Just my personal experience with pain and health care
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 681
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
Far be it from me to start a flame war either, but please, folks, try to remember that there are all kinds of people with chronic pain, including Christians, such as me. I really don't think generalizations are necessary. I may be a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm out there participating in the bogus "war on drugs". Why is it that bigotry against Christians is the last "acceptable" prejudice? Please, don't lump us all together like that. Thanks.
You addressed your reply to me, but I am not the one that made that remark..I also am a Christian and found the use of the term a little offensive, but I also understand the meaning behind the original poster's frustration..and you are right, it seems that the only 'group' in America that it is PC to bash are Christians. I think the original poster was referring to extreme right-wingers like Ashcroft, although the BS 'war on drugs' started long before he was a high level govt. official.
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Monte Montgomery ROCKS!
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mizzzj
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 235
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
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I would like to clarify something at the risk of further putting my foot in my mouth. I do believe that there are good Christian people out there.
A "do-goodying Christian busybody" does not fall into the same catagory, but is an example of an individual who tries to use religion as a cloak, so to speak, to cram their personal beliefs down everyone else's throat.
Bless all the good, tolerant, non-judgemental Christians who will accept, and not be ready to tar and feather their neighbor, then run them out of town, if opinions differ!! 
mizzzj
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If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
Edited by mizzzj (12/04/04 10:38 AM)
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trelaina
Journeyman
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 80
Loc: thereabouts
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Kandi - I did use your words, but my post wasn't directed entirely to you. It was speaking to anyone who used Christianity in a derogatory way.
Actually, I happen to be a right-wing nut job, myself. The only area to which I don't conform is drugs. I tend to be more Liberatarian on that issue. And the reason I feel that way is not only because of my own injury, because I can relate to many other issues on a personal basis. But because it's not logical to let people suffer. I don't see why marijauna can't be legalized for those who have a medical need for it. I saw a Montel Williams show on that and I was in tears for the people who were suffering...including Montel, who uses every day. I actually don't even see what the big deal is w/ legalizing it in general - alcohol is legal...what's the difference? So I really break from my party in that. But most of you would probably lump me in w/ Ashcroft in every other way. *shrugs* So to me, it still seems like a generalization. I know I'm in the minority here, though.
And, yes, I do like John Ashcroft (let the flaming begin! )
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