maverick
Journeyman
Reged: 06/13/02
Posts: 95
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I want to say thanks again for all replies. I have one more question, I'm still a little confused.
the doc has given me a choice whether to take hydrocodone, methadone, or mscontin. with my tollerance problem, which would ya'll suggest I take. Toky, you said methadone. your right, it didn't give me that energy, but i didn't feel bad like when I used to run out of hydrocodone. you say the sleepyness would eventually go away? and how about tapering off of the methadone? are there bad withdrawles like with hydro? I'd just like to know which med would be best to take in my situation. thanks again, mav
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theoldprofessor
Newbie
Reged: 06/19/02
Posts: 49
Loc: NorthEast Ohio
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You are trying to find a happy ending to a situation in which, unfortunantely, there is no happy ending. No matter what painkiller you choose to de-tox off of the other painkilers you were formerly taking, you will have to W/D from that painkiller also. There is none that I know of which won't give W/D's. I saw on TV a place where they put you in a deep sleep for like 48 or 72 hours while you de-tox so at least you're not aware of the unpleasantness, but probably this is for very extreme cases and expensive. (This was for oxy abusers, who had been IV'ing every 2 hours for the last 7 years). The best you can do is find something that is the lesser of evils; I believe methadone probably is the least bad of all, as long as you don't go on a long term "maintenance" program, because W/D from methadone can be bad also, but not bad at all if you're put on a "de-tox" program, for example, a 21 day program, starting at say 35mg. then every three days going down 5mg. I know, cause I went thru a 21 day detox in 1977; only thing I didn't like was having to go down to zero; methadone is in my opinion very addicting, it just makes you feel so good and I for one DID get an energy rush from it. I was totally able to work, without drowsiness.
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Gene
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toky20
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/17/02
Posts: 1347
Loc: Windy Place
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From what I've heard, methadone withdrawals are bad. But for now, I'm not planning on that problem, as I AM on a long term 'maintenance' program. As someone else said, every opiate is going to have a withdrawal attached, so I guess that's something in common. Has your doctor made recommendations to you about which drug to use? One of the reasons I use methadone and not Oxycontin or MSContin is the price: I have no insurance, and methadone is very inexpensive, as it's been around forever. So maybe talking to your doc and pharmacist about prices, how long till you get to a therapeutic dose, how will it fit in with your lifestyle (can't be a brain surgeon if you're taking methadone every day), etc. How long do you expect to be on this med? What interactions will it (they) have with other meds you might be taking? What other medical conditions might you have that would have to be considered when making this decision?
I know it's a lot of questions, but these are questions I have thought of since I've been using the methadone. All I can say is that I still have pain every day, but it's more tolerable. I still have some bad days, like lately it's been raining and fall weather is here, so that always affects me negatively. But the methadone has helped more in the long run than any other I've been on, and I do believe I've been on most of the narcotics available. Could never get anyone to give me the morphine drip tho 
Take Care,
Toky
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Jeremiah
Agape GrandParent
Reged: 07/14/02
Posts: 705
Loc: U.S.A.
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I also am on long term maintenance and must take a holiday yearly. This is the schedule and suggestion(s) I can offer,hope they help.You must have self-discipline,NO MATTER WHAT,it will pass,dont take a hydro.
Day 1: 10 pills a day
Day 2 thru 6: 7 pills a day
Day 7 thru 12: 5 pills a day
Day 13 thru 16: 3 pills broken in half a day
Day 17 thru 20: 2 pills broken in half a day
Day 21: Your done.
Make sure you have enough tabs to begin,do not take a missed dose,sleep as much as possible and valium/xanax
helped me thru it. Be careful(discipline again) not to exchange one monkey for another If you have errands/work during the tapering,only take with you the alloted number of tabs for that day,or your next scheduled tapered dose.
Hope this works for you as it did me. I cant take credit for this schedule, a friend passed it on to me,so what goes around comes around, as I pass it on too.
J.
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I can't see me lovin nobody but you,for all my life
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bdc3r
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/28/02
Posts: 200
Loc: USA
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How did you feel during the first week? Second week? It takes a lot of courage and will power to do what you have spoken of. Thanks for the information!
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sam2me2
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Southeast, US
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Sorry to get a little off-topic but I also need help with a question that I am embarassed/afraid to ask my doctors. I have been taking hydro for about 3 years for sciatiaca- I am a female(seems we have this problem more) and I have been having recurring urinary tract infections for the past year. Do any of you that are using hydro/opiates have this problem also? I have never had this before and the med is the only link I can tie into my situation. It does seem that when I go to the restroom after taking my meds- that I cannot "release" all of the urine I am holding and still feel like I need to go but can't- this is sooo emabrassing to post!! And then I end up with sometimes severe infections. Since I see the doc who is on call that day that I go- maybe they don't pay attention to my charts and don't see that I am on hydro. Anyway- anyone else ever experience this?? If so- what can I do to keep my urinary tract healthy? 
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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No I haven't experienced this.
But it can happen. 
It also could be nerve related.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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headachehannah
Member
Reged: 06/16/02
Posts: 124
Loc: USA
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I read something about opiates affecting or effecting - whatever the right word is - smooth muscles, like the ones in the urinary system... so you might have some kind of link there.
Don't be embarassed, with all the medical problems around here and the VIP board someone is likely to have suffered from the same thing.
Urinary tract health, now I'm just going from memory as someone who used to get a ton of UTI's as a kid and teen...
lots of water... *flush* out the bacteria 
cranberry juice, also comes in caps from GNC, bet you could find it online all sorts of places, all sorts of prices
go potty right after having intercourse - pm for details on why
no soaps with smells and stuff - ivory soap is good enough for that place.
take a shower b4 sex - pm for that info too
wipe front to back
Hope this helps, I'll keep this in the back of my mind and let you know if I remember anything else.
PM with any questions
hannah 
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headachehannah
Member
Reged: 06/16/02
Posts: 124
Loc: USA
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sam2me2 -
I tried to send you a PM to let you know I posted this, and to tell you to let me know if you have any questions you are too embarassed to post to go ahead and send me a PM. You aren't accepting PM's so I'll let you know here. There isn't much I haven't heard or asked myself. I like to think I know a little bit about everything, and if I don't know, I know how to find out.
The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked!
hannah
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chilly
Newbie
Reged: 06/25/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Colorado
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Try a process called "superhydrating" that is to force yourself to drink AT LEAST 1 gal (128 oz) of ice cold water a day -- that will can help with alot of hydro related side effects and will flush you out (stay close to the potty ) Not sure if it will help with interc**se or not can't hurt tho!
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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I concur with Elizabeth and Chilly...drink lots of water and cranberry juice. And this will sound odd...but what the heck...
if you've had children sometimes the bladder gets tilted.
A doctor told my mother that while trying to empty her bladder to sort of bend over and touch her toes...you'll need a camera for later laughs but it helped mom...
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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Beetlenut
Threadhead
Reged: 09/09/02
Posts: 764
Loc: Colorado
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Yes, urinary retention can indeed be a side effect from hydro. Drink a LOT of water, cranberry juice is excellent also. Try a mild diuretic also. Go homeopathic first-look for one at at your local vitamin store; there are some herbs that have diurectic effects. The clerk should be able to help you. If that doesn't work, ask your doc for a mild diuretic.
But first and foremost, IMO you should absolutely tell your doc. There might be something else going on like urethral spasms, a blockage, kidney problems, neurological problems (MS comes to mind), etc. It could be anything and I would not necessarily blame it on the hydo!
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chilly
Newbie
Reged: 06/25/02
Posts: 33
Loc: Colorado
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Hey Hannah -- I tryed that "wipe from front to back" thing but keep running into something can you PM me instructions - sorry I just couldn't resist!!
More seriously tho -- on "superhydrating" be sure (as mentioned above) make sure you check with your doc and see that it's not being caused my something else - also if you take a BP med or other similar diurectic make sure it;s appro to take that much H20 you may be defeating the purpose of the BP meds - good luck and keep us posted!
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drmom8789
Journeyman
Reged: 07/26/02
Posts: 96
Loc: an area that's way too cold
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Hannah, I've got to go along with Beetlenut. Visit your Doc and just have a quick urine check. IT IS NOT A DRUG SCREEN. When I had the same problem, I just dropped into the office, provided a fresh urine sample, they did a quick dip (kind of like a litmus paper strip or pool chemical strip) and if white blood cells are present then you know you have a little infection. I used Cipro to get rid of it but I know other meds that work well too. Don't worry about your pain med use. That shouldn't enter in to it at all if you pay a quick visit for a bladder infection or UTI. Better to start with a simple solution like a good old UTI and then an antibiotic. Also, pound that water and cranberry juice. Once the infection (if there is one) is cleared up, it will help you. Feel better soon. Drmom
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drmom8789
Journeyman
Reged: 07/26/02
Posts: 96
Loc: an area that's way too cold
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Whoops! I should have addressed my comments to sam2me2! Duh.
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sam2me2
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Southeast, US
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I had come back to the site to delete my entry- I just knew I would be laughed off the board- but I was pleasantly surprised with all of the kind help! Thank you all for the tips- yes I am trying the water and cranberry juice etc. I also did some research and found that the hydro can cause "urinary retention"- that must be what is happening to me. Again- thank you for the tips and thank you for not joking about something that is so painful but embarassing to talk about.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I get UTIs all the time. And I mean, ALL THE TIME.
A urologist told em something I didn't know. Only drink cranberry or use the cranberry caps during the 1st three days on the infection. After that, the acidity can rip apart your bladder and urethra causing more pain. He said 3 days cranberry and after that tons of water.
No need to be embarrassed Sam. It happens to a lot of women. (Men too but not as often because of anatomy)
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zenbuck2
Stranger
Reged: 09/30/02
Posts: 16
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I'm a bit worried about WD myself. I've been taking 30mg hydro for psoriatic arthritis for about 2 months...but I don't take it everyday. Just 2-4 days on and then 2-4 days off. My current psoriasis/arthritis flare-up is calming down, and I'm planning on stopping taking these until I need them again. I just took 4 days in a row and don't plan on any tomorrow. I haven't felt any WD having been off for 4 days but that's not a long time. Can you become dependant with this frequency of use? There doesn't seem to be much info about this...just "....can become dependant with daily use". How about intermident but frequent use?
Any info thanks....
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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I believe WD starts in earnest 48-72 hours after your last dose. So if you can go 4 days...I *think* you are good to go!
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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BigSis
Member
Reged: 07/31/02
Posts: 140
Loc: Seattle
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Wow, I guess different people are different. My w/d's (when I'm unlucky enough to have them and thanks to OP's not very often anymore) are pretty much over by the 72nd hour.
Either way, if you're at 4 days you're probably through with the whole thing. Congratulations!
Sis
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"The road goes on forever, but the song remains the same..."
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zenbuck2
Stranger
Reged: 09/30/02
Posts: 16
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Hmmm....I'm thinking I must not have a physical dependancy at this point...as I have not felt any of the classic symptoms to this point. I just don't want to get hooked on this stuff and was worried that even if I wasn't taking it everyday that I could still get hooked. Is this possible?
I've never seen any literature on this subject. I've avoided daily use for more than 4 days in a row because of this...but have been worried because I'd go 4 days and sometimes only a day or 2 (sometimes up to 4) between taking the meds and it has been about 2 months I've been doing this. My tolerance to the meds hasn't really upped that much either.
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sam2me2
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Southeast, US
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It is good that your tolerance hasn't gone up. When you have to start taking more to get pain releif when 1 used to work- then start slowing down. But you are doing the right thing by going a few days without taking any and then going back.
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Beetlenut
Threadhead
Reged: 09/09/02
Posts: 764
Loc: Colorado
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Hi Drew:
I know exactly what you are talking about. I take Tramadol (generic Ultram) when I don't have any Norco. I get it very cheap at Speedrx.net. I also order "Moodcaps" from the speedrx.net-they are herbal and claim to reduce withdrawal symptoms. They both work great for me!
In all honesty though, the best way to get off hydro is to do a slow taper and have your doctor prescribe clonidine. Clonidine has several uses-high blood pressure, angina, but is the drug of choice for relieving withdrawal symptoms from opiates and alcohol. You may even be able to find it on the net.
Also, valium will help the withdrawal symptoms as well, and if you're not taking tramadol (which is constipating) take Immodium for the diarrhea.
Best of luck to you.
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1419
Loc: MidWest USA
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I can only offer sympathy, not solutions.
In my young(er) and stupid(er) days I took opiates for, ah, let's say, "fun." Oh, and also last year, when I was living abroad. I know somebody here is going to try to call bullsheet on me, but I did at one point take 1200mg of codeine in an evening. Guess what happened? I overdosed on tylenol, of course. Luckily I recognized the tinnitus within an hour or so of the last ingestion and induced vomiting.
Then I spent the next 12 hours or so not needing to induce it. Sent someone out to get me magic anti-vomit solution, and was able to drink it slowly enough to keep it down.
That tolerance thing is forever, no doubt.
I've been legitimately prescribed opiates in relation topneumonia induced chronic bronchitis, and I'm happy to say that it seems that at least it still seems to work for that.
You will never see me seeking opiates on this board. . . I am lucky enough that my pain and medical needs respond to other classes. But for those of you whose conditions require, I feel sympathy. They never work again the way they once did, and the withdrawal is just gravy.
Best of luck to everyone.
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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roamingump
Newbie
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 38
Loc: Great Southwest, USA
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Quote:
"The methadone, will keep you from feeling the euphoric feeling because it is an antagonist."
No no no, it's not. Methdone is a full agonist.It's so
powerfull that it sometimes blocks the effects of
other opiates, completely taking over your receptors
that is what you're thinking of.
You're correct, pure agonist. Very little euphoria, but good analgesia and long lasting. Nasty habit though!! Long slow withdrawls.
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crzygrl
Newbie
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 25
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No need to feel embarassed. I too find that I have trouble "releasing" all of the urine in my bladder at times when I am taking hydrocodone to treat pain. I have not had trouble with UTIs...knock on wood. But it sounds like others have some good suggestions on how to prevent/treat those. Thanks for sharing. At least now I know I am not the only one experiencing this problem!
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angelaja
Stranger
Reged: 09/29/04
Posts: 18
Loc: utah, USA
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I', wondering who carries methadone and at what prices. I'm liking your tapering schedule and want to give it a try to . Let me know.
Angelaja
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pwptds
Journeyman
Reged: 09/02/04
Posts: 88
Loc: Highway to Heaven
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Hi,
A friend of mine is on methadone, and she goes to a Treatment center in town. I think she told me that is costs $11 a day, and at first she had to go everyday. They have a Dr there and keep drug testing her to make sure she's not doing anything else.
I don't know of where you can buy it online. But I think it's best to go somewhere where they can monitor you, becuase I hear it can be pretty dangerous if you self medicate.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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Write the FDA and DEA and BEG THEM with all your HEART to make the new drug OxyTrex NOT CONTROLLED nor Scheduled.
OxyTrex is the new drug in Phase III trials right now that is oxycodone in which you dont get nearly as tolerant and dependant too, because of a super-ultra low dose of naltrexone mixed in with it which potentiates it. its also safer than regular oxycodone
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