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kimbell1
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Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 280
Loc: Route 666, Painville, Texas 6...
Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription
      #137462 - 02/14/04 09:34 PM

I had 5 refills on my norco with the last one refilled on January 16, 2003. The doctor put a 30 day hold before I can refill again. This is my last refill and last time I do business with Walgreens. The pharmacists are into their own little world of regulation. I counted on the calendar and today (February 14) has been 30 days. I tried to refill the medication and was told that 30 days had not passed!

The pharmacist stated that 30 days passes when Feb 16 arrives. That will be 32 days between refills!. Both I and two other people counted on a calendar and Feb 14 IS the 30th day. AM I wrong in my counting?

The pharmacist gave me his name when I asked for it and the phone number to Walreens head office . I logged a complaint after hours and left my phone number if anyone calls me back from their district office.

The pharmacist was adamant that Walgreens does NOT refill pain killers early, yet on my 3rd refill, they refilled it about 5 days early since I am disabled and its hard for me to drive and I like to do all the errands that I need to do when I drive to Dallas. I pointed that Walgreens does refill even when there is a 30 day hold and in this case, it was exactly 30 days from when it was last filled.

I called two other Walgreens and they stopped just shy of admitting it was up to the pharmacists discretion (these were pharmacy techs and one Walgreen Pharmacist even said that he would not refill early even if there were no doctor holds. He would only refill the day before the medication ran out).

I live near Dallas. Texas. Last night, we had the first snowfall in years. It is usually ice and this year, it didn't look like anything would happen. I called the pharmacist and pointed out that 30 days would have elapsed since the last refill and that it rarely snows in Texas but since he would not refill early, I needed my medication since I was out.

I would have transferred the prescription to another store, but I had already done so since the fist Walgreens had gotten so busy that it took hours to get a prescription filled and this drugstore that I had the prescription transferred to used to be on the way to s friend's house ( but she hasnow moved).

In the future, Walgreens doesn't get business from me ever again. I had posted a few days ago, but this new experience was the worst I had been through.

Any good drugstore chains ?


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NJ_Hoss
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Posts: 263
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: kimbell1]
      #137488 - 02/15/04 12:53 AM

Clearly, the pharmacist is doing whatever is within his discretion to ensure that the maximum interval has passed before dispensing the medication to you.

Whether Walgreens authorizes early refills appears to be moot in this case, as the doctor mandated a 30 day refill interval, which the pharmacist is obligated to observe as part of the dispensing indication. As for permitting "early" refills, "early" is not a concrete term. Most pharmacies use 75% as their refill point, but if the pharmacist believes that the doctor has indicated a specific date, or the pharmacist believes that there is the potential for diversion or abuse, he is required by virtue of his license to ensure that the prescription is picked up no earlier than the latest possible dispensing date he can justify. As there is generally no provision which requires prescriptions be dispensed at a given interval, other than ensuring it is done so within the standard of care, pharmacists have the professional discretion to authorize early refills, especially to accommodate special circumstances such as vacation supplies, etc.

As it is the pharmicist's professional discretion and obligation as a licensee, neither Walgreen's, nor any other large chain is likely to countermand his discretion as they are both powerless to reinstate his license should his licensing agency determine he acted in a manner that is less than consistent with the standard of care and loathe to send a message that they implement policies which cause their pharmacists to practice their profession in ways that require them to waive their professional discretion, which would hugely impact their ability to recruit and retain pharmacists. In the current environment of a severe pharmacist shortage, this is a major consideration and the extent to which operators wrestle with these issues and weigh their implications is nothing less than considerable.

In practical terms, you probably aren't going to receive the satisfaction you seek. The pharmacist may be computing the days based upon when you last picked up your prescription, instead of when it was dispensed, which would actually be more in keeping with the spirit of the doctor's orders. To an extreme, he may even consider if it was dispensed in the evening, the next morning would start the clock running. Of course, this is all conjecture, as only the pharmacist has insight into his own decision process. Without being flippant, did you ask him to explain the method by which he arrived at the specific date?

Despite enjoying a considerable amount of professional discretion, he is not permitted, either by his company or any governing regulatory entity of which I've ever become aware, to act capriciously; and because doing so could equally compromise the standard of care, doing so could just as easily be subject to review, albeit for an entirely different reason. I've found that even the most opinionated individuals are willing to explain their reasoning to a polite, yet firm, request. No pharmacist can defend a "just because" rationale to either an employer or regulator, but it is important to ask the right questions before pursuing an issue further.

The pharmacist most likely hid under the veil of "company policy" instead of either having to take the time to explain his reasonsing or presenting the opporutunity for further debate. After all, how can you debate an alleged policy created by someone who isn't present? I think most of us have done something similar at one time or another. This isn't a phenomenon that is exclusive to Walgreens and because it most probably is the product of the pharmacist's professional discretion, it is just as likely to happen at any pharmacy chain, or even independent pharmacy as it was at this particular store, my high regard for Walgreens notwithstanding.

There is one national pharmacy chain whose staff, both pharmacy and retail, are known to generally be particularly surly and known to be difficult to its customers and prescribing doctors alike. The problems have arisen from the way the company grew and the employment climate it fostered among both its existing employees and those of the companies it has acquired, pitting them against each other and management, and their customers have paid a significant price in terms of service.

Fortunately, customers virtually always have the option of shopping elsewhere. Even more fortunately, the chain has made substantial strides in changing the fundamental ways in which it does business; and while the process is going to be painfully long, they are impoving. The name of the particular chain isn't important, but what is important is that this company who has often seemed to operate despite its customers, instead of becausse of them is not Walgreens.

I do not work for Walgreens, I own no of their stock; and I have no pending contracts for providing services on their behalf. While it is possible to have an absolutely horrible experience at any particular pharmacy, regardless of how well its parent company runs its business or otherwise treats its customers, Walgreens reputation within the pharmacy industry among its customers and competitors is widely considered to be among the very highest.

I'm sorry you had this unfortunate experience, and I hope this can help you to be better-informed if it should happen again.


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booker
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Reged: 08/15/03
Posts: 348
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: kimbell1]
      #137514 - 02/15/04 06:02 AM

When I lived in Texas I used Eckerd's. That was over a decade ago. Have you tried them and/or does anyone have any feedback on them?

I live in a small town and use a mom and pop pharmacy. They refill according to what my insurance agrees to pay and according to how the script was written. For instance, if I get a pain med that has refills and it says "must last 21 days before next refill", then on day 21 they will refill it. I'm taking lipitor on a regular basis and I call it in a few days before I am out and they refill. I think on a monthly refill my insurance says I have to wait until day 25 before they can refill.

Life is difficult enough, huh? I read a lot of very negative stuff on this board about Walgreens and my opinion is you all should boycott them and go elsewhere if possible!

--------------------
"would you like to swing on a star, carry moonbeams home in a jar, and be better off than you are, or would you rather be a ....."


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Caveman6666
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Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 218
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: booker]
      #137517 - 02/15/04 06:21 AM

I've had this happen. Some pharmacists are not aware that some months have 31 days, and the 30th day will be one day short of its numerical equivilant from the previous month.

It'll work to your advantage in Feb. though.


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ML63
Member


Reged: 02/08/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate New York
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: kimbell1]
      #137537 - 02/15/04 08:25 AM

What all pharmacies should do is simply print the refill date on the bottle. Instead they print the date when the meds should be thrown out! (like THAT'S ever going to happen) All pharmacies have different ways of counting. A few years back before I started using an OP, I would have my scripts filled at Walgreens. The problem with Walgreens is that if you use the automated telephone refill system and you have any refills left, the computer voice tells you "Your prescription will be refilled". The computer asks you to set a pickup time and then tells you that the order is confirmed. What the computer doesn't tell you is if it's too early to refill. They unfortunately leave it up to the staff to figure it out. One time I requested a refill a day early and had no clue that they weren't going to fill it. No clue until I pulled up to the drive through window and was told over the loud speaker that they couldn't fill it early due to NYS law as well as the insurance company's policy. It was the classic sitcom situation of several other customers overhearing everything. Embarrassing to say the least.

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debbrad
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Reged: 11/06/03
Posts: 100
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: ML63]
      #137584 - 02/15/04 10:56 AM

I had a similar problem when I used the computer auto-refill service at Walgreens. It worked well a few times. When you log on, they show a list of all the scripts you had filled for at least 2 years. Really made me look like a druggie instead of a cper. I had surgery on my ankle and needed a refill awhile back. I used the system and waited for an e-mail saying it was filled, so my hubby could pick it up. I waited for 2 days for that e-mail. Anyway, I called my Dr to ask why he did not refill. He said he never got a fax or call from them. He called in a new one. After that he got 4 faxes for a refill for me. He thought it was me asking for more and called me to ask why I needed so much. Geesh! After so many hassels with these guys I vowed never to use them again. I don't cae if they are around the corner. I use my mom and pop that delivers if I need it. Of course my OP delivers too.
Happy Post Valentine's Day
Deb

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turcica
seeker


Reged: 12/21/03
Posts: 312
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #137591 - 02/15/04 11:14 AM

Great post as usual. You are a very smart person. Glad you are here to provide us with such good information. That aside, I have to ask ( I know this is off topic) who are you now (avatar)?. turcica

--------------------
turcica
The only failure is not knowing how to be happy
-------------------------------------------------


Edited by turcica (02/15/04 11:15 AM)


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Dasani
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Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: turcica]
      #138309 - 02/17/04 08:11 AM

Turnica,
I agree that Hoss provides us with some good information all the time, however, his level of intellect and grammar is far greater than I can comprehend. He has proven well enough that he is very intelligent, now I just wish he would speak in plain English from time to time, so I could better understand his posts, as they are very informative! I don't know, maybe it's just me? Being an Ive League School Graduate with a legal background, you would think I could comprehend some of his posts, but I guess not. Anyways, I too can't figure out if he's Clooney, Cruise, or the other actors that he has posted in his avatars, and we have yet to get a straight answer from him on this issue, even though je goes into great detail regarding everything else. OK NJ HOSS, come clean with it. And in plain English this time, please!! BTW, how did the wedding and honeymoon go?

M


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NJ_Hoss
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Posts: 263
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: Dasani]
      #138338 - 02/17/04 09:11 AM

I'm better looking than any of those posers! (Well, ok... except for maybe Ernest T. Bass) Plain enough English for ya?

The wedding and honeymoon were exceptional. Thanks or asking.


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Dasani
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Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #138366 - 02/17/04 10:40 AM

Hoss,

That was perfect....Short, sweet and to the point. I'm glad the wedding went well. Take care...

M


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sigmund
Member


Reged: 07/29/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Vienna
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: debbrad]
      #138494 - 02/17/04 03:01 PM

Debrad,
I found that ordering online from Walgreen's each month works better...it gives customer a little more control over their account in WG's immense database (that has people with same names, etc). Ordering Controlled medications has the potential for creating more problems, which may have
contributed to your issue. C-4s can have refills, but they are only valid for 6 months from the date on the script.
Then, it is necessary for them to fax your doctor and the monthly refill page will indicate such. Same with C-3s. C-2s (the stronger pain meds) must be filled within 7 days of the date on the script. Subsequent refills require a written script from doctor each month.
Getting back to your earlier problem, it's possible that a refill couldn't be issued because you were over the 6-month mark (if it were a C3 or 4. It would have been easier to follow-up the first attempted refill with a phone call (option "0") That would have prevented the wait, complications and the other hassles. I find them worth using for maintenance meds because have found them very competent with insurance. Hope this helps.
anna22

--------------------
how can you tell the Dreamer from the one who dreams the dream?


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Trampy
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Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1241
Loc: Southwest U.S.
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #138597 - 02/17/04 06:49 PM

Federal law does not require any waiting at all to refill a C-III or lower. I know someone who gets a scrip for 30 days of Xanax with the maximum 5 refills and she *always* asks for and receives all 5 refills at the same time as the original fill. That is, she walks out of the pharmacy with 180 days worth of Xanax. This won't work if you use insurance and it's at the discretion of the pharmacist who can call the doctor for an OK before doing it.

This pharmacy loves her because she pays with cash and always gets the brand name drug. She's never had a problem.

Some states might not allow it.

Trampy

----
Your mileage may vary ...


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Daycamp72
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Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Tara
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #138678 - 02/18/04 03:06 AM

Hoss: I continue to enjoy reading your informative and well written posts. My pharmacist owns a mom and pop that I always use. He tells me that the "government" regulates the date that he can refill Percocet. True?

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chevygal
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Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 504
Loc: Way down south
Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: Trampy]
      #138686 - 02/18/04 04:39 AM

asks for and receives all 5 refills at the same time as the original fill.

A few years back when my husband got his shoulder broke at work, the doc had given him hyro #60 with a refill. When I went to fill it I asked if I could just have it all at once so he didn't have to bother coming in again and I wouldn't have to run for it. They did it, but this was a bit over 2 yrs ago, don't know that they would do that any more.

I had a script for hydro that I filled at costco, this was over a year ago. I was doing my shopping for the month while I was in town and asked for my refill because I live about 45 miles outside of town, they very sternly told me NO. This was maybe a week early and I figured if they would fill it I would not have to make a special trip to town. No Way, they also looked at me with an evil eye when I asked this. I knew better than to do that again.
chevygal


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NJ_Hoss
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscription [Re: Daycamp72]
      #138712 - 02/18/04 06:41 AM

Percocet is a Schedule-II medication and cannot be refilled.

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zengaboyFB
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Reged: 01/07/04
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: chevygal]
      #138762 - 02/18/04 08:52 AM

It depends on the state, in New York you cannot get refills on ANY scheduled medications at least, CIV and CIIIs. (not sure about CVs. Are there any?) As well, Drs. can ONLY call in a 5 day supply of these meds and must forward a hard copy of the script. In other words NYS has adopted the Federal guidelines for CIIs for ALL scheduled meds. Dr.s need special scripts for C-meds, used to be triple scripts last year they changed to single scripts, but the pads are numbered and must be ordered from the state.

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Caveman6666
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139146 - 02/19/04 07:15 AM

Quote:

In other words NYS has adopted the Federal guidelines for CIIs for ALL scheduled meds.




Since when? Schedule III's have always been allowed refills.


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zengaboyFB
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: Caveman6666]
      #139169 - 02/19/04 07:43 AM

For years, as far I know. NYS pharmacy regs are some of the most restrictive in the country. I have had 2 different Drs tell me that due to state law they cannot give refills on CIII and CIV meds. I was seeing them every week for years so it was not to prevent med seeking. I actually have a unfilled script for a CIII at home I will look at it, I dont think there is box on the script for refills. I could be wrong. I have an appointment with a Dr. this afternoon. I will ask him. Z.

PS I am having a memory: CIII scripts expire after 30 days in NYS. It only takes 1 question to cause self-doubt.....


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Dasani
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139185 - 02/19/04 08:00 AM

Alot of doctors say that because they are chumps and afraid that a refill on a scheduled med will draw attention to them. Once again, another case of where the government has a doctor so scared of losing his license that he can't even do the right thing for the patient and undermedicates them. Stories like this Best if kept off the board me off to no end and are quite common nowadays. If you call his bluff on it, I can promise you he will give you more piles of BS as to why he can't do it. At that point I would ask him if he know what the "Hypocratic Oath" is? I wonder how he would respond to that one? The ask him if his malpractice insurance is paid up? Of course, don't bother saying any of this if you have a questionable medical problem (not that you don't have a valid problem, this is just a general statement to all who feel they've been undermedicated and poorly treated by a doctor)

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zengaboyFB
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: Dasani]
      #139192 - 02/19/04 08:18 AM

That may be true, however 1 of my Dr.s will post date scripts for me. I just checked NYS board of pharmacy. CIII-CIV scrpits expire after 30 days from when written, therefore there are no refills. New York is highly regulated....Z.

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shockstrap723
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Reged: 06/03/02
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139194 - 02/19/04 08:25 AM

With all due respect, I really don't think this is correct. My mom has osteoarthritis and she gets refills on her T-3's and Vicodin, in NYS. Unless it has changed in the last 2 or 3 months...
Perhaps your doctor is lying to you?? In order to rake it in for the office visits?


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zengaboyFB
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Reged: 01/07/04
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139199 - 02/19/04 08:39 AM

An update: for specific, pre-approved conditions Dr. can write refills, but the condition along with diagnosis codes must be specifed on the prescrition. For narcotic pain relief they can only write for 90 day supply. For steroids up to six month supply. THAT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!!!!!!!!
Z!


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NJ_Hoss
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139218 - 02/19/04 09:33 AM

Quote:

I just checked NYS board of pharmacy. CIII-CIV scrpits expire after 30 days from when written, therefore there are no refills.




That is incorrect. New York State does permit refills of controlled substance prescriptions, but they require a "wet signature" (written prescription); phoned prescriptions cannot be refilled. Any 30-day requirement would apply to the time fram in which the prescription must first be presented to the pharmacy for its original fill.


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zengaboyFB
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #139723 - 02/20/04 07:40 AM

See the above post. I dont know how it enforced but refills can only be written for specific pre-approved diagnosis. The Dr has to write the diagnosis ON the prescription, and there can only be 2 refills. In NYS the pharmacy is required to file the scripts and hold them for 5 years. They are forwarded to the authorities in Albany as well(NYS-BCS). The filing and forwarding is for ALL scheduled meds. The above is according to;Title 10 NYS Controlled Substance Regulation. NYS is a bit over the top when it comes to pharmacy regulation. Of course there are the Rockefeller drug laws....Z

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night_shade
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139973 - 02/20/04 06:08 PM

If your info is correct ZENGA, I can't imagine all the paperwork involved for doctors, pharmacists and pharmacy police! Who houses all those original scripts for 5 years, Fort Knox???

--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.


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lovepink
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Reged: 01/01/02
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: zengaboyFB]
      #139981 - 02/20/04 06:23 PM

Perhaps the diagnosis requirement is only for certain insurance companies? I've lived in NY for 25 years & have never had a diagnosis written on any prescription, controlled or not.

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NJ_Hoss
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: lovepink]
      #140006 - 02/20/04 07:24 PM

No, the aforementioned requirement, albeit perhaps not explicitly so, is part of every state's practice guidelines inasmuch as a prescription requires a valid condition it is intended to treat. Nevertheless, there is no requirement that this justification be presented before dispensing; it is simply a statement that it must exist to withstand audit.

New York is more stringent than most states in its controlled substance prescribing rules, but with the exception of not being able to phone refillable controlled substance prescriptions, for the most part, they are generally clerical in nature.


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lovepink
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: NJ_Hoss]
      #140024 - 02/20/04 08:18 PM

I'm not quite sure what you're attempting to tell me I'm incorrect about. Let me rephrase - Zengaboy posted that doctors are REQUIRED to write a patient's diagnosis ON the prescription. I maintain that it is NOT legally required or I would have seen a diagnosis on one of my controlled substance prescriptions at some point in the last 25 years.

Your post, far from contradicting mine, only strengthens my argument with your statement that Nevertheless, there is no requirement that this justification be presented before dispensing;


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zengaboyFB
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: lovepink]
      #140028 - 02/20/04 08:31 PM

They only require the diagnosis if they are authorizing refills, the sates site is down now, I will post it when it is back up. I assure you I not making this up. I will post the regulations and you an see for yourselves. Z.

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NJ_Hoss
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Re: Walgreens won't refill my last valid perscript [Re: lovepink]
      #140054 - 02/20/04 09:44 PM

Sorry. I responded to the wrong post in the thread.

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