Melody
Moderator
Reged: 03/20/03
Posts: 848
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
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Please use this thread to discuss Clonazepam - Klonopin.
Thanks
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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my pcp scripted 05mg 4 times a day. i choose that over valium and xanax becuz i am somewhat afraid of benzos. he told me it was really used as a anti seizure drug, but wotks well for anxiety. i am well aware of klonopin becoming habit forming and i have a major isssue to deal with on march 16, so i will see him march 17 and start the taper process. no way will i try and not do a taper with his help. the way the pcp put it its the least addicting of all benzos. from what i have read on the posts however this drug is seductive and i would not suddenly stop taking it. thank god i have a pcp who understands tapering and especially with benzos; just my experience
carol
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sleepymonkey76
Journeyman
Reged: 08/31/02
Posts: 89
Loc: Midwest, USA
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Anyone that says Clonazapam is a "safer" benzo is kidding you and themself. If used daily, over a long period of time chances are you'll have a tough time getting off of them completely. I was prescribed Phenobarbital by my GP to get off Clonazapam. After a three week taper it did the trick with MINIMAL side effects. Feel free to PM me for any furter details.
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"There's so much gravity,
in gravity."
-SleepyMonkey
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Listvoer
Old Hand
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 477
Loc: New America
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I"ve been down the benzodiazepine road to he11 more times than most, and can say that IME clonazepam IS far safer than xanax, valium, and some of the others because it doesn't seem to give the same strong 'buzz' that so many people learn to equate with relaxation, or the drug working. I'm on a much higher dosage of clonazepam, 4 MG 3x daily & 2 MG at bedtime, after 10-15 years of bouncing from one med to another, and can say that after being addictied to ativan, xanax, and valium, klonipin just has a 'feel' to it that makes much less mentally addictive. Actually, compared to the others I must admit that IME clonazepam basically has *no* feel to it so I have no desire to take more and abuse them. I take what is medically necessary and am content as can be with it, and my tolerance does not seem to keep escalating as it did with the others. I realize that to many, my dosage is a huge amount and absolutely not what they should attempt but under a doc's supervision a proper dose can be worked out. For once, I feel 'safe' with this benzo and not compelled to "take one, then just one more, then just one more.. then 'did i take one?' lets take 1 more just in case" as the others always tempted me to do. I"ve been stabalized on this dosage for some time, and I must say it has been a miracle for me. I know FAR TOO WELL the dangers of stopping benzos w/o a long taper and know it will take quite some time to work down from this regimen if I ever decide to, but for now they are doing nothing but helping me and I have no intentions of "fixing what ain't broken anymore."
You want to talk about he11, lets discuss a 3-year 50-100MG daily valium regimen that had to be tapered to zero with only 30 pills, over 2 weeks due to idiotic reasons...
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Survector
Newbie
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 38
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I just recently started a Klonopin regimen on Wednesday evening at 2mg per night before bedtime (for the past 3 nights in a row now). I'm noticing that I feel very irritable during the day and need to know if this will subside or if it is because I am not on a 'good' standard adjunctive antidepressant with it (I'm taking Stablon which is an SSRE (Selective Serotonin Reuptake *Enhancer* rather than an inhibitor). I used to be on various SSRIs and Effexor (which was a GOD send) but stopped them due to sexual side effects - hence why I switched to the french antidepressant Stablon which has no sexual side effects).
Traditionally, I remember Klonopin making me feel *great* with no side effects (I think I was on .5mg at the time along with Celexa or Serzone). Should I just continue on 2mg since I likely already have a tolerance? Would less perhaps do nothing at this point? The pills are 2mg and scored and it isn't easy to break into fours (into .5 mg dosages) without crumbling it into bits.
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Tantalus747
Stranger
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Should I just continue on 2mg since I likely already have a tolerance? Would less perhaps do nothing at this point? The pills are 2mg and scored and it isn't easy to break into fours (into .5 mg dosages) without crumbling it into bits.
Three nights isn't enough to develop too much of a tolerance. Klonopin has a long half-life, so it should be still having an effect the next day -- keep that in mind if you're trying to track its effect on you.
Imo, why quarter your current dose? Halving it would be what I'd try, but you and your doctor should decide what's best for you.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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well i am still on klonopin and i am at 2 05mg every 4 hours. my problem is this dr is saying you can take this all your life and never have problems, well my problem is i cant remember anything. i feel stupid, its like amnesia or something. i still feel its a safer drug than other benzos but all your life and its safe? time to change dr's. just my experience. is it just me or does this drug make you very tired?
carol
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 503
Loc: California
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Does your doctor work for Roche or something? I agree, it's time for a different opinion.
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xiolablue15
Journeyman
Reged: 03/17/04
Posts: 59
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Mermaid, what is it that you are taking klonipin for? maybe you need something completely different. if you have anxiety disorder you can also take buspar. this stuff doesn't make you tired at all. and on top of that, it isn't physically addictive. it's strange that your doc tells you to take 0.5mgs and you take it 4x a day. you'd think that because it lasts all day into the next that he'd just have you take one 2mg or 1mg twice a day. once in the morn and once before bed. yeah, klonipin makes me very drowsy. and i have had moments of blackouts too. then i have flashbacks about the day and i want to hide under a rock and never come out. so then my doc switched me to xanax. which is much better for me.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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this dr had 2 tablets 05mg every 4 hours. my mistake on dose
i am not trying to be a zombie!!
carol
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 503
Loc: California
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I'm still puzzled about the dosage schedule. K-pin's average half-life is about 24 hours. Taking 1 mg every 4 hours daily without breaks should lead to a very high steady-state plasma concentration and tolerance. If you need to dose every 4 hours you might as well be on alprazolam - four hours after a clonazepam dose, you're still at the peak from the last dose.
I am definitely not a doctor  but that sounds excessive to me. This line here:
Quote:
this dr is saying you can take this all your life and never have problems
really makes me wonder...call me a cautious benzo user I guess. I know for sure I wouldn't be able to function on the equivalent dosage of alprazolam, which has a much shorter half-life (I do currently take .5mg alprazolam 3x daily for GAD).
Edited by radiometer (03/31/04 02:40 AM)
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 503
Loc: California
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For those in this thread with an interest in reading about benzo-related problems, and extensive info on tapering:
http://www.benzo.org.uk
They are obviously a bit anti-biased, but their info on how to withdraw from benzos seems quite solid.
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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thnaks radiometer for that info. i am dropping down to one in the morning and one at night and leave it at that. i am not looking for trouble when none exists at this point. thanks again
carol
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 503
Loc: California
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Please do not change your regimen suddenly simply because of my opinion. My advice, though, is to seek the opinion of a doctor who understands benzo pharmacology better than the one you mention.
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flibble63
Stranger
Reged: 08/28/02
Posts: 13
Loc: Midwest
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I have taken all the benzos and Kpin is the strongest for me. It gave me a very drugged feeling even at 1/4 of a .5 pill. I tried it for 6 weeks and it was horrible. I always felt out of it. All day long I felt dizzy and confused plus it did nothing for my anxiety. I never got beyond one .5 pill a day broken into pieces. Would not be my first choice of benzos for anything. flibble
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mermaid72000
Member
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 125
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radiometer i am changing becuz actually i ordered the dr to change it just kidding asked, but it is still 3x a day. to the other poster i feel like idiot most of the time like where i am? i NEVER get up and go back to bed but on klonopin i have to. and that is one only!! i am so sick of pill taking i could pull my hair out but i just cut my hair so tht is not an option. my goal is to live a pill free life but i have been taking excedrin since 1977 and i wont give that up!!! anyone takes my excedrin i will freak!!! thanks for your advice and time to answer
take care
carol
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Survector
Newbie
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 38
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I'm currently taking 1 mg of Klonopin in the morning and 1 mg of Klonopin in the evening (at bedtime). I've only been on it for about 10 days now.
My question is, how long will I be able to stay at this dose without becoming extremely depressed/agitated - and will I be able to stay at this dose for at least the next several months without increasing it?
I use it as an adjunctive therapy with an antidepressant for anxiety and insomnia (in place of the antipsychotic Risperdal which I used to take for my insomnia). Anyone who has been on Klonopin long term before with positive results, please let me know.
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gondola
Member
Reged: 10/27/02
Posts: 115
Loc: UK
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I have been on Clonazepam for over 2 years - it has saved my life, no joke. I am also an imsomniac, so I take 2-6mg in the evening - I sleep about 2h after taking them, and even when I run out the half-life is long enough that I haven't had any withdrawal symptoms.
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Survector
Newbie
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 38
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Well, how long do you believe I'll be able to stay at 1 mg of Klonopin per night (for insomnia) before upping my dosage?
I've been taking it for about 12 days now at 1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening but just recently cut back to only 1 mg in the evening - *hoping* that this dose will hold out for a (long) while. I'm trying to conserve my supply so that it lasts as long as possible while still getting me to sleep at night (and controlling my anxiety during the day due to its long half-life).
Edited by Survector (04/04/04 05:44 PM)
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Listvoer
Old Hand
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 477
Loc: New America
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I'm with gondola on this one. I, too, am an insomniac so most days I take anywhere between 4MG & 8 MG depending of what kind of day it's been. I don't seem to have many of the side effects that i've had in the past with diazepam, alprozolam and lorazepam, and even bromazepam to far lesser degree. Nitrazepam and Clonazepam are the only 2 i've been able to handle for the long-term without it turning ugly or having to keep upping the dosage. My average day is that i'd take 2-4 MG with breakfast, then probably 2mg but possibly 4 more MG about 5 hours later, after lunch, then another 2 or 4 MG 4 or 5 hours later after dinner. That's about it until bedtime, where I will probably take 2mg along with 3 mg of melatonin and maybe (heaven forbid) a sip of wine or grey goose if the insomnia is out of control, but NEVER alcohol in even a moderate quantity. A couple sips and that's it. I've had this routine for quite some time and it's done wonders for leveling me out without zombifying me or totally messing with my memory like the SSRIs and tricyclics did to me. My regimin isn't for everyone, but after a decade of trying to find the right solution, I think i'm at least on the right track. Maybe winning the lottery would help with the insomnia and stress and i'd not need the clonazepam, but until then.... just ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have a more than adequate taper supply if you intend to or have had a long-term useage of the stuff. As long as you can taper sloooooooooly there's usually minimal trouble. Don't taper and you take your life in your own shaky hands...
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Seano
Journeyman
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Shelbyville
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Well, sooner rather than later, you will run out. And even long acting clonazepam kicks like a mule when it eventually drains out of your body. Luck to you, buddy, and keep that dosage as low as you can stand. Looking towards the future, you see, and thinking about those empty shelves...
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kandi
Threadhead
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 786
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
I"ve been down the benzodiazepine road to he11 more times than most, and can say that IME clonazepam IS far safer than xanax, valium, and some of the others because it doesn't seem to give the same strong 'buzz' that so many people learn to equate with relaxation, or the drug working. I'm on a much higher dosage of clonazepam, 4 MG 3x daily & 2 MG at bedtime, after 10-15 years of bouncing from one med to another, and can say that after being addictied to ativan, xanax, and valium, klonipin just has a 'feel' to it that makes much less mentally addictive. Actually, compared to the others I must admit that IME clonazepam basically has *no* feel to it so I have no desire to take more and abuse them. I take what is medically necessary and am content as can be with it, and my tolerance does not seem to keep escalating as it did with the others. I realize that to many, my dosage is a huge amount and absolutely not what they should attempt but under a doc's supervision a proper dose can be worked out. For once, I feel 'safe' with this benzo and not compelled to "take one, then just one more, then just one more.. then 'did i take one?' lets take 1 more just in case" as the others always tempted me to do. I"ve been stabalized on this dosage for some time, and I must say it has been a miracle for me. I know FAR TOO WELL the dangers of stopping benzos w/o a long taper and know it will take quite some time to work down from this regimen if I ever decide to, but for now they are doing nothing but helping me and I have no intentions of "fixing what ain't broken anymore."
You want to talk about he11, lets discuss a 3-year 50-100MG daily valium regimen that had to be tapered to zero with only 30 pills, over 2 weeks due to idiotic reasons...
I must agree with you wholeheartedly. After being on 4-6mg. of Xanax a day for almost two years, I am now on 2mg./day of Klonopin with great results. My PCP had no problem prescribing them for me, and like you, I feel no need to increase the dosage at all...unlike with Xanax. Since it is long-acting, I take the 2mg. about an hour before bedtime, sleep well, and feel fine all through the day. He feels that it is a great drug for longterm management of anxiety..as do I.
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Proud Mom of a United States Marine...SEMPER FI!
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kandi
Threadhead
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 786
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
I'm currently taking 1 mg of Klonopin in the morning and 1 mg of Klonopin in the evening (at bedtime). I've only been on it for about 10 days now.
My question is, how long will I be able to stay at this dose without becoming extremely depressed/agitated - and will I be able to stay at this dose for at least the next several months without increasing it?
I use it as an adjunctive therapy with an antidepressant for anxiety and insomnia (in place of the antipsychotic Risperdal which I used to take for my insomnia). Anyone who has been on Klonopin long term before with positive results, please let me know.
I have been on it for several months now, and find it to be a much better drug for longterm management of anxiety than Xanax. I take 2mg/day, but I take the entire dose about an hour or two before bedtime. It makes me sleep well, and since it has a long half life, it's anti-anxiety properties get me through the day without any problems...never wanted more than the prescribed dose either, unlike Xanax.
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Proud Mom of a United States Marine...SEMPER FI!
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Trampy
Oracle
Reged: 04/03/02
Posts: 1679
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
Well, how long do you believe I'll be able to stay at 1 mg of Klonopin per night (for insomnia) before upping my dosage?
I've been taking it for about 12 days now at 1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening but just recently cut back to only 1 mg in the evening - *hoping* that this dose will hold out for a (long) while. I'm trying to conserve my supply so that it lasts as long as possible while still getting me to sleep at night (and controlling my anxiety during the day due to its long half-life).
it might never happen. or it might take years or decades. everyone is different. but i think that if you expect to have those problems, you're increasing their odds of happening.
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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china61
Stranger
Reged: 11/30/02
Posts: 8
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Mermaid,that comes out to probably double the cost as.5 mg's are about 80% of the 1 mg's.I've been on Klonopin for 15 yrs.I hate it,but need it for anxiety.It definately clouds your mind,numbs your personality and makes you tired if not active,especially if laying around.For the other,2 mg at night is a lot,I'd play with it,like 1 mg at night and as needed during the day.2 mg's at night will give you a strong hangover causing irritability just from feeling so tired,cloudy
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Eeyore27
Old Hand
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 448
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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On the subject of weird side effects from taking Klonopin, mine just happened to include compulsive spending, if that makes any sense at all.
I was taking 1 mg Alprazolam prior to that, and I guess because my doctor was coming under heat for prescribing it too much (I wasn't the only patient she was prescribing it to), she decided to switch me to 2 mg Klonopin instead. I was taking half in the morning and half at night, as directed by my doc. That lasted for about a month, and in that month, I managed to drain most of my bank account and maxing out my credit cards ordering stuff off of ebay that I most definitely didn't need. That's not even getting into the strange, vivid dreams I was having while I was on it, either.
After coming out of my Klonopin induced haze, I went back to her and demanded to be put back on Alprazolam. She was pretty accomidating with that for me, but then I lost my job/medical insurance. Life's a "female dog" when you're dealing with anxiety disorder, let me tell ya.
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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Laurelolo23
Journeyman
Reged: 02/24/04
Posts: 52
Loc: D.C.
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Hi Mermaid,
Yes, any benzo will make you "feel stupid," i.e. short-term memory loss, problems remembering words when you used to be a walking thesaurus/dictionary, etc. What I don't get is your doc having you take it every four hours--its one of the longest lasting benzos available. I take 0.5 mg in the morning, 1 mg eight hours later and 2 mgs before I go to sleep. No problems with that dosing schedule.
As far as what your doctor is saying about the addictiveness of the drug--it definitely is true. Those with shorter metabolic half-lives like valium or xanax are very addictive, and should really only be used for short periods of time; while klonopin can be taken for long periods (seizures and PTSD), quite safely, but still need a tapering period if you are going to stop taking them.
How long have you been taking clonazepam? It should only take a week or two for all the side effects to go away, like the tiredness and feeling spacey. And remember--doctors don't know everything; especially if their medical training was in the 60's and 70's---I've had to explain what some of the newer drugs and what they were for to 'old docs.'
This is not a drug to take your entire life--just until the seizure disorder calms down, or six months of PTSD counselling finally works. Unless its insulin, nothing should be taken your entire life!
word,
Lolo
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The last time somebody said, "I find I can write much better with a word processor," I replied, "They used to say the same thing about drugs."-Roy Blount Jr.
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skytalker
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/04
Posts: 39
Loc: a nice place to live
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Hi
Do not know if I can agree with Lolo here in entirety, although I do appreciate her positive attitude. For example, many people who have a history of panic attacks and severe anxiety would rather be dead than live like that. Epileptics need their med not to seizure. Hypertense elderly folks need meds not to have a heart attack. Thyroid people need their meds. Anemics need iron. What about choleserol roblems for older folks? Then there is the world of anti-depressants... talk about deception and wrong use of medication!
We all have different body chemistries and many of us need some kind of balancing in order to deal with this abomination of a polluted society. So, I would be very careful in generalizing. Med treatment is specific to what works and who is to say what is right... maybe a person just needs more B vitamins, but the fact is there that many of our chemistries are severly compromised by pollution and anxiety that is directly the result of how we live in this weird world. Who knows what is polluted or poisoned... even meds like vioxx are now considered dangerous.
And I do not agree at all that "benzo's make you feel stupid". The worst drug I know of that makes you feel stupid is alcohol and that is legal (and have fun wd from that sucker). My experience with benzo's (and it is different for all) is that they calm me and make me very clear in my thinking and writing. Yes, they are addictive in that the wd's are terrible... but I never got high off of them... I just never had panic attacks or tremendous anxiety or insomnia while using them. Frankly, I think benzos are a great med and agree with what I once read that the only bad side effect is withdrawal (and that can be handled if done correctly)!
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fishinpanic
Newbie
Reged: 05/23/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Colorado
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I've been on 4 mg a day for about a year. 2 when I get up, two before bed. I find that works out best for me to keep my anxiety stable throughout the day.
I'm prescribed Xanax too, but only for really stressful times. Xanax will make me feel great but I'll be a little out of it. I can maintain well on Klonopin.
However, I am a bit scared of how/when I'll get off of it. I have an addictive personality so it'll be tough.
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dsmmcm
Veteran
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 583
Loc: southwest US
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Quote:
Unless its insulin, nothing should be taken your entire life!
This has to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read. As skytalker said, there are MANY conditions which require medication for life. Thyroid is a great example.
D.
Edited by dsmmcm (11/18/04 10:27 PM)
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