needinfo
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Granted, I did not spend a lot of time doing legal research but here is a link that shows that tramadol is a non-scheduled prescription only drug under Federal law. The various states may have differing laws, rules and regulations.
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/tramadol/tramadol_law.shtml
Edited to add the FDA link showing it is RX and not OTC. It is NOT a scheduled (controlled) drug but it IS a regulated, i.e. RX needed to buy it legally. No federal penalty for possession. State laws may vary.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/ob/docs/temptndet.cfm?Appl_No=020281&TABLE1=Rx
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The older I get the more I NEEDINFO.
Edited by needinfo (04/24/03 09:27 AM)
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Billyl
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I believe the debate is about the need for a prescription for non-scheduled mediactions which Ultram is. I would suggest reading the DEA pharmacists manual located at the DEA website. To legally dispense this medication a prescription is required. It is not an over the counter medication. There is also a section on how pharmacists can provide emergency dispensing that must be recorded to people that walk in. It is rarely done. There are also many state laws that describe a precription and what is entailed to legally dispense any medications scheduled or non-scheduled. Ultram is not something you can buy at GNC or your local head shop and is not considered a suppliment and therefore doesn't follow FDA rules governing suppliments. Take care. Billylll
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AngelRat
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Hate to be a party-pooper, but you actually can possess it without a prescription (just like a lasix). Go figure.
Tramadol Law
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I'm floating around like a chicken with my legs cut off. I am the poultrygeist. Goo goo g' joob, and a cockadoodle BOO to you dude.
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Billyl
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Erowid's is the worst place to check the status of laws. I suggest FDA and DEA and then State by State laws. Erowid's tends to be outdated and under researched when it comes to law. However did you even read what was stated on the Eowids site? Here it is copied and pasted I guess I read the same thing you did what am I missing? The statement it that they can not verify state law shows they haven't got a clue.
U.S. FEDERAL LEGAL STATUS
LEGAL STATUS prescription only
SCHEDULE unscheduled
Tramadol (Ultram) is unscheduled by federal law in the United States, but is available by prescription only. This means that sales are regulated by the FDA, but possession is not illegal even without a prescription. Tramadol may be controlled under some state laws, but we have not been able to verify that
Take care. Billylll
Edited by Billyl (04/24/03 08:51 AM)
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mello
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If someone can show me data from an actual legitimate site (DEA, FDA, etc) I will admit I am wrong. I don't necessarily find info from a site called "The Vaults of Erowid" something I would consider factual data.
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AngelRat
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This is not a tramadol specific thing, really. This applies to all substances that are merely controlled. A merely controlled substance cannot be sold without, but can be possessed without a prescription. For example, high blood pressure medicine, and thyroid medicine, etc., are controlled substances that can't be purchased without a prescription. However, if you were to "find" a box of zestril in the garage of your newly purchased home (or stumble upon it in some other way), you could keep it without fear of getting busted. It is entirely legal to do so. However, when a med is both controlled *and* scheduled, it can neither be purchased nor possessed without a prescription. This covers your opioids and stuff. I believe ultram will eventually be scheduled, but until it is, it's merely controlled. Believe it or not, 9 out of 10 cops go to erowid for dope facts. They had a piece about it on dateline or 20/20 showing the cops doing research via erowid... Oh great. I'll hunt around and see if I can't find something more conventional though.
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I'm floating around like a chicken with my legs cut off. I am the poultrygeist. Goo goo g' joob, and a cockadoodle BOO to you dude.
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needinfo
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NO. A controlled substance or a scheduled substance is one that is listed in the Controlled Substances Act. It has five (5) classifications or schedules.
Some controlled substances are always illegal such as cocaine. Xanax is a controlled substance but it requires a prescription to purchase AND possess.
A RX drug is one that the FDA requires a prescription to dispense. You can possess them without a prescription as there is no penalty. Since the drugstores cannot legally SELL them without a prescription you cannot legally BUY them without a prescription but, again, there is no penalty for possessing a non-controlled but nonetheless PRESCRIPTION drug.
Again, state laws vary.
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The older I get the more I NEEDINFO.
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AngelRat
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No what? There are controlled substances. There are scheduled substances. There are both controlled and scheduled substances. Controlled substances "that are always illegal like cocaine" are also scheduled as well (schedule II - note it is legally used by medical professionals). Xanax requires a prescription to purchase and possess because it is scheduled too (schedule IV dude). Being scheduled as well as controlled is the key. Tramadol and many other drugs are controlled but unscheduled and thus require a prescription to purchase but not to keep. I know, it's a paradox. 
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I'm floating around like a chicken with my legs cut off. I am the poultrygeist. Goo goo g' joob, and a cockadoodle BOO to you dude.
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Billyl
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They go to Erowid to look for non scheduled drugs and substances that are abused to issue emergency DEA orders to get them scheduled. It is not where law enforcement researches law. Also your anaolgy of your home would not be the same as having non scheduled drugs on your person or automobile. They are not afforded the legal protections one has in their home. Take care. Billylll
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Billyl
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Maybe this will help further confuse everyone. Take care. Billylll
Before passage of the 1938 act, patients could acquire from pharmacists any nonnarcotic drug without a prescription order. Patients who felt ill could obtain a medication order from a physician or could instead consult a pharmacist. Pharmacists could make recommendations for patients, and they could dispense a drug simply because a patient requested it. In this way, patients, physicians, and pharmacists shared responsibility for the acquisition and use of nonnarcotic drugs. In late 1938, several months after the new act took effect, FDA set in motion a series of events that would take this responsibility away from patients and pharmacists and concentrate it in the hands of physicians.
FDA interpreted the 1938 acts exemption from labeling disclosure requirements to mean that, among other conditions, if a drug was dispensed pursuant to a prescription order, then it need not be labeled with directions and warnings.4 To be sure that a drug would be dispensed pursuant to a prescription order, FDA required that the label bear a prescription-only warning, that other warnings be directed to health care professionals, and that the drugs be shipped solely for sale pursuant to a prescription. The federal legend was thus born, separating so-called legend and nonlegend drugs. By permitting manufacturers to label their products, Caution: To be used only by or on the prescription of a _____ (with the blank to be filled in with physician, dentist, or veterinarian), FDA permitted manufacturers to create a class of drugs that could not be used without a prescription.
This FDA interpretation was not discussed when Congress passed the 1938 act. It was not specifically authorized under the act, and it was taken without an opportunity for comment or compromise. Over the next several years, things began to sort themselves out with little coordinated input from pharmacists into their professions own governance. During World War II, attentions were apparently turned to other matters. The difficulty some pharmacists faced in practice was that the labeling of pharmaceuticals determined the standard for dispensing (with or without a prescription order), and this standard was applied in different ways by different manufacturers. One manufacturer of a drug might choose to use the federal legend, while another manufacturer of the same drug might choose not to. It is hard to imagine how the most fundamental of pharmacist responsibilities could be left to the whims of a manufacturers marketing decisions.
The chaotic situation pharmacists faced in practice was put in order by the Supreme Court in 1948. In United States v Sullivan,5 the Court affirmed the conviction of a pharmacist who had dispensed, without a prescription order, a medication that bore the federal prescription legend when received from the manufacturer. Never mind that the same medication made by other manufacturers did not bear the legend and would not have led to a prosecution. This case established the important principle that federal law applies to the dispensing of a medication by a pharmacist to a patient within a state. It may be counterintuitive to believe that this intrastate transaction could be considered interstate commerce subject to federal regulation under the provisions of Article 1 of the Constitution, but the Court held that it was. The most significant aspect of this case was the courts firm recognition that FDA and the pharmaceutical manufacturers had authority to assign to physiciansat the expense of pharmacists and patientscomplete responsibility for controlling patients acquisition of the most useful medications.
The legislative reaction to this development was not what one might have expected. Rather than opposing it or seeking a compromise based on decades of responsibility over decisions about medication use, many pharmacists embraced it and sought to institutionalize it. Senator Hubert Humphrey and Congressman Carl Durham, both pharmacists, introduced legislation that would, for the first time ever, formally establish a uniform prescription-only class of drugs.6 This legislation took effect in 1952 and led to the clear separation of dispensing pharmacists from prescribing physicians.
Why would some pharmacists be so eager to limit themselves in this way? Perhaps the answer lies in the provisions of the act regulating dispensing of refills and verbal authorization to dispense. Before 1952 it was not clear that refills could be legally authorized or that any order other than a written order was legally sufficient as a prescription. The DurhamHumphrey amendment to the FDCA clarified that refills and verbal orders were clearly permissible under the law. Apparently, the tradeoff for this concession was relinquishment of any claim of responsibility pharmacists may have had on initiation of therapy. The amendment carved out a safe harbor for pharmacists, who were made secure in their dispensing role but utterly excluded from primary decisions about medication use.
By 1952 pharmacists had become, through governance, what they sought to be: respected custodians of the nations drug supply, at the tail end of the chain of distribution. This is an important role, but not a fulfillment of the promise of the profession in 1902, when an expansive patient-oriented practice appeared to be developing. Pharmacists had given over to physicians primary responsibility for making decisions about drug therapy. It would take another half-century for pharmacists to begin taking this responsibility back.
David B. Brushwood, JD, is a pharmacist and professor of pharmacy health care administration, College of Pharmacy, University of Florida, Gainesville.
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needinfo
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Semantics are confusing everyone. I use the term "controlled substance" or "scheduled substance" in the same context as the Controlled Substances Act.
There are OTC drugs that are "regulated" by the FDA that are not "controlled." There are also "prescription" drugs that are both "controlled" and "non-controlled" substances. All are "regulated" by the FDA.
Ultram (tramadol), as shown by my link to the FDA in an earlier post, is not a "controlled" substance (yet) within the meaning of the Controlled Substances Act. It is a "prescription" drug and requires a prescription for the druggist to legally sell it to you. There is no federal penalty for possessing it or hundreds of other prescription (but not "controlled") drugs without a prescription, though.
Certainly Ultram and all drugs are "regulated" by the FDA. Some are never legal, some are controlled, some are prescription only, and some are over the counter.
I am now tired of this thread.
Good bye and good luck all.
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The older I get the more I NEEDINFO.
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Murple
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Billyl
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I just checked all your posts in this forum. I don't see the federal code you showed anywhere. Did I miss something? Title 21 code is only for scheduled medications. In my state and all the states that surround me it is a misdameanor to have a prescription medication (non-scheduled) on your possesion without the bottle having a label bearing your, the recipiants name. What is your point? Take care. Billylll
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mello
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Post deleted by Mod
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DTZNuff
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No, no, no, Tramadol is not controlled. Maybe in some states but where I am from it's not and I love that I can get as much as I want and I works very well for me.
P.S. A famous three lettered online catalog used to sell it for something like $25 for 10 grams (called it a research chemical) but the feds came down on them for selling it without a prescription. Wished I could have got my hands on some of that!!!
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Serenity Now, Insanity Later! 
Edited by neogreg (04/25/03 08:54 AM)
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mello
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I think that's the one and only thing that everyone in this thread agrees upon...that Tramadol is not controlled. That question was answered many, many posts ago before this thread turned into this craziness.
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Billyl
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I never said Tramadol or Ultram was controlled. The whole debate is the legality of possesing a prescription medication without a prescription. One thing is for sure it can not be dispensed without a prescription or emergency written record from a doctor or rarely a pharmacist. The penalty for possesion varies from state to state the ones I could research it is a minor (misdamenor) offense and the offense is not specific to any drug. Take care. Billylll
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Murple
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Quote:
I don't see the federal code you showed anywhere. Did I miss something? Title 21 code is only for scheduled medications.
Thats because I didn't quote it, simply pointed it out. Also the relevant laws arent in the CSA but in the Food & Drug Act. If you want to read it, its online plenty of places. I'm not doing your homework for you.
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Murple
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Quote:
A famous three lettered online catalog used to sell it for something like $25 for 10 grams (called it a research chemical) but the feds came down on them for selling it without a prescription.
Tramadol actually wasn't one of the things they were charged with I don't think... though they did get charged for selling other medications without proper labelling (clenbuterol, L-dopa, etc). Tramadol mightve been in there but from the list of charges I read, I don't remember seeing that one on there.
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AngelRat
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Semantics have caused many a battle, like when individuals storm into social security offices asking "What do you mean I'm NOT disabled." Of course, the Social Security Act has a very narrow definition of disability which isn't going to jibe the literal definition used by most people. As usual, the government is to blame for many schisms under the sun.
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I'm floating around like a chicken with my legs cut off. I am the poultrygeist. Goo goo g' joob, and a cockadoodle BOO to you dude.
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