Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Yikes. Yesterday was my first day without any hydro or ativan. I decided to take a break from the hydro as I feel I am starting to feel effects of W/D when it wears off. Last night at bedtime I got the brilliant idea I would take a break from my ativan as well. Well, I had the worst case of RLS I've had in quite some time and it was not just my legs, but all over my body! I go from hot to cold and get all sweaty. At 3:00 I finally decided to get out of bed so I wouldn't wake my husband up. This is not a good thing since I have a full day of running errands, I'm sure I'll be a zombie by tonight. Anyway, I decided to take my old time favorite clonazepam, I started with 1 mg. and when that didn't do anything I took another one (total 1.5 mg.) and I feel really weird right now. It didn't do much for me at all. I felt like I wanted to sleep, but couldn't stop moving around. Guess I should have taken an ambien instead but then again I've taken TWO of those at a time with no results.
Anyway, sorry to ramble in the middle of the night. I guess it will be some entertainment for you all in the morning over your cup of coffee. LOL
Sure is a pain in the behind to take a hydro holiday, totally messed up my "routine." Oh well, like my beloved mother used to say "no one ever said life would be easy." Man, I wish I would have listened to her more often.
Have a great day people.
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Jordan530
WonderWoman
Reged: 11/20/02
Posts: 597
Loc: The Left Coast of Florida
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Kathy, I'm so sorry to hear that you're feeling so bad. Hang in there friend! I wish I had some words of wisdom to offer but I've never taken a hydro holiday myself...yet. With our upcoming move and everything that needs to be done, I figured now is NOT a good time to do it.
If you need to talk to someone, PM as I am up worrying about our move. LOL
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'A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand'
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537
Threadhead
Reged: 12/08/01
Posts: 774
Loc: west coast CA
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I know exactly how you feel. When I've taken a break from hydro, I reallty dread the Restless Body Feeling I get, and it always seems so much worse at 2:00 am. Now, what i do when I'm going to take a break, is taper. For me, it works pretty well. Also, maybe if you're feeling really bad, you could just try a half a hydro to help you get some sleep. Anyway, I wish you good luck on this very hard task. Hope you feel better.
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michelinboy
Stranger
Reged: 04/08/03
Posts: 12
Loc: South Florida, baby :)
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How often and for how long should one take a "Hydro Holiday"? Wish it was a recognized federal holiday so I won't be achy all day at work 
Mich
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~I always trust my life with a SIG~
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ewebp
Veteran
Reged: 12/13/01
Posts: 593
Loc: midwest
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Kathy,
I understand your situation because I too feel like taking holidays from my meds and I often do. I have found that I can bear the w/d's from hydro as long as I taper off. I seem to get flu-like symptoms after quitting opiates, but after the w/d's are over and I am miserable with pain again, I remember why I need them.
Benzos are a different story. I learned a long time ago, the hard way, that this is entirely a different ball game. The only way to quit benzos is to taper off and even when you do, it is extremely uncomfortable. After being prescribed and taking xanax for a couple of years and tapering off slowly from them, I have learned my lesson. I always tell my friends that are being prescribed any benzo, if you can take 2-3 days off of them a week, do it. So when your day comes when it is time to quit or you want to take a break, it will make things so much easier.
Hang in there.
-EW
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CHEESE
Veteran
Reged: 01/02/02
Posts: 569
Loc: U.S.A.
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I'm taking a hydro& oc BREAK RIGHT NOW (2ND DAY ) I take some ultram or darvon to help with W/D. I take a valuim at night to sleep during the BREAK. EVERTHINGS BEEN GOOD SO-FAR , GOOD LUCK KATHY , I HOPE YOU FEEL BETER IN A FEW DAYS? CHEESE 
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mslily
Board Addict
Reged: 09/06/02
Posts: 322
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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Hang in there! I think that it is good for your body to detox if you feel that you need that break. Personally, the only time I have taken a break from hydro in 3 years was when I was pregnant with my daughter (she is 22 months now). That and the Soma for muscle spasms during the night went out the window, but luckily for me, the surge in my hormone levels magically helped to dull my chronic back pain. Sorry for the ramble here...I hope that you get through this much needed break with few problems.
Candice
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mello
Old Hand
Reged: 11/02/02
Posts: 479
Loc: USA
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That is so funny that you mentioned that...my back pain was also dulled during pregancy! I thought that was strange bacause I always here these women talking about how badly their back hurt while pregnant, but mine felt much better! Hormones do some crazy things...
I am getting ready for a hydro break ...and I am starting to taper. I can already feel the flu-like symptoms coming on...I've felt clammy and go from hot to cold in seconds...it sucks!!!
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novashok88
Banned
Reged: 12/17/01
Posts: 301
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Be extremely, *extremely* cautious about stopping the ativan cold-turkey. Even if you're taking a very low dose, if you have been taking it for more than a few weeks it can be dangerous. Do a web search for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome. Opiate breaks may make you feel like you're dying, but benzo breaks can actually kill. Since you stopped both meds at the same time, it could be one, the other, or both that is causing your weird feelings. It it were me, i would probably try a test of just stopping the hydro for a day or 2 if you can stand it while continuing as normal with the ativan and see how that feels. Then, do the opposite, take a 1 day break from the ativan and stay on the hydro and see if you feel any problems. At least this way you can somewhat determine which substance might be causing the problems, or whether it's both or neither. Just don't do that in a 2 or 3 day period. Try a break from hydro, then go back to the regular routine until you feel 'normal' again, THEN try a 1 day break from the ativan. With the hydro you don't have much more to worry abuot during the break than stomach problems at both ends, fever, cold-sweats, and other flu-like symptoms. Benzo w/d is a strange beast and the symptoms often don't seem to have anything at all to do with the drug of the lack of. If it's the ativan that's a problem then i'd recommend talking to your doc about how to safely get off of it, if that's what needs to be done. Beware though, because many docs don't seem to understand the dangers of benzodiazepine withdrawal in certain people. Poision Control told someone I know who stopped xanax cold-turkey that if it'd been 36 hours and he was still OK, then there was nothing to worry about. 2 days later he had a seizure while driving from the xanax W/D and nearly was killed. Please be careful.
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quincy
Board Addict
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 333
Loc: pacific northwest
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You know, I am also starting to feel a little "withdrawly" after about 4 or 5 hours since my last hydro dose. I take 10-20mg at a time, usually three or four times a day. I feel like Im starting to get the cold chills and feel real tired. I know that sounds really bad, but the hydro picks me up. I just hate being in pain at all, so I have been taking this dose for a few months and have really been feeling better. I just realized that I have become dependant on them-but I feel like its OK because they stop my pain, which allows me to go to work and to take care of my son and enjoy life again. I have stopped taking Valium because Im scared of dependance on those, but when Legitmate said she was starting to feel W/D symptoms when the hydro starts to wear off, I realized the same thing have been happening to me too. I suppose I could take a holiday, but dammit-they really help the pain! Doctors don't realize that us patients go through turmoil too about taking opiates or any addictive medicines. We do start to get dependant on it-just to live normal lives! I guess I could handle withdrawl, it sucks, but sometimes necessary. But in our cases, is it really necessary? We are pain patients, and we should not feel guilty about needing this medication or even depending on it. I mean, if you are taking it just for the "buzz" or to releive some emotional pain, then you definetly should re-evaluate why you take painkillers. But for us with real, diagnosed diseases its hard. OP's make it so much easier for us to obtain the meds we need, but we must become more responsible and aware of what we are putting into our bodies, and respect the potential for abuse. I applaud all of you who have the courage and integrity enough to take holidays when you feel yourself getting to dependant on them. I am really working on this myself, and its hard as hell to cut down or stop, because you know when you do that you will get sick, plus all that pain will come rushing back. But you know you have to or else the meds will stop working and you will be chasing the dragon on that elusive road of pain control. What most of us need are longer acting meds- and proper pain docs. Op's are lifesavers, but they really can't take the place of a good, compassionate pain doctor. Oh- don't get me started...but Im recognizing these same things legitimate, and I know that I need a vacation very soon. Good Luck and hope you feel better.
Q
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chowpei
Newbie
Reged: 01/08/03
Posts: 47
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I posted this in another forum. Hope it helps
I think its a great idea. I recently went cold turkey from my hydrocodone meds just to take a break as tolerance was building up. Sure I will be in pain, but I dont want to be dependant on these drugs all my life. Summer is coming and although the pain will be around, the nice warm weather and some ultram will help me for a few months break.
I had to read a bit to find info on how to get off the hydros as I didnt want to pay to go to the doc again. Having no insurance does suck. Anyways, my current regimine although most might argue with this is
1. wake up, take a hot shower, and drink some coffee or green tea, usually coffee =)
2. take a couple doses of immodium ad as it can help ease the withdrawal effects during the day.
3. go exercise, walk or walk the dog for an hour or so. eat a nice meal, or possibly soup as your appetite might not be good
4. Get your mind off the meds and pain, by doing some kind of activities, i.e go watch to the movies, go to the local casino, fishing etc..
5. night time, eat some dinner, take a break. Take another dose of immodium ad and fill tub with hot water and take a long bath to ease the pain, and to relax the muscles.
6. If you have some benzos handy, take a dose, and read a book or mag sitting down on the couch. When the effects starts, go to sleep. No benzos? Try some otc meds, i.e benedryl or unisom which has benedryl. These meds dont work for me, but it might work for you.
The worst part of the withdrawal for me is the achy shoulders and legs when I go to sleep, and during the day. As long I keep myself active during the day, the achyness goes away via placebo.
I hope this works for you, and this faq might need some work, but this is my regimine for quitting cold turkey. Maybe this post can be moved to the new addiction forum once its created =P
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Gottajiboo
My Title Rocks
Reged: 05/01/02
Posts: 988
Loc: ...Chicago...
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Kath, I take breaks from hydro every 6 weeks and I do it because i think my body might need sometime to its self or to clense myself from these things. Everytime I do this I get really shakey the most recent time was a couple of weeks back and I go 10 ten days but for me after like 5 things start to feel better and its so hard when I have a bottle in my house and Im just neglecting them. The pay off is huge and when you decide to go back on the power of the hydro will increase intensley. I would say good luck here normally but you are a very smart perosn and the last thing you need is luck so take care and we will talk soon or if you have any questions you know where to find me...bye
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...It's not the size of the hammer It's the nail you're throwing it at...
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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You all are SO helpful! It's easier just knowing other people care and understand. I've taken the advice of several here, decided not to stop the Ativan as well and that's helping. The hot bubble bath helped quite a bit as well plus I had no choice but to be very active today so I'm quite certain I will sleep tonight! I will continue my "holiday" and hang in there, as Phil said it's worth it when you start up again. The pain is tolerable so far and I did receive my Codeisan sample from Biotran today and I also have some Ultram coming which I know will help, I really prefer that. Of course, it doesn't help I'm having PMS at the same time :crazy: (sorry guys.)
Again, thanks for the support and advice, I appreciate it so much!
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chowpei
Newbie
Reged: 01/08/03
Posts: 47
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The ultram will work and will come in handy for the pain, good luck with your break. After the 4th or 5th day, everything will be fine and dandy. The bath is a must before you sleep to relax your muscles as they will be tight and will make you uncomfortable, making it hard to sleep. So how long has it been since your last hydro dose?
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Tuesday PM was my last dose. Yes, the bath was wonderful - I was actually pondering sleeping in there but the water would turn cold eventually Thanks again for your advice, it's been most helpful. Very, very hard to push yourself to do anything physical, but it really does feel better afterward.
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ewebp
Veteran
Reged: 12/13/01
Posts: 593
Loc: midwest
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LOL...that regimen sounds awesome. I might just quit my job and start following those directions!
-EW
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1211
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Yeah that regimen does sound awsome, chowpei, and also very familiar! I have been reading this thread all day, and have been hesitant to post. I have never taken hydrocodone, or it's big brother oxycontin. I take codeisan or perduetas, along with a couple of alka seltzer, when my back flares up, a regular but not everyday occurence. Codeine is junior-league as far as pain meds, but I am really afraid that if I started on hydro thrrough a consult, I might like it too much, and find it hard to stop.
I have posted in other threads about my past recreational opiate addiction, (which I put to a stop 3 years ago thanks to intervention, detox and rehab), and naturally the symptoms of withdrawl closely parallell what you are experienceing in your "Hydro Holiday". At some point I realized it would be a good idea to take a "heroin holiday" once in a while, not due to tolerance but to demonstrate that I was in still in control and could stop whenever I wanted. Long HOT baths worked wonders for me, and having a xanax or a valium at hand can make a big difference. Good healthy hot meals are an essential, long walks or bike rides to get the system pumping.
For me the experience of opiate withdrawl is kind of like a combination of Jet Lag and the flu, you do suffer badly but the worst is over in a few days. My very favorite place to endure withdrawl symptoms was in a good hotel, preferably one on a different continent, where I would lie in bed, order roomservice and watch TV, and pretend to myself that I was experienceing really severe jet lag!
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fafhrd
Stranger
Reged: 11/19/02
Posts: 10
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Wow! Restless Body Feeling. That's brilliant. I thought I was going nuts. That term describes the feeling perfectly. I had never had opiate withdrawal until recently. At least now I know what I am dealing with. My wife kicked me out of bed because all my thrashing around was keeping her up. I started putting a plastic deck chair in the shower and sitting in there til the hot water runs out. (Hate baths) Read a hefty bestseller in two nights. Finally sleeping again after 3 days.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Wow, it's really been amazing reading this thread and realizing how many people are going through, or have gone through, the same thing, same symptoms, etc. I love the hotel idea. My husband of course has no idea I use hydro as much as I do, so I can't complain of this to him. Would be great to sit it out in a hotel some where ordering room service! Oh well.
Thanks again folks for all the feedback. Now I have to deal with the in-laws for the weekend
Can anybody say valium???
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uga81
Enthusiast
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 223
Loc: North Georgia
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Hang in there! Tylenol PM is pretty good stuff for that sleeplessness. I know a few sources you can it get from. HaHa! Laugh a little, it's the best med.
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"Life is tough. It's tougher if you are stupid." John Wayne
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TLT
Board Addict
Reged: 10/21/02
Posts: 358
Loc: loc. usa
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Hi kathy,, are you still on your holiday break??
It is a good ideal to give yourself a break, every once in a while. When I first started taking pain meds, I would sometimes over medicate myself, to the point that I would run out early, before my refill was due. It is not a good feeling. I think it would be a lot easier to take a break, as soon as you get your new script filled. Therefore you are not worried about going into w/d's and not being able to minimize the symptoms.
I learned the hard way,, I never want to be in w/d ever again, It was worse than any flu I have ever had.
TLT
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"RUDENESS IS THE WEAK MANS IMITATION OF STRENGTH"
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 637
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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Hi..I take a 'Holiday Break" kind for a week or so every 30 days but I am still on the derigesic patch (50ug/h) so I guess I really don't think it's a total break... ...I am really not sure how to take a break from that but am going to ask my PMD doc next week about it...I am putting on my patch every 48 hours ..but on my "break" I wait the full 72 wich was what I started on..doc increased it cause it did't work...but I find Soma really helps me..when I am going through this. Sleep is the best thing for you and that is VERY hard to come by at the 1-3 day stage..you just have to be carefull on the soma so you don't take one for the other...so good luck..by now you should be feeling better...I have a question on another thread but will wait an answer I just wanted to chime in and say first..."Happy Easter" for those whom celebreate and good luck Kathy...love reading your posts...keep it up and your doing a great job today..take it day to day...Boobetty
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living with pain is not living at all. Boo
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
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Yes, still on "holiday" and thought I would give you all an update. This is day 6 without any hydro. I'm feeling much better and survived the ordeal! Last night was really my first night I didn't wake up with that awful "restless body" thing going on and I slept quite well. Feeling more like my old self now, but of course the pain hasn't gone away. Thankfully, I was able to obtain some Ultram and it's helping tremendously!! I can say one thing...it's amazing how constipating hydrocodone truly is. That's a lot of toxic build up in your system and you're bound not to feel good just because of that. Not to get gross here, but that's one big observation I made.
Anyway, thanks all for your concern and helpful hints! I made it and I'm feeling pretty darn good for a change. Like somebody said above, it's only miserable for about 5 days but there are a lot of things you can do to lessen the symptoms of W/D.
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clark116
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 221
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Why immodium? Just wondering.
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I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!
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toe
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 1437
Loc: MidWest USA
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Thank goodness you took Nova's advice about the ativan. You don't want to be dealing with both of these at once and we all know the horror stories about quitting benzos cold turkey!
Good luck and hang in there!
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"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ."
-REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe
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zeuzjuz
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: the milky way
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The active ingredient in Immodium-AD is Loperamide, which is either a mild opiate or chemically related/analogous to the opiates. Plus it is anti-diahrreal (sorry) - which will help during w/d's - because hydro/codeine are very constapating so you are in for a treat (not) when you stop taking them suddenly. So taking immodium helps with this bowel problem and also even puts a mild opioid-type med into your system. They use Loperamide in Immodium *because* it is related to the opiates, which are some of the best anti-Diahhreal chemicals out there.
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//zeuzjuz
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zorg
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/02
Posts: 559
Loc: Midwest
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This works fantastic for me, no pain or depression at all. The ONLY hard part is sticking to the initial tapering, you have to WANT the pain-free and monetary rewards of a tolerance reset. Tolerance dictates that us CPP'ers will have to do this occasionaly to avoid diminishing returns as time goes by:
1) taper down .25mg of hydro every 2 days
2) when you're at
3) wake up, take 2-3 temgesic sublingual
4) take small doses of immodium as needed when de-constipation occurs throughout this regimen
5) take one clonidine when heart racing/blood pressure starts, one more as needed at night (no more than 2/day)
6) take 2 more temgesic a couple hours before bed
8) take 1 10mg valium at bedtime
9) repeat this regimen, tapering temgesic by one-half of a pill every 2 days
10) when you taper down past 2 temgesic per day, start the dopamine precursor regimen (1000mg L-phenylalanine x 3 / day, 50mg B6 x 3 / day, 1000mg Vit. C w/ Flavenoids 1 x day)
11) After you have tapered to completion with temgesic, continue the amino/vitamin regimen for 1-2 weeks of until you feel "normaL"
12) Again as noted above, keep immodium around for deconstipation, in the smallest possible dose. It has opoid qualities obviously, but bup is our primary substitute here so go easy on the immodium.
13) stop the valium and clonidine immediately when it is not needed anymore, benzo dependence is extremely dangerous. If this regimen is done in less than a month which it should be in most cases, the valium can be split in half for a couple more nights and then immediately stopped. Clonidine is obviously unneeded as soon as the heart racing / hypertension stops, and also should be halved for a couple days then stopped immediately.
14) Make sure to space the meds apart, all of this works best when you're not taking multiple compounds at the same time, and it's much more safe.
I have done this twice at 6 month intervals, and it worked equally well both times. I am afraid as I continue to do this the overall effectiveness will decrease, but my IC (bladder disease) is not going away unless I go into remission, so I'm just going to have to deal with it one day at a time. Pain mgmt is the only way I can keep my job, and I refuse to give up until I simply cannot make it in. I'm only 30, I'm not nearly done with my legacy.
Good luck to everyone and be careful out there! Sorry so long-winded. Please pipe up if you feel I've stated something wrong or not safe, I researched these doses thoroughly and in my MEDICALLY NONPROFESSIONAL opinion is safe for anyone in reasonably good health.
BTW, great job Legitemate!!!!
Edited by sonick (04/22/03 12:08 PM)
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tansun
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/28/02
Posts: 1152
Loc: southern USA
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well , you people sure know your stuff on this one. Myself , i have not taken a hydro holiday as of yet , but maybe someday i will - the advice sounds great. i wanted to comment on 1 thing - going to the casino for your daily activity would not work for me. I just love those casinos , and they just LOVE my money , and the same as the hydro holiday , i cant get away from the roulette table once i start!!!!!!
Tansun
good for everyone taking their holiday
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"Madam Meanness"
---------where theres a will, theres a way ----------
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smilemaker27
Newbie
Reged: 02/20/02
Posts: 31
Loc: GA USA
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Yes, Restless Body Syndrome hits the nail on the head. For years I have just called it the "Oh Sh-t" feeling. I am glad I have read this, and related to everyone else that posted here. I now have a better phrase to label that type withdrawel with. Have a great day everyone.
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StillHere
Stranger
Reged: 08/22/03
Posts: 2
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Hey guys, congrats to all you you taking holidays or trying to stop permanantly. A lot of good stuff posted. I am a nurse and also when I was younger was on methadone mainteance at a clinic. That stuff was much harder to get off of that heroin, which I was addicted to a a teenager. Unfortunately, I hhave had a few detoxes, some inpatient, some outpatient. I would say the most important med when withdrawing from opiates is clonidene (catapres is brand name. It helps with the restlessness, is quite sedating and gets rid of the extremely autonomic problems in withdrawal ie burning chills, sweating. The main problem is you must watch your blood pressure closely as it is an anti-hypertensive med.The usual dose is 0.1-0.2 mg every 4 hours in an outpatient basis (more can be give inpatient because they will monitor you b/p constantly. It also can make you very tired and dizzy when getting up quickly. That is pretty much the mainstay of opiate withdraway medically along with benzos, and something for muscle and bone pain, anaprox works well. I don't know about substitution with a drug like ultram as it really acts like an opiat and might make the withdrawal comfortably, but your not really getting off the opiates. Also sleep is a major problem, but usually not a good idea to use benzos for longer that a week as that addiction is even worse (can actually kill). It's really tough, and good support is really important. If you want to know more about my experiences, please IM me. I've been through this a few times. One more thing, absotuly do not ever go cold turkey from benzos, this can cause seizures and death,a taper is a must and usually a good idea to go through a doctor. They may use a longer acting benzo like valium or phenobarb. Hope this helps anyone, but really wantedto mention the clonidene, really helps in opiate withdrawal. Good luck and your in my prayers!
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