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Sidamo
Newbie
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 31
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Ritalin (methylphenidate) is a substituted phenethylamine, and so are all amphetamines as well as MDMA. Cocaine, on the other hand, is a rather complicated ester, with no close relationship to any of the phenethylamines.
The similarities between Ritalin, amphetamine and MDMA should be clear when comparing their chemical diagrams:
(Methylphenidate / Ritalin)
(Methamphetamine)
(MDMA / Ecstasy)
As seen above, each of these phenethylamines is a variation on the same chemical skeleton:
(Chemical skeleton for substituted phenethylamines).
cocaine is vastly different, and does not include the same skeleton as MDMA, Ritalin, or amphetamines:
By the way, Ritalin was a blessing for me--for the first time in my life I was able to excel in school, and accomplish all the things I had wanted to do (such as homework and hobby projects) but was prevented from doing by my inability to focus. It's not for everyone, to be sure; and it is a very powerful medicine, which must be respected lest it wreak havoc rather than heal.
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voyager
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Posts: 512
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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TOE you hit a HOMERUN!!!!!
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lancelot
Enthusiast
Reged: 02/10/05
Posts: 203
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ritalin compare it's structure and effects to cocaine and amphetamines not MDMA which is partly a derivative of an amphetamine, but far from being similar to ritalin in structure or effect.
ritalin works by blocking the re-uptake of DOPAMINE while amphetamines release dopamine. So, there is similarity with ritalin and amphetamines in it's actions with dopamine.
On the other hand, MDMA has nothing to do with dopamine, but releases SEROTONIN.
let's compare the structure of MDMA to amphetamine at:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compa...hetamine_2d.gif
then compare the structure of amphetamine to ritalin at:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compa...henidate_2d.gif
then compare the structure of ritalin to cocaine at:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compa...henidate_2d.gif
As you can see, ritalin has some structural properties of both amphetamine and cocaine, but less so with MDMA. No studies or scientists have ever said ritalin was more similar to MDMA than cocaine in any way.
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2846
Is meth the same thing as Amphetamines such as prescription drugs like adderall and ritalin?
A: "Meth" is meth-amphetamine, which is a type of amphetamine. The "meth" from Meth-amphetamine comes from the chemical name "methyl". The chemical Methamphetamine is composed of an amphetamine molecule with an additional methyl group attached to its nitrogen (amine group). A methyl is one of the simplest atomic groups which can be added to a molecule: it is a single carbon atom with a set of (usually) 3 hydrogens.
Ritalin (methylphenidate) does contain an amphetamine-like backbone, however it is more complex. Take a look at the difference in Chem-Compare. The additional structures on this molecule also alter its interaction with the body and the neurons in our brains. Methylphenidate is reported to have less euphoric effects (some people describe it as 'more dull') than methamphetamine, but every individual is unique in their reaction to psychoactives, so no statement is universally true. While similar in backbone structure, amphetamine, methamphetamine, and ritalin are all quite unique drugs, with somewhat similar, but distinct, effects.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/methcomp.htm
Is methylphenidate like cocaine? Studies on their pharmacokinetics and distribution in the human brain
by Volkow ND, Ding YS, Fowler JS, Wang GJ, Logan J, Gatley JS, Dewey S, Ashby C, Liebermann J, Hitzemann R, et al Medical Department, State University of New York,
Stony Brook, USA Arch Gen Psychiatry 1995 Jun; 52(6):456-63
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/methcoke.htm
Methylphenidate and cocaine have a similar in vivo potency to block dopamine transporters in the human brain
by Vokow ND, Wang GJ, Fowler JS, Fischman M, Foltin R, Abumrad NN, Gatley SJ, Logan J, Wong C, Gifford A, Ding YS,Hitzemann R, Pappas N Brookhaven National Laboratory,
Upton, New York 11973, Life Sci 1999; 65(1):PL7-12
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/health/PSYCHIATRY.htm
Interestingly enough, many people described injected Ritalin as very similar to injected cocaine. "The effects of Ritalin, amphetamines and cocaine, including the side effects, are, in fact, indistinguishable... It should be known that experienced addicts are unable to distinguish injected cocaine from injected Ritalin or injected amphetamines."
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1542.a02.html
US: Pay Attention - Ritalin Acts Much Like Cocaine
Pubdate: Wed, 22 Aug 2001
Source: Journal of the American Medical Association (US)
Copyright: 2001 American Medical Association.
Contact:
Website: http://jama.ama-assn.org/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/219
Author: Brian Vastag
http://www.rense.com/general25/14.htm
Ritalin users face many safety concerns. Abuse or long-term use can cause heart problems and possible heart attacks in people with preexisting heart conditions. One prime example of this is the death of a 14 year old boy attributed to long-term Ritalin use.
- "The Certificate of Death under, due to, (or because of) reads: "Death caused from Long Term Use of Methylphenidate, (Ritalin)." "
http://ritalindeath.com/childabuse.htm
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leelee27
Board Addict
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 373
Loc: B.F.E.
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Completely agree Lancelot...I wanted to remark also to your great research...I myself take strattera but have heard of even adults taking ritalin.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents..and thanks for the good reads, I enjoy any info on ADD related subjects.
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pantooga
Banned: too many silly posts plus posts about secret source
Reged: 03/31/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Right Dair
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This is all very interesting...but has anyone found a place to order Ritalin (for those who are not interested in the chemical properties), if you help me I will tell you the secret of how the afterlife is a place actually all around us and why we can't see it !!! 
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ikestormu11
Old Hand
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 432
Loc: right coast
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Class is in session! I think I deserve a degree after reading the last several posts. Talk about a boatload of info. Man oh man.
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leelee27
Board Addict
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 373
Loc: B.F.E.
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LOL pantooga....I dont know but If I happen to see it posted anywhere I will let you know...I have never seen it offered..maybe someone else has?
Let me in on that afterlife secret anyways..LOL
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faerie
Threadhead
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 814
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Have any of you actually had a child with ADHD? My nephew does, and it is really bad. He has always had the symptoms and was diagnosed in early grade school without his teacher or school even knowing, much less being involved. The difference in this kid, whom I love to death, is immense. He cannot sit still, stay on task, pay attention, anything without meds. While I completely agree that it is totally overdiagnosed, and incorrectly as the so-called easy out at that, some children and adults do suffer with it. We tried a variety of meds over the years (he is a teenager now) with only a few being effective. Adderall is our choice for now. We even tried weaning him off the meds and using behavioral techniques and therapy for a year, he was out of control. It is extremely frustrating for him to live without these life saving meds. My family(with the exception of me), his guardians, do not like meds for almost any reason, they even avoid aspirin. But for him, out of love and need, they went to it. I honestly think that he could not be as successful as he is now without his Adderall, he is on the honor roll, plays multiple sports (soccer is his favorite), and has lots of friends. He brings laughter and joy into our lives, and only asks to be given the tools to thrive in life. We are going to do so, despite other people's opinions. Before you all judge these meds, meet someone who needs them, and ask them what they think, just as we wish people would listen to us about our pain/anxiety needs and not make uneducated/uninformed, although prob with the best of intentions, snap judgements regarding others conditions and the best treatment for those.
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Alyssa03
Newbie
Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 46
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Faerie...I agree with you 100%. Anyone who has a close family member with true ADD or ADHD, would not dispute the use of stimulant medication to treat it. It has to be done responsibly and thoroughly, and follow up with other treatment is necessary as well. I also agree that it is over diagnosed and some children are over medicated, and that is the reason why it's got a bad rap.
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ikestormu11
Old Hand
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 432
Loc: right coast
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We've got something in common faerie. One of my nephews is the same way. Not only is he my nephew but he's my godson so he's my favorite. Nah I love them all equally but the whole godson thing definitely makes me think of him more often. Back to the topic at hand. I'm all for doing whatever works. Kind of a by any means neccesary guy. Don't judge me and I won't judge you. Anyway's my sister and brother in law (great loving highly intelligent people) have taken my nephew to all kinds of doctors and they ended up putting him on adderall. He's been diagnosed with ADD. It has drastically improved his ability to concentrate, sit still, focus etc. Basically all those wonderful things add can do to a person. The thing I'm concerned with is he is only 5 years old. What the heeelll are they going to give him when he's older? I've never mentioned this to my sister because I don't know if she has an answer and I don't want to stress her out. But if he's taking adderall at 5 what are they going to give him in say, 13 years when he turns 18? He'll still have so much life ahead of him. It worries me whenever I think about it. Initally I told her of course he's bouncing off the walls all the time, thats what 5 year olds do! I've learned it goes beyond that, but I haven't learned about whats going to happen in the future. Has me quite perplexed. Any info. would be welcomed.
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faerie
Threadhead
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Mine started on adderall, as best I can recall, and though we have tried a lot including strattera,adderall xr, etc, reg adderall still works the best after nine, almost ten years. His effective dosage isn't even reflecting a demonstrable tolerance issue, which was a concern and one of the reasons we tried other meds. So, I guess we, too, will cross that bridge when we come to it, but perhaps it is something that if used properly, may not have as many tolerance, etc issues as previously thought. Abusers, yes, because it isn't correcting a chemical issue in their body, and so their bodies prob fight it more, but perhaps not legitimate users. I have been on high dosages of several meds for my entire life for various medical conditions, and yet, despite reports that I should have a high tolerance now and need ever higher dosing schedules, I don't. Keep up the hope, for now that is all you can do. Oh, and I would advise them not to let the school know, it just labels the child and is really none of their business. We were actually told that when deciding classroom placement and advanced learning opportunities, children with ADD, ADHD were generally not considered for them, even with perfect criteria, simply based on this diagnosis, so be careful. JMO, hope it helps.
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ikestormu11
Old Hand
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 432
Loc: right coast
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Thank you for the quick reply. I agree with you if the medication is used as prescribed, and not abused, than tolerance shouldn't (hopefully) become an issue. I compare it to being a diabetic, its a chemical inbalance that can be corrected with the proper medication. I know this isn't an exact comparison but its how I think of it. Once again thanks for the info. Take care
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lancelot
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Quote:
The thing I'm concerned with is he is only 5 years old. What the heeelll are they going to give him when he's older?
But if he's taking adderall at 5 what are they going to give him in say, 13 years when he turns 18? He'll still have so much life ahead of him. It worries me whenever I think about it.
You should worry. they start kids on ritalin, switch to stronger adderall as a teen, and then dexedrine as an adult for the rest of your life. Decades of amphetamine use especially in a growing child will cause brain damage due to long-term neurotoxicity and growth retardations.
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Sidamo
Newbie
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 31
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Lancelot, I do disagree with you on a number of factual issues, which I address below. If we still do not agree on these points, even after our exchanges in this thread, please see that my disagreement is not an attack. It simply stems from my sincere belief (after much research as well as personal experience) that Ritalin and other stimulant-class ADHD meds can make a very positive change in the lives of many ADHD sufferers; that said, I am not a proponent of indiscriminately prescribing stims like candy, and I also realize that stims just aren't appropriate for a great number of people. I hope you can acknowledge the validity of my point of view, as I in turn acknowledge the validity of yours  .
I believe your heart's in the right place, but you might have conflated two distinct concepts--chemical structure on the one hand, and pharmacological effects on the other. With regard to pharmacological effects, you are correct: Ritalin, like cocaine, blocks dopamine reuptake. However, your original post did not say that--instead, you said:
That is, you appeared to assert that Ritalin is chemically more similar to cocaine than to MDMA--which is untrue. While Ritalin may be pharmacologically closer to cocaine than MDMA, in terms of chemical structure, Ritalin and MDMA are much closer to each other than either one is to cocaine. A glance up at my previous post and chemical diagrams shows that cocaine has a complex ester structure, while MDMA and Ritalin both belong to the class of compounds known as substituted phenethylamines.
As I mentioned above, that MDMA has a different pharmacological action than Ritalin or cocaine is not in dispute. When you wrote about Ritalin and cocaine being "chemically similar," you apparently meant "pharmacologically similar," but the two are quite different.
I am certain the diagram I linked above for MDMA is correct. Perhaps you can examine it again?
Methamphetamine (also called "meth" or "methylamphetamine") and amphetamine have in nearly all respects the same chemical structure. The only difference between amphetamine and methylamphetamine is the substitution of a single methyl group in place of a single hydrogen--I used the chemical diagram for meth rather than straight amphetamine simply because Wikipedia had a prettier diagram for one than the other  . Regardless, the validity of the comparison is unchanged by the substitution.
As for my MDMA structure, precisely in what regard is the chemical diagram of MDMA I linked above incorrect? Kindly identify and explain a specific error in the diagram, not references to articles by third parties. I'm too dense to wade through them all (heh).
Quote:
let's compare the structure of MDMA to amphetamine at: (several ChemCompare diagrams from www.erowid.org removed for brevity)
From my reading of the ChemCompare diagrams you linked to, they simply show the same structure as the diagram up above--do you mind to help me by explaining the differences?
Quote:
As you can see, ritalin has some structural properties of both amphetamine and cocaine, but less so with MDMA.
In what way are ritalin and cocaine more structurally similar than ritalin and MDMA? Please explain the difference in words, as my eyes are quite tired tonight and the diagrams tend to run together. You'll have to forgive me that my ADHD meds are wearing off toward the end of the day .
Quote:
No studies or scientists have ever said ritalin was more similar to MDMA than cocaine in any way. Go ahead and find me a study. here are just a few i dug up from probably hundreds available, and i did not find one study comparing the similarity of ritalin to MDMA in any way.
Again, three out of the four articles from which you cut and pasted simply compare the pharmacological similarities of ritalin and cocaine, but make no mention of structural similarities. Only one article (the first in your list) discusses the structure of ritalin at all, and only in comparison to methamphetamine and amphetamine (and in fact acknowledges that "amphetamine, methamphetamine, and ritalin" are "similar in backbone structure").
Finally, let's get to the final matter of your post, the possible fatal effects of Ritalin:
Quote:
Ritalin users face many safety concerns. Abuse or long-term use can cause heart problems and possible heart attacks in people with preexisting heart conditions. One prime example of this is the death of a 14 year old boy attributed to long-term Ritalin use.
- "The Certificate of Death under, due to, (or because of) reads: "Death caused from Long Term Use of Methylphenidate, (Ritalin)." "
http://ritalindeath.com/childabuse.htm
Disregarding the bias and anti-methylphenidate agenda present in a website called "ritalindeath," please consider the following--
I doubt anyone, doctors least of all, would deny that Ritalin (or any other stimulant) can cause death, has caused deaths in the past, and will continue to cause deaths in the future.
Did I just say that? Of course I did. Only a fool would expect that a strong medicine like Ritalin or amphetamine is always perfectly safe for everyone, especially for those with pre-existing heart condition (as mentioned in the article you quoted above). Even people without heart conditions will occasionally die from stims, simply from a misfortunate (and rare) bad reaction to them.
Like I said before, Ritalin and other stimulants used to treat ADHD are not for everyone, and are not to be toyed with for recreation; further, it is the prescribing doctor's duty to physically examine and periodically monitor his patient for whom he is prescribing Ritalin or amphetamine--any doctor who fails to do so, and has a patient die because the stimulant exacerbated an underlying heart condition, is likely to face serious penalties.
But that does not mean that stimulants categorically should never be prescribed, for anyone? Ridiculous. The potential benefits of this medicine must be weighed against the risk of harm, even the (remote) possibility of death, to the patient. If millions benefit from greatly improved quality of life, thanks to a controlled and monitored regimen of Ritalin, should Ritalin be banned simply because of a risk of death for a few?
If that were the case, hydrocodone (hell, even codeine) would have been removed from the market long ago. I ask you, which class of prescribed medicine causes the greater percentage of deaths (proportional to the number of prescribed patients) each year--opiates, or stimulants? My money is on opiates, by far. Yet clearly, the benefit in quality of life for tens of millions of chronic pain sufferers outweighs the unfortunate reality that a certain number of patients will die from their opiate painkiller prescriptions each year.
I respectfully submit that the same analogy holds true for Ritalin.
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 506
Loc: California
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Your diagram is kinda weird, it leaves several atoms to the imagination in order to represent MDMA:
compare to diagram from PiHKAL:
The methampetamine diagram also left out the methyl groups. I have not studied chemistry, so perhaps there is a diagramming system where methyl groups are assumed? It doesn't make sense, though.
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Sidamo
Newbie
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 31
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compare to diagram from PiHKAL:
The methampetamine diagram also left out the methyl groups. I have not studied chemistry, so perhaps there is a diagramming system where methyl groups are assumed? It doesn't make sense, though.
The convention used in the diagram I linked to is an abreviated diagram, but it is consistent and complete.
Essentially, each junction between line segments and each unconnected endpoint of a line segment represents a carbon at that position unless otherwise illustrated; further, the appropriate number of hydrogens are assumed to be joined to any carbon such that all four bonding slots of the carbon are completed (unless otherwise illustrated).
So, for example, the carbon between the two oxygens which are attached to the phenol ring is implied by the fact that two line segments join at that point; further, the two hydrogens necessary to fill the bonding slots of that carbon are implied by the lack of any other notation to the contrary. (Each carbon has four possible bonding slots; the carbon connecting the two oxygens has two slots occupied by the connection to the two oxygens, and two filled by hydrogens.)
In addition, the presence of the methyl group is implied by the fact that there is a line segment with one endpoint dangling without connection to another line segment; also, the three hydrogens necessary to fulfill that carbon (and thus form the methyl group) are therefore also implied by the convention as mentioned above.
Another possible point of confusion is that the MDMA depicted in "my" diagram seems to be a chiral racemate of the version shown in PIHKAL...
I like to think of this diagram as elegant; but I understand if other people consider it, uh, confusing at best . I apologize if I made it any more unclear than it had to be; it's just that good chemical diagrams (and which are in the public domain) are so gosh-darned hard to come by these days... lol
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 506
Loc: California
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Gosh this is off-topic, but I'm still unclear:
Couldn't there be a higher alkyl group (ethyl, propyl, etc.) attached to the alpha, N, or 3,4-dioxy positions? How does this system show that a methyl group, and only a methyl group, could be in those places?
Anyway, I've often wondered why Shulgin was inconsistent with his stereochemistry in PiHKAL's diagrams, as you mention.
Thanks for the lesson, and I don't think Shulgin or the Erowids would mind the diagram being linked to for non-commercial purposes.
*edit* OK, I missed this:
Quote:
the appropriate number of hydrogens are assumed to be joined to any carbon such that all four bonding slots of the carbon are completed (unless otherwise illustrated)
Now I get it, thank you.
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Sidamo
Newbie
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 31
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No, you're right--it would certainly be possible to substitute any suitable higher-order group there (if you were synthesizing some compound).
But the beauty of the convention used in that type of diagram is that, unless otherwise specified (by, for example, attaching another line segment to the dangling endpoint, or by writing an "N" for a Nitrogen or so forth), it is implied that only a carbon is positioned at the end of the line segment (as well as enough hydrogens to complete all three remaining bonding sites, again unless otherwise specified).
See? I think it's pretty clever, really, once you grok it (took me a while at first, too, but then I always was pretty slow).
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radiometer
Veteran
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 506
Loc: California
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Quote:
I think it's pretty clever, really, once you grok it (took me a while at first, too, but then I always was pretty slow).
I'm a smart guy, but music is my trade. It took me long enough to get used to assuming carbon atoms on the rings. Thanks again for the lesson.
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AngelsKisses
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Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Kansas City MO
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I'm no doctor, and sure as heck not a chemist that understood ANY of these chemical diagrams, but I wanted to reply to the Mom's that were posting here worried about the kids on Ritalin. My son (now 7) initially went through the Concerta/Adderal/Ritalin chain when he first started seeing psychiatrists and I quickly took him off of all of the above, for multiple reasons. First off, obviously I am an addict, and most of my family are addicts in some way shape or form (alcoholics, workaholics, morbidly obese, etc) so putting my child on something that is seriously habit forming is just NOT an option in my home. Secondly, the first questions that I asked the pediatrict psychologist:
What are the effects of smoking pot while on these drugs - methamphetamines (which IS what these drugs are)?
What happens if/when my child gets to be 16-18 years old and decides to try smoking meth or doing a couple of lines of coke?
What studies have been done on weight management if/when my child EVER goes OFF of these drugs?
How will these drugs affect my child when trying out for sports - especially later in life when sports require drug testing for stimulants?
EVERY question asked above could NOT be answered. There are no studies on what happens when someone on Ritalin or Adderall smokes meth. Now, I don't WANT my child to try meth - EVER - but I have to be realistic. I will not lay money down on the fact that my kid will NEVER try a street drug. He will be a teenager before I know it, and I tried drugs, as did most of us, and there is a CHANCE, however large or small, that he will too. When you get up every morning and do some methamphetamines (take your Adderall) and then after school that day do a couple lines of coke - does your heart explode? I would know not to mix the two, but try explaining that to a 16 year old that thinks he's immortal. Some of these kids are starting on these stimulants SO young that they won't even think about or realize that they're on METHAMPHETAMINES EVERY DAY by the time they become teens. They're just used to taking these pills each morning, since they were SIX years old... not to mention they wouldn't be thinking of that when they're approached to get high with friends later in life. There are ZERO studies done so far on street drugs' effects on these pharmacueticals.
I just can't condone giving these drugs to my kid until I know what will happen with the unpredictability of the teen years. These meds also keep you pretty thin too... so I would hate to be the poor teenage girl that goes off of her Ritalin someday as a teenager and then gains weight and becomes bulemic/anorexic, etc. bcz that's the WORST time of a girl's life to suddenly have an appetite again and put on weight.
The whole situation is sad. I understand the benefits of the drug, really I do - for some people it's a savior, but my parents didn't need this stuff and I didn't either for ADHD. Isn't it possible that we're just feeding our kids wrong? Or some other outside factor? What has changed from our childhoods to our kids childhoods? Something has. We did NOT have this many kids with ADHD back then so it really makes me think it's an environmental factor aggravating things somehow. I just wish there were more research. Oh - and I wish I had the stickwithedness to actually remove sugar from my kids' diets just to see if it worked. It's hard to do that. Comments welcome - I'd really like to hear what others think on this one. Thanks!!
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Sidamo
Newbie
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 31
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AngelsKisses,
I think your concerns are very valid, and the fact that you've put this much consideration into the decision whether to medicate your child or not (rather than unquestioningly followed some doctor's standard line of advice) probably sets you apart from the majority of parents. Regardless what path your child goes down, I think your continued vigilence will serve him far better than meds alone.
I don't want to seem like a "pusher" of ritalin or other stims as a universal cure for everyone who has ADHD, because that's really not what I'm about. That said, you may take some consolation in the fact that a study published in the last three or four years found that children who have ADHD are much more likely to develop addictions to non-prescriptions drugs (coke, street meth, alcohol, etc.) if they are not treated for their ADHD; on the other hand, those kids who received appropriate treatment (most often including stimulant meds) were statistically less likely to illicitly take drugs.
I think the reason the researchers offered to explain this phenomenon is that someone suffering from ADHD will often resort to "street meds" like meth or coke, or try to dull the effects through alcohol, because they find those drugs alleviate their ADHD symptoms. Unfortunately, our government treats amphetamines given to you by a pusher wearing baggy pants in a totally different way than amphetamines given to you by a man wearing a white lab coat, despite the substance being the same thing--so those kids who do try "self-medicating" are at risk of being dragged into "the system."
All that aside, I think you're clearly a mom who keeps close watch on her kids, so you know best what is right for your own child--follow your gut. If your son has ADHD, but it isn't causing any major problems (personally I don't count getting a "C" in math instead of an "A" as a "major problem," but every family has different expectations), then probably there is no need to bring stimulant meds into the picture. If your son is frustrated by himself and his ADHD starts negatively impacting various other aspects of his life (sports, relationships with friends, etc.) so that he grows depressed or angry with the world, maybe meds would be worth a shot (assuming you find they have a positive effect on your child).
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faerie
Threadhead
Reged: 03/28/05
Posts: 814
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angels~as far as removal of sugar goes, that is an urban myth. We have not only tried it, we have asked numerous healthcare professionals, many of whom we personally know. It didn't work for us, and, according to them, at best the reaction is because of an expectation of a reaction. In other words, the placebo effect, so to speak. As to why there is more of this illness now than ever before, there is more of every illness. Could be following Darwin's theories, essentially they aren't being bred out anymore through natural selection, could blame environmental factors, could blame modern medicine. Although I would kind of like to know, in the long run it just isn't as important as making sure that it is treated. And the meds are a parents decision based on their knowledge of their child. Not a doctors, teachers, counselors, ad infinitum. Noone but a parent has the right to decide this matter for a child. If you do decide to go with meds ever, be really honest with your child. He knows what he is on, that it is chemically like some street drugs, that he can NEVER mix these and why, etc, etc. He has always been told what we believed he could understand, so that temptation wouldn't arise without it already having been addressed at least a hundred times. As far as the weight issues, someone else who works for me and just went off these meds told me what their parents did, they wrote down for a month everything that the kid ate and when, and then made sure that they stuck to a similar eating pattern after the meds. They also have a rule in their house, one that a lot of us probably should have, no eating in front of the television or computer, ever. Fewer empty calories that way I guess. Good luck, and there are behavior modification tricks (age specific ones) that do help. For us they were not enough, but they did help.
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DC2005
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Reged: 12/30/04
Posts: 23
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Quote:
someone suffering from ADHD will often resort to "street meds" like meth or coke, or try to dull the effects through alcohol, because they find those drugs alleviate their ADHD symptoms.
Excellent point. ADD sufferers often try to medicate themselves. I have had ADD symptoms all my life. I compensated by drinking excessive amounts of caffeine at work and maintaining a rigid exercise schedule.
Just recently, I started taking small doses of Ritalin (5-10 mg per day) and I have had remarkable results. I keep the dosages low because I also have addictive disorders running in my family and I am worried about the long term effects. Just a small amount helps me get stated in the morning. ADD sufferers have problems starting projects. So I find once I get going on something in the morning I can usually keep on it in the afternoon.
Overall I have better concentration, a more positive attitude and feel much more relaxed. I hardly touch caffeine anymore and I am sleeping better than ever. So all in all it has been a positive experience for me.
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Canefever03
Banned: unpolite post with insults
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 85
Loc: SEC
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faerie,
I totally agree with you and crying while reading your post. My 9 yr old was just diagnosed with ADD. She just couldn't focus. It took two tests, one at school and one at the pediatrician for her to be diagnosed. She just started taking adderall this week and I can already tell she is focused now and this is only the beginning. Before she was prescribed the medicine, I had family members yelling at me and hanging up in my face saying that prayer is the answer not drugs. Well I was going to do what was best for my child's need b/c it is very hard to hear your child say she can never do anything right and that she is a failure. I can tell she is happy now. Big in 2 days, she is miss popular at school now. WOW! The doctor told me to call them next week to see if the dosage needed to be increased. I think we should take this process slowly and not let it take over her body to quickly. We will just see.
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AngelsKisses
Stranger
Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Kansas City MO
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First off - thanks for the kind words regarding my taking my time with my decisions regarding my child and the whole methamphetamines idea. Secondly - I meant to mention the same factoid that you brought up in my post - about how kids with ADHD that go UNTREATED actually have a really high rate of abusing drugs later in life. I wasn't sure on the exact percentages, but knew that my decision to stay away from these drugs was a toss up in the risk dept. considering he may very well end up an addict because I DIDN'T treat ADHD. (Not too much of a concern now that ADHD has been ruled out though for my child) To me, I consider my children VERY HIGH RISK for becoming drug abusers in their teens - if not their whole lives - because of the statistics where I live, family history, and just plain dumb luck. So when I factor in the 'low risk' factor of hopefully correctly and quickly treating my child's psychiatric issues before his teens years, it all ends up leaving him at a "normal risk" level. Does that make sense? My problem with all of this - not Ritalin specific at all - is that ALL of the medications they have tried this kid on have NOT been tested with other outside street drugs, and while it may not be of concern to the typical mom, it is to me. I just want a lot more testing done. Maybe someday they will.
Thanks so much for the replies!
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AngelKisses
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d.
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