Steve623
Banned: multiple board accounts. Disregard the feedback provided by this user.
Reged: 08/24/04
Posts: 89
Loc: NY, USA
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Quote:
I realize there may be a RARE need for this proceedure but I cannot understand late term abortion. It's murder.
I feel compelled to address this issue.
I was raised catholic but I married a wonderful jewish woman. Our children are jewish as well.
We discussed the issue of abortion with her rabbi.
Rabbi: "In our religeon, a fetus is simply a part of a woman's body to do with as SHE sees fit until said fetus can live on it's own with no assistance"
This would include the ability to breathe on it's own which usually occurs in the 7th month of gestation.
Anyone feel free to check the validity of what the jewish stance on abortion is (and always has been).
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bronwyn
Journeyman
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 53
Loc: bluegrass
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Tina, I never said that no one could disagree with me - you have your belief, I have mine. I just don't think it is right for you to make me abide by your belief. Do I think you have more credibility on this than a man does - I'm not addressing that issue as while it takes two to tango, it also takes only one live with the afteraffects. I'm glad you made the choice you did - it worked for you. I just want to have the right to make that choice for myself (should I ever have to) and not have ANYONE (family included) tell me what to do. I hold a differing view - Do I have that right from You? As I certainly support your right to your view, and would fight for that right if I could and had to. I just ask for the same consideration.
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Bronwyn
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fromabove
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/20/04
Posts: 219
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Quote:
I never said anything about the 2nd amendment - in fact I own a gun, as do most of my family, none of which are assault rifles (ours are for sporting or for historical purposes only) - therefore that past of your post needs help...
As for life - I believe that the mother's life takes preceedence until viability, and even after that if death is involved. I take precautions to make sure I don't get pregnant (yeas, I'm happily married, not sleeping around, not that it's any of your business) because I know that to carry a baby to term with the meds I'm on and the condition of my back would just about make me an invalid and the baby would most likely have birth defects or other issues, however if I got pregnant, in conjunction with my hubby, I think I know what my choice would be. My question is why do you think you have a say in that choice. You choose not to make that option, that's your choice, I choose to have that proceedure, that is my choice NOT YOURS OR ANYONE ELSES. I have the right to decide for myself where conception begins in my body - YOU DON"T! Just the same as I don't have the right to make that choice for you! It's a concept called freedom of religion and beliefs - look it up. Catholics and other religionsdon't have the right to force the beliefs their religion has on those of us with different beliefs - that is the entire point of the 1st amendment.
Yes, I believe that all living americans have all constitutional rights - I just don't feel that a fetus is a living american until it's born, it is a group of cells that live off of the mother's body the same as a leech or tick live off of their hosts (i do believe that birth is a wonderful thing, I just also realize there are times when it would not be best for everyone involved). If you feel that strongly about no abortions, then how many have you adopted? In other words, until you take your step, lay off me making choices over my body which are in the best interests of my health, family, mental stability, and financial status (god forbid I got pregnant, lost my job and become a welfare mom since I couldn't work - that would just add to the problem of entitlement, just because some one somewhere else decided I didn't have the right to make choices over my body.
My last comment - You do present some decent points, but don't assume that the one side (liberal/conservative) fits all - it doesn't fit me!
By your own definition, late term abortion is murder. There are laws against murder. You dont have the right to choose murder, however if you should choose murder then you should suffer the legal consequences for that. I believe there may be rare acceptations to that rule. After life is viable, then it is defiantly murder. Your words, not mine.
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The truth is out there...
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Snowpatrol
Member
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 114
Loc: NW
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Interesting thread. It started with purported censorship by the FCC, which somehow has something to do with prescription drug laws or OPs and then morphs into a spirited debate involving gun rights and abortion. You mean to tell me there's actually a connection between buying hydro online without a prescpription and Janet Jackson's teet? I guess both acts are illegal, or at least ill-advised. I guess you could also say guns and abortion are interrelated given they both contribute to the taking of human life...
I think everyone is hitting the meds a little too hard - or maybe I'm not taking enough.
Snow
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bronwyn
Journeyman
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 53
Loc: bluegrass
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Reread what I said - I agree that after viability (usually starting in the 7th month) I don't support abortion unless medically necessary to save the mother's life (such as stillborns or toxicity). I do believe that there are instances in the 3rd trimester where there might be a need, but these are few and far between (and forcing a mother to carry to term when it could kill the mother is also attempted murder - who takes precedence?). I don't think that 3rd trimester abortions should be for birth control practises - I imagine that we agree on that. I do however feel that prior to viability there is not a separate life from the mother and that the mother should have the choice what to do.
I also have one other question - if God created miscarriages (which can happen up until birth) wouldn't those be considered murder also?
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Bronwyn
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spondylo
Journeyman
Reged: 08/13/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Mid Atlantic Region
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Quote:
I think everyone is hitting the meds a little too hard - or maybe I'm not taking enough.
Snow
It's DEFinitely B !! 
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pwptds
Member
Reged: 09/02/04
Posts: 107
Loc: Highway to Heaven
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kudos spondylo!!
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Snowpatrol
Member
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 114
Loc: NW
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Quote:
I also have one other question - if God created miscarriages (which can happen up until birth) wouldn't those be considered murder also?
Do I even need to answer that? Ridiculous.
Each of my three children were kicking and moving well before they were "viable" outside the womb (or 7 mos.).
I have a cousin who is still on record as the lowest weight premature baby ever born in Utah, born at six months (less than 1 pound). He's blind in one eye, has a heart defect and has had many hernia operations, but he's now a congressional aide, an Eagle scout, marathon runner and has an amazing singing voice (go figure).
Listen, I have given money (via United Way payroll deductions) to Planned Parenthood for years. I'm not rabidly pro-life. In an ideal world, there would be very, very few cases where someone needs an abortion, and would instead embrace adoption or other alternatives. I think most reasonable people understand that abortion needs to be a legal procedure (because it will happen anyway, if for no other reason).
Dr. C. Everett Koop, former surgeon general and no Republican, is on record as saying there is no situation - given the state of modern medicine - where we must choose a mother's life over the baby's when it comes to partial birth abortion. It's a non-starter of an argument and certainly no threat to the public at large to outlaw such a barbaric precedure. Anything beyond the first trimester is beyond the pale in my opinion - unless there is a very, very compelling reason for an abortion.
Snow
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 485
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Quote:
When life is VIABLE then it begins - otherwise it is quite parasitic..........
It's been a long time since I've read anything quite this appalling on a forum.
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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