jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 49
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I've got some Lorazepam from RXMostwanted (aka DrugsMostWanted) that is manufactured by VGR Bio Laboratories. It seems like I have to take quite a bit more than the prescribed does to really feel much, like 4 mg to really feel it. 1mg I don't notice anything.
Is there that much of a range in quality for generic Benzodiazepines? Are there certain labs to stay away from?
If there is a difference in quality, is it because there is actually less of the active ingredient in the pill than stated or is it because the drug has been poorly formulated?
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zippy66
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/17/04
Posts: 226
Loc: The Spine
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Most likely if its a big Pharm company they were made in the right proportions but if they are not stored properly they degrade and get weaker. Have you ever had a bottle of vintage wine stored next to the furnace? You should order from a more reliable source and compare. PM me if you want more info.
You can never rule out tolerance either
Zip66
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Lablady2
Member
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 182
Loc: New York City
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Having worked in pharmaceuticals I can tell you a couple of things.
1. You usually get what you pay for - order from an outfit that "underbids" and you will get generic junk - from an outfit probably located in Bangeldesh - with poor quality control etc etc etc.
2. There is also something known as bioavailability - but that is kind of technical to go into unless you have some background in pharmacology.
3. The "fillers" - or what they use to bind product together are usually of poor quality in the lesser generic houses - pills crumble and degrade quickly - cheap dye is used - etc etc.
4. How do you know what IOP is offering what - simple - send them an e-mail as to what "brand" they are offering. If they don't answer you - don't do business with them.
5. Yes, quality does vary very much from generic house to generic house unfortunately - many are comparable to throwing together stuff in someone's basement - others are reputable generic houses.
6. A company - example Roche - the original "inventors" of Valium - have patent on product that usually lasts 18 years - and for those 18 years ONLY that company may manufacture the product. After patent expires it is up for grabs by any generic house. Roche and many larger pharmaceutical firms have their own generic houses - gets very complicated.
Best advice I can give you is to deal with a reputable IOP - best one I have found is Our Prescriptions for Less - if you have any TYPE of a problem with anything you order from them, they are very responsive.
Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.......
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penny67
Banned: making offers against the law
Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 131
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Our Prescriptions for Less has sent placebos out from india and they also send out wrong orders.they were great at one time i very much agree but they have problems now.i have found most the indian meds to be weak.i dont know why but they are and have read where many others are in the same boat with indian meds.
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zippy66
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/17/04
Posts: 226
Loc: The Spine
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Number one suspicion: Tolerance. Check against different brand. You may have built up a tolerance. Order from somewhere else more reliable and compare.
Number two: Storage. Heat and packaging can lead to degradation of benzo's. So all the way up the supply chain from manufacturer to user, it has to be handled well. In a perfect world, this means shop at home where the contols are strictest. If we are talking about concerns for quality control in manufacturing you need to find the manufacturer and check their reputation. See if they export to USA, that'll tell ya.
Number three: India has some of the only pharmaceutical manufacturers in the deeloping world that consistantly pass FDA and WHO requirements for bioavailability and quality (Cipla, Ranbaxy, Torrent, and the big names are there as well). The fact that the supply chain from these manufacturers can be hot and sticky may lead to "weak" meds. I have had no problem with the meds I have received from Indianmeds4u and find they stack up against any IOP out there. India gets a bum rap a lot from industry reviews because they don't recognize patents which pisses off many big greedy Manufacturers.
My 3 cents
Zip66
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Lablady2
Member
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 182
Loc: New York City
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I have had nothing but good experiences with this company. Yes, their domestic (last order) was a problem - sent bright blues from some place in India - e-mailed them - and voila - valium from Roche. They are a very good company, any issues you have with them they quickly resolve. Yes, they may be suffering from "growing pains" - as they are expanding their business.
HOWEVER, I stand by what I said - they are by far the best IOP I have EVER dealt with. If you have some issues with them - just PM them and state your case in a polite manner - and they will respond and attempt to fix whatever is wrong.
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jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 49
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The manufacturer I'm suspicious of is VGR Bio Laboratories, No. 95 Perlya Pathai, Lakahmi Apartments, 1st floor off 100 feet Road, Chennai. I may have mispelled since the writing is so small. 'Lakahmi Aparments' sure doesn't sound like a large company. This generic brand is being sold through rxmostwanted.com IOP. I've sampled both their Lorazepam and their Clonazepam. The threshold of feeling any effects using these generics is about 2mg for the Lorazepam and 1mg for the Clonazepam. Below that, it's no better than a placebo.
My question is, are the lesser quality generics dangerous? If they are just less potent, can you just up the dose a bit, or should I just throw them out? Anyone else had similar experience?
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d989
Newbie
Reged: 12/19/01
Posts: 30
Loc: Connecticut USA
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Hi,
The FDA allows an error range for active ingredients in most generic medications. This is because it is almost impossible and unreasonably costly to blend pills so they have the exact amount of a substance in each unit.
The allowed range of error is between .8 and 1.3 of an active ingredient. Or 80 to 130%
So for example, a generic Norco 10/325 could have between 8mg and 13mg of hydrocodone in each unit. This explains why different brands/batches seem stronger/weaker than another (in addition to other variables like binders and heat exposure.)
I would imagine some companies to save money lean towards the lower part of the range, while quality companies the higher range to make their medication seem more effective.
-d
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jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 49
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This makes sense but then the problem is you don't know how much you are taking! Obvioulsy these overseas manufacturers distributing through IOPs are not under the scrutiny of the FDA. But with druge as powerful as clonazepam, etc. I wouldn't feel very good about determing the dose solely based on what effect I;m feeling, but I guess that's all your left to do even with the 'good' quality generic - maybe that's the benefit of paying extra for the name brand stuff, you know exactly how much you're getting? Or do you? I've ordered some more well-known brand generics and brand names to compare. I think I'll just toss this VRG Bio Laboratories generics.
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