seamaiden
Newbie
Reged: 05/19/04
Posts: 40
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all i have been able to find out is that the dea raided kens drugs today and that the op's that deal with kens were not answering the phones today. as i get more info i will keep you all updated!! all that is known for sure at this time is that the dea raided kens drugs today and they were even digging thru the dumpsters. i dont know how this is going to affect any of the op's, but as soon as i get some emails answered i will let you all know!!
there is no information on this on other boards as of yet that i have been able to see , so it must be have been kept pretty quiet!!
if anyone has anymore info please keep us updated!!
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peteg72
Member
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 174
Loc: midwest
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Oh. no. another one down. They carried alot of op's too. Maybe that's what did them in. I checked three of the op's that use them and they are still up. It's getting scarier every day. We need someone to post a press release.
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And if the band youre in starts playing different tunes....I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
Edited by peteg72 (09/21/04 10:56 PM)
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Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
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Guys, I realize that this sounds stupid and I can see plenty of arguments to the contrary, but personally I feel more comfortable with IOPs than domestic OPs because if your package gets seized at the border, Customs tosses it and sends you a form letter that they send tens of thousands of each year. True, they may keep your name in a database, but the info next to your name would be slight, as they won't intercept every one of your packages. And, since it's a federal matter, it's VERY unlikely that they would go after you because the feds have better things to do than bust a buyer in the suburbs.
Domestic OPs, on the other hand, have all of your records with them. If the feds or the state cops seize a pharmacy or an OP, they have all of that access. Each pharmacy they raid increases their ability to cross-reference and profile each person on the list. That's the equivalent of Customs seizing every package you have for years and having transaction records, to boot. Also, if the state cops get to the pharmacy, they very well could find the time to nail you and make an example of you.
Statistically, I think I order from OPs and IOPs at the same frequency, but I am WAAAAY more skittish with OPs and might be putting my money where my typing is.
What do you guys think?
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Sweetz
Diamond Mind
Reged: 05/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Texas!
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I checked google and found where they were, then found the area newspaper - the Orlando Sentinel and didn't see anything in local news. I may try again with another paper. But, that doesn't mean that it wasn't raided, it may take a day or two for the news to get out, if indeed things were bad. That's kinda how pc.com went down. didn't answer phone, nothing. some that placed an order before the actual day they shut down received their meds. but they're outta here, still, even though they said they'd come back. Yeah, ok.
editted to add: I couldn't find a paper specifically for Kissimmee, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also, I'm gonna kill you peteg72!!!! I started singing that song after I read your tag line and now it's stuck in my freakin' head!!! Best concert I've ever been to!!!!!
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"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
Edited by Sweetz (09/21/04 11:47 PM)
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AngelWolf13
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 282
Loc: w/ my '91 CE-24 in SoCal....
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hey stardog, i think you make a valid point there, definitely something to think about, although pondering over the potential tumult is definitely giving me the heebie-jeebie screaming blue meanies. we all need to stick together stronger than ever through these crises, this isn't the first time, won't be the last, as long as they think that we're a little itty-bitty bit of nobody, the dea will even more vigorously try to stomp us all down. there's got to be a better way....
oh, back to the question you posed, i think i tend to agree with you, what you said makes sense, but i can't really make an accurate assessment because i don't really know enough about the facts (that i can truly verify, anyway) of how domestic ops operate. but what you said sounds totally logical to me.
best of luck to all.
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
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rkjones
Member
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 159
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what op's used ken drugs, guys? sorry but i have a hard time remmebring these kinda things! Pm me if you donn't wanna post.
Thanx! RK
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Noone has to endure abuse from others, god gave us moderators for this reason!
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Quote:
what op's used ken drugs, guys?
www.medsviaweb.com
www.netpain.com
www.medswithconsult.com
Those are the OP's. all owned by the Kennedee Group. Scripts written following consults from these OP's are filled by various branches of Ken Drugs, which is also owned by Kennedee. (There are at least two Ken Drugs branches in my personal (but very limited) experience).
I have never heard of any non-KennedeeGroup OP using Ken Drugs to fill scripts.
I haven't used this outfit in about a year, but I used to be a fairly satisfied customer of Meds Via Web. Things may have changed leading up to this reported DEA action, but all of the various Kennedee Group OP's used to have a reputation for doing things more or less by the book, requiring records and ID's prior to consults, etc etc.
Not an obvious DEA target from what little I know about the operation. And by the way, for what it's worth, both the www.kendrugs.com and the www.medsviaweb.com sites look like they are up and running as usual.
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Sweetz
Diamond Mind
Reged: 05/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Texas!
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I think I did a search on yahoo yellow pages once to get a number of a Ken Drugs pharmcy for someone. Not sure if they're all located in the same city, but numerous ones came up, more than 2 I know that. Someone might try it if they're really that interested.
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"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Hey, Sweetz.
There is one Ken Drugs in Kissimmee, Florida for sure, and at least one in Tampa as well. Maybe two locations in Tampa.
There was some mix up with my refills, you were supposed to phone in your request direct to the Pharmacy. And I called in to the Tampa one by mistake, the wrong Ken Drugs, but they filled it anyway. Then the right Ken Drugs filled it too, the one in Kissammee.
And while I was dithering and trying to talk myself into not reporting the foul-up, within hours of signing for the second package I started getting urgent and concerned phone messages from the Pharmacy tech at Ken Drugs Tampa informing me that my script had been filled twice by mistake!
By the way, the Comprehensive US OP List has Ken Drugs listed in both Tampa and Kissimmee locations, but just one phone number.
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Sweetz
Diamond Mind
Reged: 05/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Texas!
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Maybe it was a website then. i do remember seeing multiple locations. It's later, errrr, I mean early, I mean, I need some sleep, so who knows.
Nice to see you posting hon, could just be me, but hadn't seen you around lately.
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"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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According to another board, the only Kens that was raided was the Waters Avenue one.
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moonshade
Old Hand
Reged: 12/01/02
Posts: 458
Loc: searching for my lost shaker o...
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Link
TAMPA - State, local and federal investigators swooped in Tuesday morning to search four Ken Drugs stores and offices in Tampa.
Authorities would not disclose the focus of what they described as an ongoing investigation.
About 50 investigators from the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office searched facilities on West Waters Avenue, North Dale Mabry Highway, North Habana Avenue and West Columbus Drive.
At each location, investigators parked a small U-Haul truck ready to cart off boxes of records.
``I can confirm the DEA served search warrants at several Ken Drugs locations, but beyond that, I cannot say anything more,'' said Steve Cole, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Tampa. ``There were no arrests made today.''
Dominick Albanese, special agent in charge of the Tampa DEA office, said the investigation encompasses Tampa and Kentucky, and that other search warrants were executed outside of Tampa. He would not elaborate.
Kentucky State Police referred questions to the DEA.
Ken Drugs President Kenneth Shobola could not be reached for comment.
Investigators converged on the Ken Drugs store and Kenaday Medical Clinic at 1612 W. Waters Ave. just before 9:30 a.m. While some searched inside, two others combed through the contents of a trash bin outside, taking note of address labels on cardboard boxes.
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*** insert profound statement here ***
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Sweetz
Diamond Mind
Reged: 05/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Texas!
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thanks Moon. I checked but it was the weee hours of the night as I couldn't sleep. So, I think my brain was fogged a bit.
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"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
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Steffie
Member
Reged: 04/11/02
Posts: 107
Loc: Southwest
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Talk about timing -I just completed a refill through them around the 8th of September. I have a refill left. Do you think if they'll be able to honor it? I went to their website and there is nothing to say they're temporarily out of business, or otherwise, so I hope everything with them is ok. I've always received wonderful customer service.
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moonshade
Old Hand
Reged: 12/01/02
Posts: 458
Loc: searching for my lost shaker o...
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The article said there were no arrests made the day of search.
So, unless the DEA orders them to shut down, they could still be in business, when it comes time for your refill.
Hard to predict, not knowing what further actions the DEA plans at this time.
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*** insert profound statement here ***
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ronwood
Stranger
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 1
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Hi Everybody,
I just want to let you all know that I just called Ken Drugs on West Columbus Drive. And everything seems to be just fine as of right now. They are filling scripts just the same as before the Raid the other day....:-)
Be well,
Hugs,
Ron
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d989
Newbie
Reged: 12/19/01
Posts: 31
Loc: Connecticut USA
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I really think it is kind of obvious what the dea is doing. They are building cases against people who are getting narcotics from multiple sources. If they were just after the pharmacies, they would be shutting them down. If I were double-dipping with various ops right now, I would be real worried!!
-d
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dougforever
Stranger
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 2
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I do not support double dipping but do you really think that the DEA has a fifty thousand handcuffs.
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infliksta
Journeyman
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 90
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that sucks just had an order from them and refill is in about 20 daYs i have 3 refills left can i take the bottle to a local pharmacy to fill when time comes??????
thanks for info
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Billyl
Board Addict
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 389
Loc: NorthEast
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Quote: I do not support double dipping but do you really think that the DEA has a fifty thousand handcuffs.
Yes, especially flex-cuffs.
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 262
Loc: USA
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I've been reading on the VIP board about someone in Kentucky saying it had to do with complains coming from there. The DEA is probably building cases or looking at medical records to see if people were in compliance or if they weren't. I think if you aren't DDing from various sites that all use them, then you are probably ok. Who knows, but most likely they are just trying to stop the source or/and people in Kentucky.. Maybe more, I guess we may here more on this later.
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Entertainment Specialist!
Edited by Tred (09/24/04 04:22 AM)
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zengaboyFB
Newbie
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29
Loc: NYC, LA, Bucks Co. PA
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Ken Drugs is up, running and filling orders.
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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I doubt the DEA is going after every person who DDs. There is just too many man hours involved in that. They don't have the budget.
Since it only seems to involve Kentucky, something must have happened. My guess is that there is probably a law in Kentucky that residents cannot be prescribed meds from a doctor unlicensed in KY. This happened with that OP who was shipping meds to IL residents. Now the owners and doc of that OP are getting sued by the state of IL.
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Oh, I think Tred may be right on the money. The KY officials probably busted a drug ring. They probably found bottles to different people with Kens Drugs name on them. They are now looking at the source. If they truly are still up and running, I doubt they are looking outside the scope of the KY investigation. They would put them on an emergency order to cease operating. This happened with CMC, TDI and Woody's, remember? Then Woody's was allowed to resume. The others were not and Dr. L lost his license.
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Quote:
what op's used ken drugs, guys?
www.medsviaweb.com
www.netpain.com
www.medswithconsult.com
Those are the OP's. all owned by the Kennedee Group. Scripts written following consults from these OP's are filled by various branches of Ken Drugs, which is also owned by Kennedee. (There are at least two Ken Drugs branches in my personal (but very limited) experience).
I have never heard of any non-KennedeeGroup OP using Ken Drugs to fill scripts.
I haven't used this outfit in about a year, but I used to be a fairly satisfied customer of Meds Via Web. Things may have changed leading up to this reported DEA action, but all of the various Kennedee Group OP's used to have a reputation for doing things more or less by the book, requiring records and ID's prior to consults, etc etc.
Not an obvious DEA target from what little I know about the operation. And by the way, for what it's worth, both the www.kendrugs.com and the www.medsviaweb.com sites look like they are up and running as usual.
Actually, YFD has used Kens to according to a member on another board.
The list... is as follows:
netpain
medsviaweb
MedsWithConsult.com
Medi-cation.com
Yourfriendlydoctor.com
RXConsults4U.com
TelaMeds.com
Edited by DrugBuyers (10/25/04 08:59 AM)
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oscar1
Newbie
Reged: 07/25/04
Posts: 40
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Living in Kentucky there have been numerous cases of the DEA raiding doctor's offices and pharmacies in recent years. Anyone remember the oxycodone problem? Want to guess which state the DEA cracked down on and continue to pursue doctors left and right for over writing prescriptions on that med?
There is 1 case that comes straight to mind where a doctor in (I believe) Louisville was recently arrested for prescribing medications, (again I believe they were narcotics) to patients without valid reasons and this doc. was also prescribing large quantities of these medications. This is the 2nd time in 6 months that doctors in Louisville have been investigated and/or arrested for such behavior.
I'm going to go to Louisville's local newspaper and see if I can find a link regarding what is actually going on with this doctor and see if it connects to Kens. However, as of now (and I don't know for how much longer) Kentucky is still an open state in which we can order meds. world wide.
HOWEVER, I'd strongly advise anyone, anywhere who is either d.ding or considering d.ding to think twice. The last thing anyone needs is for the DEA to show up at their front door!
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d989
Newbie
Reged: 12/19/01
Posts: 31
Loc: Connecticut USA
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The DEA may not have 50k handcuffs, but they do have some. They can go through the data and formulate a cut point of people they are going to go after. For example, they may target people who have gotten 3 or more scripts from a doctor at one point in time. They will do this with the rational that these people probably are not using the narcotics for personal use, rather selling them on the street.
I think if you just have double dipped one or two times, with no more than two doctors you will be ok. I think the people that should be worried are the ones that are signing up with all the ops and getting massive amounts of pills sent to them.. more than any one person can use (i.e. you can only take so many schedule III narcotics per month because of apap limits.)
-d
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kadenning
Stranger
Reged: 06/09/04
Posts: 1
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Okay - I'm confused. Are we saying that folks that dd'ed with the various Ken Drugs affiliates are at risk because of this raid? How would the DEA know if a person was dd'ing if they don't have the records from the other pharms in addition to the Ken records? Am I missing something?
Also, most of these pharms are doing upwards of 35,000 scripts per month - that's a lot of data for the DEA to go through. Yes, it's not impossible, but is it probable?
Has anyone ever heard of someone - other than Rush Limbaugh - getting busted for ordering from multiple online pharms? Maybe for importing from other countries, but I'm talking about getting busted for order too many meds from US OPs?
From what I've read the DEA is targeting the online ops/pharms, I didn't find much on busting the buyers.
Any thoughts?
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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While it is never a good idea to DD, I think this is all conjecture at this point. My guess is we will find out more as time goes by, however, look at the facts. They went after one pharmacy entity, Kens. This was an operation between Kentucky and Florida, which leads me to believe something happened in Kentucky. Someone may have ODed on a Ken's Drug script. There may have been a drug ring or individuals in KY diverting meds and they found bottles with that pharm name on them. The KY atty general's office ordered meds using one of the OPs that were serviced by Kens and perhaps KY residents have a law where they must be serviced by MDs licensed in KY. This happened in Illinois and that's why IL is currently in legal proceedings with the Dr and operator of one OP, can't remember the name of that one, but do a search for it. I think it is on this board.
Also, at least one of the Kens sites, lists drug prices. It is basically a point and click OP, owned by Kennady Clinic and serviced by Kens Pharmacy. That's against the new FL law. They are not allowed by law to be a consult servce and a pharmacy. The owner of Apothesys made a post on here when the law went into effect this year, explaining this. Look what happened to Dr. D. and Datamark. Because the doctor had an interest in the "pharmacy" they shut them down.
From what I have read, in order for the DEA to go after the patients, they have to educate the public. I have heard at one point, that they were going to be putting public servie announcements online. Say if you found an IOP on Google, and clicked on it. There would be a screen that came up stating it was against federal law to import meds via carrier into the US.
Right now the laws are very gray in this area. My guess is there will be legislation soon making OPs illegal or heavily regulating them. If that happens, I would take great heed. But our inboxes are being bombarded by spam from everyone selling everything from Viagra to hydrocodone. There has to be some sort of public awareness program. As of right now I really think they want to cut the meds off at the source; go after the big fish or those people who are diverting meds.
Unfortunately it is not impossible to take large amounts of medication for personal use regardless of the apap amount. Look at Rush Limbaugh and ask any drug rehab counselor. I think the feds have to have some proof that you are diverting meds for them to prosecute. There are literally thousands of people using OPs and my guess is a lot of them DD. I am NOT condoning DDing, just being realistic. How many people have come on these boards and have to order from a no records OP in a pinch because of one reason or another? Tons.
If the DEA wanted to catch individuals it would be very easy to do, and would not involve raiding a Kens Drug chain. They could go after the mysterious pharmacy servicing the point and click OPs; all those affiliates using the same pharmacy that do not require records.
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patient2all
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 294
Loc: usa
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We should take Buey's post as right on the money.
Don't want to nitpick on two other posts but I feel I must point out:
Quote:
Actually, YFD has used Kens to according to a member on another board.
I have used YFD steadily for over 2 years and never received a Ken Drugs Rx. YFD has only been through a few pharmacies and tended to stick with one at a time according to my own experience and others that I spoke with through PM's.
Right now, YFD is using Health Mart, a large franchise which I would have to say appears to be the most professional pharmacy group any Telemedicine Provider has been associated with. YFD is extremely by the book.
Quote:
Has anyone ever heard of someone - other than Rush Limbaugh - getting busted for ordering from multiple online pharms?
I never recall reading of Rush using OPs. Perhaps he didn't know about them, besides much of his needs were Schedule II. Don't you remember the 4000 pill deal that took place in a Denny's parking lot? I don't know of any op who operates that way!
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patient2all
It's a sad world, getting sadder by the day....
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