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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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I've been thinking lately.
As some here already know, I am on pins and needles and into my first ever real withdrawal. Self-inflicted, I know, but tomorrow, fingers crossed, I should be getting a proper prescription.
So it's not all that strange that I was secretly hoping for at least some Vicodins after my dental appointment today.
I've got terrible pain in my teeth (following root canal), and it seems at least the sinuses are involved.
But of course, no meds, so no early rescue.
But it got me to thinking: Even the staff was telling me I shouldn't leave in pain (been in that particular pain six months now), and even the receptionist was giving my dentist that concerned "Oh good God, you can't send someone out in pain like that!" - look, all she said was "have a nice day" - Indeed, I was in pain so I decided to celebrate! What was she thinking with that inane pleasantry?
So I sulked in my car for ten minutes. Contemplated things. Hated doctors, life, politicians, whatever.
Then I realized, what if we made a website that, for a change, kept a list of doctors and dentists known to be averse to prescribing pain meds for serious pain? I mean really put the sadistic bastards on the map for all to see, hang 'em out like the evil corporate-line-towing self-involved, shaking and scared little prikcs they are?
I am sure there's some legality issues that need looked at, but as far as I can tell, telling about one's experience only, and without resorting to namecalling (I mean, we can right here in this thread, thank goodness!) and labelling, is perfectly legal and cannot constitute libel.
What I mean is, you can legally call a doctor an insensitive bastard, but you cannot call him incompetent or a quack. But you can still get the message across.
Especially if this website, this grid, this database, whatever it is, is updated, mirrored all over the place, and above all, a result of the collaboration of hundreds of anonymous, disappointed patients who want to protect their fellow sufferers?
What's say?
My future website, painrights.com is still unused and waiting for content, but, as you may suspect, I feel like &^&^, so after I post here I generally don't feel like web designing. Maybe tomorrow, eh?
cheerio
Rednicz
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
... Then I realized, what if we made a website that, for a change, kept a list of doctors and dentists known to be averse to prescribing pain meds for serious pain? I mean really put the sadistic bastards on the map for all to see, hang 'em out like the evil corporate-line-towing self-involved, shaking and scared little prikcs they are?
I am sure there's some legality issues that need looked at, but as far as I can tell, telling about one's experience only, and without resorting to namecalling (I mean, we can right here in this thread, thank goodness!) and labelling, is perfectly legal and cannot constitute libel.
What I mean is, you can legally call a doctor an insensitive bastard, but you cannot call him incompetent or a quack. But you can still get the message across.
Especially if this website, this grid, this database, whatever it is, is updated, mirrored all over the place, and above all, a result of the collaboration of hundreds of anonymous, disappointed patients who want to protect their fellow sufferers?
What's say? My future website, painrights.com is still unused and waiting for content, but, as you may suspect, I feel like &^&^, so after I post here I generally don't feel like web designing. Maybe tomorrow, eh? cheerio Rednicz
I think you need to read up more on libel. You sure can be sued for posting that a doctor is a "incompetent bastard." It's certainly defamatory. How could you prove that it's true?
Also, without naming names, i can say without fear that probably most doctors are incompetent bastards ... and many here will agree. So why not make it easier and try to find the smaller number of GOOD doctors and have stories posted about them that are positive? If you do it right, it will benefit both the doctors and their potential patients. But if you focus on naming the "easy scribers" of PKs, you'll just end up getting the DEA on them. If you focus only on the quality of care, then it wouldn't be a risk for them.
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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patient2all
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 293
Loc: usa
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"Doctor,
I'm a real baby about pain, especially in the head area. You can never escape it. At least when you have a pain in your arm you can find a proper position to rest it in where you can possibly minimize the agony. But the head and mouth are different, I know from previous work; I was literally in tears and simply could not sleep.
I'd feel terrible if I had to call your service to disturb you tonight if I find myself climbing the walls. How about giving me something to fall back on just in case. I'll only fill it if the Advils don't seem to be doing the trick."
Dentist comes back with "Well I can only give you a few, please don't fill it unless you absolutely must. I'm afraid of the DEA" (literal quote!).
And he is a kindly dentist too, what a shame he has to fear for his career like that!
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I'm not proud. Worked for me every time (now I have no teeth, when they took them out, they gave me like 10 Vicodin). Ended up coming back for more and more.
Please try it next time rather than suffer.
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patient2all
It's a sad world, getting sadder by the day....
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patient2all
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 293
Loc: usa
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If you get that site going, PM me. I may put a link to it on some of my sites.
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patient2all
It's a sad world, getting sadder by the day....
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JeanneLynn
Member
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 104
Loc: The Bible Belt
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I do think it is terrible that some dentists and doctors won't prescribe pain medications. When I had my gallbladder out, the doctor gave me darvocet, which isn't a very strong pain killer. It didn't help me at all, so I just went back to Motrin. My best friend's husband had a vasectomy on the same day, and he had a real good doctor, who actually prescribed him Percocet!
I would change dentists if I were you. I would leave a note explaining why when you pick up your records. And when you look for a new dentist, be sure to mention to the new one why you left your old one.
My dentist is really sneaky, or so she thinks! She'll write me a prescription for a "real strong pain killer" and it will be Naprosyn or 800mg Motrin! Like I'm going to pay $15 for a bottle of 30 Motrin Tablets when I can buy 1000 tablets for $8.99 at Sam's Club. I just toss the prescription out. I've got an appointment for a new dentist in two weeks, hopefully they will be a little less sneaky!
I do think that there should be a website for doctors where patients could leave them feedback, like on eBay. There are good doctors and bad doctors, and I'm not just talking about pain medicine prescriptions. It is very hard to find out much about a doctor before he takes your life into his hands. I know more about the people I buy from on eBay than I do about my doctor!
I think it is a terrible shame that doctor's are afraid to prescribe painkillers to people who have a legitimate need for them. It is terrible to suffer in pain because your doctor is afraid to prescribe something.
Patient2all, I know what you mean about the head pain. I have TMJ and dental problems, and there is nothing you can do to escape the pain. It hurts to talk, breathe, or even turn your head. Eating is almost impossible. I buy Slim Fast shakes by the case at Sam's club because half the time, I can't even chew without agony. The TMJ pain spreads over the entire jaw and up to the ear and eye too! Valium helps the TMJ because you don't grind and clench as much at night, but doctors don't even want to prescribe that very much either.
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Janbo
Newbie
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Northeast, USA
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Quote:
"So why not make it easier and try to find the smaller number of GOOD doctors and have stories posted about them that are positive? If you do it right, it will benefit both the doctors and their potential patients."
Makes sense to me. While it sure IS tempting to have a negative list of doctors - one that might be called: "These Are The MDs To See If You Really Enjoy Suffering!" that sort of thing is guaranteed to get those libel fires a-burning.
A few years back, when it became evident that some MDs were still telling FMS patients that "fibromyalgia is all in your head" and were otherwise treating them badly, a fibromyalgia web site compiled a "good doctor" list of compassionate physicians.
This FMS "good doctor" designation is based more on the doctor's attitude and willingness to work with FMS patients than on a specific treatment protocol and the names of physicians are submitted by FMS patients. It does save a newly-diagnosed fibro patient the hassle of being shuffled from one disbelieving doctor to another.
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JB
Not really invisible - it just seems that way
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purppoptart
Journeyman
Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 83
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My dentist is a wonderful woman, however, her cure for all pain is "take Tylenol", her father (who is now retired), used to prescribe Percocet for everything  I miss him.
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......and his hair was.....PERFECT!!
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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"You sure can be sued for posting that a doctor is a "incompetent bastard." It's certainly defamatory. How could you prove that it's true."
n-n-n-no no..
see, the whole entire total point, i.e. the gist, thrust of the argument, is that we'd NOT be calling them that.
Please, please, that is not what I said here. Or maybe meant to say (I was tired).
In case I made an error, I meant to say we'd build a database, NOT isulting drs. but making sure our fellow cpers know that this particular hospital..mmmmmmm......ain't particular Best if kept off the board forthcoming with the old symathy..
Reasonable?
But hey, if anyone is still scared and still wants to make a sacrifice for change (which is how throughout history things changed in the fist place), then let me know, and I will gladly serve eight to 15 for my 50 million fellow CPers no questions asked, and you can punch up this post right here to back it up.
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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I have an extremely sensitive mouth and have had a ton of dental work done. I do tend to put it off as long as possible and get Best if kept off the board for it when I finally go in. Last time when I had a back tooth broken and was really hurting, he asked me why I am waiting so long to come in. Had to know that tooth was going to break. Said I needed a root canal. Then the tears came. And I told him the truth. I said "Doctor. You are a good dentist. I have been going to you for 10 years now. Your work is excellent. But you know I have a very low threshold for oral pain and every time I have had to have a root canal (I've had 4) you have told me to take tylenol even though I tell you it is not going to work. Once the novacaine wears off, I am in serious agony. I have even thought of taking my business elsewhere, because you refuse to control my pain. The thought of another root canal makes me want to run out of here" He sits back and says that most patients of his have no serious issues with pain during a root canal, they find it a relief in fact. I told him that it HURTS me more than I can bear and I am just going to pull the tooth than to go through this again. Asked him to refer me to an oral surgeon. He put his hand on my shoulder, told me to wait. Came back with a blister pack of Vicodin ES. Asked me to let him do the root canal as he did not want me to lose a tooth because of this.
Why not explain how painful it is to the dentist? Make him listen!
One thing that does kind of bother me is that you said something about going through WDs and you were hoping to get something from your dentist. If that is really the reason, then maybe he really shouldn't be writing you out a script? No flames please. If you are in pain, then I would hope he would give you what you need. But if it is just WDs, than you can't expect him to write a narcotic out for something that could be taken care of with an OTC med or a prescription NSAID.
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Vicadonna
Stranger
Reged: 12/09/03
Posts: 11
Loc: New York,N.Y. USA
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I have had surgeries, tooth pulled, tooth pain and always had to beg, plead and argue with these people that I have to trust with my life. It absolutely infuriates me. In fact, finding any Medical Professional who is "FAIR" about prescribing for pain is such a rarity and I also can speak for friends and relatives. I have NEVER heard of anyone NOT needing pain medication for a root canal. That's absurd! I would call and keep calling that Dentist and explain the pain I was in, what I have taken, how much I took of it and that I NEED something stronger. I don't know what the story is about the withdrawal situation but, to me, that's besides the point at this moment in time and it just so happens that if you were to get any help from this Dentist it would just be killing two birds with one stone,,for now. I hope by now you are feeling a little better and I would start looking for another Dentist for the next time. Good Luck to you,,, with everything.
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carrigaline
Journeyman
Reged: 01/22/03
Posts: 82
Loc: So Cal
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Vica, you must have a really special dentist. I've had several root canals over the years performed by different dentists, and I've never been given anything for pain except tylenol or advil. I was given prescriptions for T-3s following extraction of wisdom teeth and dental surgery but never for a root canal. It would be nice though....
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fred2112
Journeyman
Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 73
Loc: US
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Quote:
I've got terrible pain in my teeth (following root canal), and it seems at least the sinuses are involved.
I feel for you Red. I have had nasty sinus problems (maxillary and ethmoid) since '97. It is the worst pain ever because, as some one else mentioned, it involves the head. 2 surgeries and it still bothers me. The medications I have for my herniated discs and fibro don't touch the sinus pain during a flare up. It truly is hell on earth.
I have to say I always enjoy your posts.
I pray you (and everyone else) find relief.
Sincerely,
Fred
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 914
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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BEFORE YOU READ THIS POST; I WILL NEVER EVERY TRY TO OFF MYSELF AGAIN, SO WHEN YOU READ ANYTHING LIKE THAT; IT'S JUST MY MORBID SENSE OF FUN.... PLEASE, ANYONE HERE WHO FEELS SERIOUSLY THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION, SCREAM LONG AND LOUD TO US AND ANYONE WITHIN REACH. IT JUST DOES NOT SOLVE IT. I PROMISE.
Hmmm, still having trouble posting the way I used to, because I am still so close to..suicide by ocean, large thing without feelings, but don't want to leave the house uncleaned and mess up the train schedule for everyone else, so I make it thru another day.
That would be the only reason.
I am down to two cats and I know they will be taken care of.
My husband would probably be better off.
Okay...reason for post...
When I was twenty I was incredibly (for my LA area, era, and appearance) drug-naive. No drugs, no tolerance.
I needed to have teeth pulled for braces (thank you Retail Clerks UNION!!!!))) and my wisdoms came in too. They tried to split up the surgeries, but I said "please do it at once."
So they did.
I would not go under. Would not. Freaked out the surgeon. Woke up and was told I was in unusual pain.
Doctor wrote Diladud for me. Still don't know how to pronounce that; but it was to me a huge amount...he said with eight teeth out at once and my reaction so far, he would be surprised not to see me again.
This is what I still remember: My then boyfriend was calling around to fill this; no one wanted to tell him if they had it (pharm, that is) for fear of hold-ups.
Finally found it filled it used it.
Guess what.
Just took the edge of the pain. If I had any idea what that meant, yes, to hell with other's trauma, I would have walked in front of something. But I didn't.
I used it til I didn't need it; threw the rest away; never thought about it.
I remembered this experience finally early this year when going thru this latest bout of self-hatred and irritation.
Maybe I just don't have the right stuff. To kill pain.
I post this story so others will feel less 'weak'. I am beginning to think pain perception is like blue eyes or earlobes, only difference is that one can train oneself to a point to disregard pain. But the initial sensation, well, that, just comes as it will.
I too just went thru cleaning and pain and was offered nothing. I still have a molar that is infecting my sinuses but my insurance works on the 'ignore and wait til they go away plan' so I am trying to fix my back first.
I think it is an excellent idea to blacklist rude doctors, not say they won't prescribe, just quote hurtful comments and actions...see how many of THEM want to stand up for themselves and believe in themselves after humiliation...
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Edited by prettyday (06/04/04 09:03 PM)
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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One thing that does kind of bother me is that you said something about going through WDs and you were hoping to get something from your dentist. If that is really the reason, then maybe he really shouldn't be writing you out a script? No flames please. If you are in pain, then I would hope he would give you what you need. But if it is just WDs, than you can't expect him to write a narcotic out for something that could be taken care of with an OTC med or a prescription NSAID
It was an unlucky coincidence, and in retrospect I was really hoping for an non-narcotic. My teeth were, and are, in serious agony, and I think the prospect of WD, never fully experienced, may have given me "evil thoughts"
As it happens, I got nothing, but I wish I could've at least walked out of there with some diclofenac..
Bringing my head back to reality - I would actually have refused opiates at that point. But I'd have loved the opportunity to refuse them when offered, for once. Does this make sense? Probably not.
I can see that my moral battle with mischief, fuelled by slight WD is worrisome, but I was thinking with my emotions, and never even asked for meds.
I like your story about when you told your dentist the truth. It seems like he had some genuine empathy!
Red.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I don't drink coffee in the mornings. I am a soda drinker--Mt. Dew, Dr. Pepper or Cherry Coke. I drink it all day and have since I was a child. This has destroyed my teeth--literally.
I have have had numerous root canals, 4 wisdom teeth extracted (by surgery) and more fillings--even on my front teeth--than I can count. I have a rare genetic mutation (my word, not theirs) where all my molars have 4 roots. I have always had pain after root canals. My dentists and endodontists are all fond of Vicodin ES as the pain reliever of choice for MAJOR dental work. Otherwise I get nothing for pain (and do not ask for pain meds--ever)...and I am the one for whom Novocaine did not numb my teeth--even after seven injections. Weird.
My next tooth issue (I presently have a tooth broken off at the gum line that causes severe pain when even my tongue accidently touches it--God forbid I accidentally chew on that side of my mouth or it's a half-hour or more of severe pain--so bad that no narcotic would even help it) is going to be surgically extracted under general anesthetic. I would HOPE the surgeon believes in pain relief following extraction as I needed Percocet for my wisdom teeth pain following their extraction.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Quote:
I don't drink coffee in the mornings. I am a soda drinker--Mt. Dew, Dr. Pepper or Cherry Coke. I drink it all day and have since I was a child. This has destroyed my teeth--literally.
Figures 
Since I started on opiates almost 3 years ago, approximately, I've been happily bathing teeth and molars in delicious dr. Pepper. Not just the regular stuff! I mean the stuff from Dublin, TX with sugar instead of HFCS.
Love it, but never used to drink sodas before it. And I never had a dental problem before it.
To an extent, we have ourselves to blame for some of our own probs.
Night night
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
Since I started on opiates almost 3 years ago, approximately, I've been happily bathing teeth and molars in delicious dr. Pepper. Not just the regular stuff! I mean the stuff from Dublin, TX with sugar instead of HFCS.
Love it, but never used to drink sodas before it. And I never had a dental problem before it.
I know what you're talking about. Gel-Kam is a flouride treatment (twice as strong as toothpaste) that used to be prescription only but they changed that here and now all you have to do is ask the pharmacist and he'll ask "what flavor?" It seems to be protecting my teeth from the soda. Knock on wood.
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Your mileage may vary ...
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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My dentist, too, recommended the fluoride treatments (comes in a toothpaste-like tube) at home. The problem is that stuff HURTS my teeth. Seriously, it's like pouring acid on them or something. I can't tolerate the fluoride treatments and giving up my soda is akin to giving up my cigarettes...it ain't happenin'!
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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lardaman
Banned: flame wars, insults, offending others
Reged: 08/14/02
Posts: 244
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Try drinking fluoridated city water if your city or nearby city has it. Also, after you have a soda, rinse out your mouth with it. This is a proven method. Also less expensive!
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mkaemsa
Journeyman
Reged: 08/22/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Midwest
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Trampy,
What??? Libel, whatever. This person has the right to post his/her opinion without your response which was "id**tic. Come on now, "idiotic" resulting in a libel case.
I have read many of your posts and this one is way out of line.
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Deedie
Board Addict
Reged: 05/29/02
Posts: 347
Loc: USA
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I drink Diet Coke like it's water.
Oh no, know I'm a board addict.......according to DB.
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Dee
Edited by Deedie (06/07/04 09:44 PM)
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Guzele
Journeyman
Reged: 06/04/02
Posts: 71
Loc: Virginia
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Alright, Deedie! Of course, you know that board addcition is a gateway to worse things!!!!
I laugh so hard when I'm told naprosyn is such a "strong pain killer" The pharmacy even has the cajones to put the strong sleepy label on it!!!
I'm searching for a dentist now, I need dental implants.
I wish I could figure out a way to ask what their pain medicine policy is.
G
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"I was cured, all right.........."-Alex DeLarge, A Clockwork Orange
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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Quote:
Alright, Deedie! Of course, you know that board addcition is a gateway to worse things!!!!
I laugh so hard when I'm told naprosyn is such a "strong pain killer" The pharmacy even has the cajones to put the strong sleepy label on it!!!
I'm searching for a dentist now, I need dental implants.
I wish I could figure out a way to ask what their pain medicine policy is.
G
Yeah, I mean, wouldn't that be the humane and nice thing to do, just be honest and open about your opiate prescription policy?
You may attract a few junkies initially, but I am also convinced that 97% of trained doctors know how to spot one. ....and then send them to a Bupe clinic!
I'm not romanitcizing junkies, and I'm not promoting drug use, but I am saying that drug addicts are not filthy low-life scourges, criminals to be spat upon, either. They have a problem, they need help, not harrassment and ostracization..
Boy did I go beyone the scope of the matter here. Sorry for that! But I enjoyed it.
PS coming back to earth, I will try the tap water for a while. I mean, yeah it's disgusting tasting (I understand from my wife and her family that most Americans are so used to the taste of the water here, they don't notice the weird taste.  ) But hey, I do use it for brushing! Two to three times daily!
Red
ps let's end one myth right now...
Europeans have GREAT teeth and wonderful dental care on the whole.
The Brits, ehhh, well that's a different topic, folks.
But European dentistry is less obsessed with the cosmetics (straightenting, scraping, whitening) and deals more directly with decay, tartar, and serious dental problems). That's why a perfect white Hollywood smile, after years of orthodontics and scraping, cleaning and whitening, in Holland is referred to as an American mouth.
Me, I'm actually enjoying mine, though - when it works, these days!
Red
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Like i said ... find out what libel is before you go off attacking people. You'll obviously learn something. Defaming a doctor is not a good idea. They might even have a professional practice insurance policy that will pay for the lawsuit they'll bring against you.
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