kimbuka
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Midwest
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Oh God. I just got off the phone with my bestfriend (a breast-cancer survivor). Anyway, although she is beating the fight of her cancer, she still gets pain meds in low amounts. I am writing here because she told me that she had a script for #20 Vicadin. Apparently these were just regular Vic's...so she told me she added "ES" to this RX and sure enough, she got Vic ES instead of just Vic's.
I chewed her out because of how illegal it is to do that. How could she be so stupid??? I love her to death, we have been friends for years and the strength she has deminstrated with her life is admirable...but now I might just loose her forever!!! Won't she go to jail for this??? Won't she be arrested as soon as the Doctor finds out that she wrote on the RX??? I mean, just how long will I be able to talk with her and see her before they send her to prison??? I am so scared for her. Has anyone here known of anyone that has done this? Is there anything I can do to help her with this?
I will be praying more than ever for her now.
***PS: After posting this, someone mentioned to me that the people reading and posting here might assume that this is about me and not my friend. I couldn't believe what I was being told...even more, I couldn't understand why. So, I'll say this...maybe it will help.
I may be dumb, but I am not stupid!!!
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kimbuka
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Midwest
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kimbuka -
If your friend's prescription was filled (and you indicated it was) it is very unlikely that her prescribing physician would ever find out that she'd altered the prescription. Unless your friend had been getting multple prescriptions or there was something else about this particular prescription that was suspicious, pharmacists would very rarely question the way the prescription was written after the fact. Usually, if they think the prescription has been altered in any way they will defer filling it right away until they call the dr. Sooo... I doubt your friend has anything to worry about.
In general, though, I agree with you - it is not a good idea to alter prescriptions! (My sister once changed "20 tablets" to "30 tablets" for some Ambien and got into quite a bit of trouble for it because the pharmacist could see that it looked fairly obviously like it had been erased and rewritten ... How stupid, huh?!} But just adding ES to Vicodin probably didn't attract any attention.
Your friend is lucky to have such a caring friend!!
tortie2
Written by: tortie2
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debbie4884
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 135
Loc: Michigan
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Actually, I'll admit that I did that exact same thing (a while ago)and nothing happened. Your friend isn't going to get in trouble now. If they called the doctor before filling the prescription and asked, then she would get into some trouble, but not now. Don't worry. (and please don't make her worry about it now-she knows it was wrong).
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Debbie
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Dante6677
Member
Reged: 08/14/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Fl. Panhandle
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Futher more altering a presciption will only get you a slap on the wrist unless you have a criminal record allready. I know people who have altered scipts for schedule 2 nacotics and only recieved 3 months probation. It also depends on where you live.
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kimbuka
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Midwest
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Thanks all...when she calls me tonight I'll let her know she should be ok. I really let her have it lastnightand I'll want to emphasize on how sorry I am and that I still lover her to death!!!
She had never done anything like that before...and to be honest, I can't figure out if she really wanted to get the stronger med or possibly see if she could get away with it...ya know??? I sincerely doubt that she will ever do something that stupid again, especially after I think I scared her straight!!! Hehehe
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Dante6677
Member
Reged: 08/14/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Fl. Panhandle
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If Im not mistaken adding ES (extra strength) only adds more acetominophen(tylenol) not more hydrocodone.
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ruderick
Journeyman
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 59
Loc: south carolina/florida native
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Post deleted by ruderick
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tortie2
Journeyman
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 59
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Actually, Vicodin contains 5 mg Hydrocodone and 500 mg Acetaminophen and Vicodin ES contains 7.5 mg Hydrocodone and 700 mg Acetaminophen. Regards,
tortie2
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 868
Loc: usa
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It actually takes some time to catch up....most pharmacies verify ALL narcotic scripts...so depends on how busy the docs office is & how astute the person answering the phone or fax to confirm is....I wouldn't make a habit of it, cuz the WORST outcome would be her doctor losing her trust & her not getting a script next time she really NEEDS one...she should call them if she needs something other than whats written...TRUST ME on this(an RN)
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 868
Loc: usa
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It actually takes some time to catch up....most pharmacies verify ALL narcotic scripts...so depends on how busy the docs office is & how astute the person answering the phone or fax to confirm is....I wouldn't make a habit of it, cuz the WORST outcome would be her doctor losing her trust & her not getting a script next time she really NEEDS one...she should call them if she needs something other than whats written...TRUST ME on this(an RN)
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jodee
Stranger
Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 13
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A similar thing happened to my brother a few years ago....he changed the quantity. He got away with it....UNTIL, he called the pharamacy for a refill! When the pharmacy called the doc for approval, the doc indicated that the quantity did not match what he had written the RX for. He had a warrent issued and turned himself him for booking (too afraid they would come to his work) and was held at the jail for a few hours. He had to post bail (or bond - whatever it is called), hire a lawyer and appear in court. He was found not guilty because the judge felt that the doc possibly could have made a mistake on what he wrote in the medical records - He was very lucky! So make sure she does not call the pharmacy for a refill!!!! She should go and get a new handwritten script if she needs the meds in the future.
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
kimbuka - If your friend's prescription was filled (and you indicated it was) it is very unlikely that her prescribing physician would ever find out that she'd altered the prescription. Unless your friend had been getting multple prescriptions or there was something else about this particular prescription that was suspicious, pharmacists would very rarely question the way the prescription was written after the fact. Usually, if they think the prescription has been altered in any way they will defer filling it right away until they call the dr. Sooo... I doubt your friend has anything to worry about.
In general, though, I agree with you - it is not a good idea to alter prescriptions! (My sister once changed "20 tablets" to "30 tablets" for some Ambien and got into quite a bit of trouble for it because the pharmacist could see that it looked fairly obviously like it had been erased and rewritten ... How stupid, huh?!} But just adding ES to Vicodin probably didn't attract any attention.
MANY pharmacies ROUTINELY fax back to the prescribing doctor ALL prescriptions for controlled substances. If they do it for Klonopin, they will sure as heck do it for hydrocodone. It takes a few days and not all the doctors look at them ... but it can happen. If a doctor recognizes an altered scrip, they can call the police ... or drop you as a patient. If your doctor doesn't write for Vicodin ES, your friend could be in trouble. Altering a scrip to obtain a controlled substance is at least one felony. Tell your friend that what she did could get her several years in state prison, theoretically at least.
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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I second that.
My doc also photocopies all scripts and they go in my chart.
The pharmacy routinely faxes the script back to the doc.
As IMSUSCOT1 wrote, it depends on whether the doctor office staff handling that task catch it.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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kimbuka
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Midwest
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Ouch! And here I had told her it seemed everything would be ok after reading the above posts. Not to mention, I told her I was sorry for making such a huge deal about it and scaring her insane! I did, however, explain that even though she "might" be alright and not get into any trouble, I had also said that it wouldn't be the smartest thing to ever try again. Besides, like I said she is a survivor of breast cancer and usually gets the MUCH stronger meds if she needs them. I still haven't figured out (I don't think she has either) why in the world she did something so stupid.
I still adore her, always will.
Thank you for the feedback.
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debbie4884
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 135
Loc: Michigan
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As I said before- I had done this before and here is how it happened for me. I had come from the dentist and didn't look at the script until I was in the parking lot of the pharmacy. I pull it out and I see he had given me about 15 pills and it just said Vicodin on it. At the same moment I glance down on the floor of my van and what lays there, but a black pen! I just picked that pen up and scribbled ES after the word Vicodin. I didn't take much time to think about it- it was sort of an impulse thing.
Anyway the pharmacist called me over after I sat there for a minute and said- it doesn't say on your prescription on how many to take- 1 or 2 every so many hours. I said well I assume it's 1- I can't read those things. He said your probably right and filled it. That was a looong time ago and nothing came of it. But, I'm not saying it is a wise thing to do! I figured at the time if it came back to me, I would just deny, deny, deny and tell the dentist- Well you must have wrote ES on it and didn't realize you did! What proof would he have? I know BAD DEBBIE (slapping my own wrist).
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Debbie
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Just curious- why wouldn't you guys write 'HP' instead of 'ES'? Hp has 10 mg of hydro, ES has 7.5.
-yawkaw
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 352
Loc: great lakes
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when you get into the HP range it starts to raise eyebrows. at my phamacy they keep it in a closet. not like the others. so it seems like a physcolgical thing.
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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mizzzj
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 232
Loc: Town of snooping Post Office
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Yeah, a psychological thing. I guess if you're gonna do it, make it count!
If this Dr's office is anything like my disorganized crazy Dr's office, they won't be able to find their tush if all their fingers are flashlights, let alone a fax...J~
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If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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I'd guess if the doc did not photocopy the RX, it is quite possible a change like adding ES may pass without challenge.
I certainly would not suggest it though.
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Don't worry about it! I've been a chronic pain patient for 15 years going to different doctors and such for second opions, but mainly I always go to the same pharmacy. and IF theres any question about the script they call thr Dr. rite then and there. its not a triplicate scropt so the Dr. will never see it again after so many weeks or so the paper script is destroyed and thats the end of it,
I've had legit scripts questions and they called rite there, so if they filled it DON'T worry, next time just ask the Dr. to make it the ES, God Bless, Tim 
Ps I've known people to add a 1 in front of the 15 and got away with it.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 868
Loc: usa
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they don't always call right then & there & these days almost 100% of pharmacies verify narcotic scripts...they fill them, but ethier call the dr's ofc after or fax to confirm the drug, quantity & pt info....plenty of people have picked up their scripts thinking they got away with it, only to get a phone call the next day....THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA & SHOULDN'T BE PRACTICED REGULARLY
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kimbuka
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Midwest
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Well, Lynne (my friend) is doing fine and seems ok. She said nothing out of the ordinary has happened over this. But, she swore she'll never do it again, she said the stress from being so scared about it was way too much.
I told her about posting what she did and what some people had said...and on top of that I told her that it seemed she really didn't do such a BIG thing being that she only added "ES" which apparently did nothing more that give her a little stronger med. I'm not condoning, just posting the update.
Thanks for all the posts.
She still hasn't explained or made sense as to why she did that when she has a Doc that prescribes Oxy (YUCK!)...
When she went through radiation, she was over-radiated and burned, so the Doc still willingly gives her meds for pain.
Take care all.
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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I often wonder why these sorts of stories raise any eyebrows on this board seeing as people here risk their necks all the time ordering from IOPs or email sources, possibly conducting sales or trades between each other. I don't know if the risks or odds of getting caught are greater for forging or altering a prescription?
I posted another similar incident just recently.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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It may seem like a little thing, but I believe the law sees it in black and white.
I don't know if they call it tampering or fraud...
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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dsack
Veteran
Reged: 01/20/02
Posts: 523
Loc: midwest
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If LE was to get involved, they would probably charge you with tampering and fraud, just to make sure one of them stuck.
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Anglwink
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/03
Posts: 605
Loc: East coast
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QOUTE:MANY pharmacies ROUTINELY fax back to the prescribing doctor ALL prescriptions for controlled substances. If they do it for Klonopin, they will sure as heck do it for hydrocodone. It takes a few days and not all the doctors look at them ... but it can happen. If a doctor recognizes an altered scrip, they can call the police ... or drop you as a patient. If your doctor doesn't write for Vicodin ES, your friend could be in trouble. Altering a scrip to obtain a controlled substance is at least one felony. Tell your friend that what she did could get her several years in state prison, theoretically at least.
Trampy
I guess this all depends on where you live...because to be honest, my sister has been calling in scripts for about 15 years (along with changing them) I have tried to help, but she just doesn't want too stop!. She was caught twice, when at the pharmacy, they called the Dr. to confirm...after being caught twice, she only received 1 year probation. My point here is that if the pharmacies fax the scripts back to the Drs., she would have been in PRISON a long time ago. Anglwink
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"Believe"
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bargsbeer69
Journeyman
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 80
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Heres a Little bit of info for anyone. A really good friend of mine Is A Pharmacist At Wal-Mart She's very By the Book does not Hook Friends up or anything Like that ,But she was telling me if your ever going to pass off a Fake or Altered Script Do it at a Small privately owned Pharmacy She said they are way less likely to Question a Script atleast in FL she said. With all the competition the smaller pharmacies are hurting now a days with a Wal-Mart Or CVS or whatever on every street corner
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Carmanti
Stranger
Reged: 01/01/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Ohio
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If it's any help, I had a friend a few years back who WROTE a script for 30 Darvocets. She got caught on the spot, and only got 1 month of probation. She did lose her Nursing license for 3 months, though. Anyway, it has been my opinion, from hearing stories like yours, that if she were going to be in trouble, they would not have filled the script. Also, you have to look at it from the Pharmacist's point of view. I he or she questioned it now, I imagine the Pharmacist would get in trouble for filling it. Just a thought.
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-Honesty is the best Policy, but Insanity makes a better defense.
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jodee
Stranger
Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 13
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I posted earlier in this thread about my brother, and just wanted to update what the offical charges were against him. It was "Obtaining a Controlled medication by Fraud". Just FYI.
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