dsmmcm
Board Addict
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 362
Loc: southwest US
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Quote:
I disagree.There are many people who make their living
"behind the wheel" Truck Drivers,sales people, etc,etc,
It is "because their pain can be managed" that they are able to keep their jobs! ALMOST anything, can effect your performance behind the wheel.Emotions,a heavy meal, TO "MUCH" coffee,etc.Good drivers are able to identify
these threats and adjust the way they drive. However, mixing something like benzos and booze, is not treatment but a "choice" the person makes.They DESERVE the punishment they get for making the wrong "choice"
I agree with everything you said. What did it have to do with the previous posts? The implication in my post was that drug abusers shouldn't be behind the wheel. No matter if the drug is alcohol or hydro or whatever. I assume you don't disagree with that.
D
Edited by dsmmcm (05/15/04 05:48 PM)
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neonsign2003
Old Hand
Reged: 12/26/02
Posts: 468
Loc: midwest
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I guess you would have to define "abuser"
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Say what??? No, it is not the same thing. Using and or abusing drugs is not the same issue. Frankly, I do not care if people want to get totally smashed on alcohol. I don't care if someone wants to shoot up heroin, smoke crack, smoke pot, etc....I rarely drink. I generally have a drink at weddings etc...I don't have any alcohol in my house. Strike that, I have one beer and a half bottle of red wine sitting in the pantry from a party we had here in April. I don't take ilegal drugs. That being said, as long as a person who does choose to take illegal substances does not hurt anyone else, I don't care what they do. It's their business. I am not condoning illegal drug use either. When it becomes my business, is when the actions of others have the potential to hurt others. The issue in this thread is driving while impaired.
A tolerant person who takes one hydro for pain, is not impaired anglwink. In fact, I would rather see a person driving on one hydro if they have pain issues, than driving unmedicated in serious pain. As someone else said on here, many things can affect driving ability. Emotions, pain, drugs, lack of sleep, alcohol. etc...With your logic, should a cancer patient not be allowed to drive because they are taking pain killers? That's ridiculous. It's a blanket statement. That cancer patient should not drive if they have taken any amount of painkillers that would make them IMPAIRED. That's the issue. Read the warnings on the side of your pill bottles. It says to use care while driving or operating dangerous machinery. It does not say it is illegal to drive when using this medication.
It is not illegal to drive after drinking either. If a person consumes an alcholic beverage and is not impaired, they can legally drive. Again, being impaired is the issue. The original poster has been charged with driving while impaired three times. Obviously she is not a good judge of when she is impaired. If I were her I would not drink and drive at all.
As for me, I never mentioned if I drove while taking medications, did I? For you to come on here talking about hypocrisy is quite presumptious of you. While I feel I do not need to justify myself to you, as I have never been charged with a DUI or a DWI, have never been involved in any car accidents that have involved my use of alcohol or medications (although the rear end of my car was totalled when a drunk driver smashed into it while it was parked on the side of the road. He tried to take off. Another time I was at a red light and a very impaired person slammed into the back of my car, and he DID take off. I ended up in the hospital and diagnosed with whiplash and bruising where the seatbelt was on my chest-could have been much worse) I will say this. I have had severe migraines where I have taken medication and felt I should not drive. Last year I was visiting my folks 56 miles away and I had an attack. I stayed over night. But I have also drove after taking one hydro for pain. If the pain is controlled and I am not impaired, yes I will drive if I have to. I have also have had migraines where I'd rather ride them out and not take anything. In that case, I would not drive. Why? Legally I am not under the influence, however I feel it is dangerous for me to drive while having moderate head pain. I can't concentrate fully on the task at hand (driving) if my head is pounding.
It would behoove you to understand the laws regarding the consumption of alcohol or medication before coming on here and throwing around words like hypocrisy.
Denial indeed.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1962
Loc: Texas
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This thread has really taken a wild turn! Buey, you are very well spoken, excellent post. There are times when my pain is so bad, my mind is only on my pain - I'm better off in bed rather than behind the wheel. Now, if I take my regular dose of Norco - I'm fine to drive or do anything. In fact, I have to take my pain medications to function at all. Great post.
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
... Trampy, this varies from state to state!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited by Trampy (05/15/04 09:22 PM)
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EMJ
Old Hand
Reged: 12/20/01
Posts: 471
Loc: Southeast US
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[quote)Jay, I live in the same state as the poster. EMJ
(quote)
I am curious how you know the state I live in?
I am not being snotty here, just curiuos.
Hope I did this quote thing right, but please read the pm's I sent and you will understand. EMJ
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I'm on the move to get past "Old Hand"
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kahuna
Journeyman
Reged: 01/12/04
Posts: 59
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Yeppers! Even you have toadmit that driving while under theinfluence of anything is dangerous, what if you crossed that middle line and slammed someone head on!! Horrible, I do like the fact that you have come here with alot of honesty and atleast putting this situation out here to be talked about, maybe it is a little theraputic for you. I for one have had my share of drunk driving issues, being the victim in one of them and friends of mine also were victims, I have no sympathy for drunk drivers, They should be made to go through the system and be charged for this very serious crime. I dont wish you locked up at this point, your family needs you, and from what I am reading you are digging deap and dealing with these issues as you must and as best you can.. That is the only stand up thing you can do at this point and I see you doing them. So now we wait for the hearing and see what your lawyer can do for you..because I have come to like you, whatever mistakes you have made, but you need to pay your dues on this one and hopefully it doesnt effect your family to much like loosing your kids, that wouuuld be awful and a clear WAKE UP CALL. this has happend to you several times, not just once, so there maybe a serious self control issue going on here, I dont know, however I do support yoiu, I hope the very best for you mainly bedause of your family, doesnt matter how long inbetween you have gotten caught, it is how many times inbetween that you havent gotten caught, your not superwoman and sometime, something terrible may happen that you an neve take back.. I wish you all the very very best with the oncoming court fight your gonna have to deal with, Im hoping by just going through this part of the system will burn in peoples minds that it is just not cool to drink and drive and/or pop a bunch of pills then drive.. You take care.. and take it easy, one day at a time... Good Luck to ...
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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Regardless of how YOU are rationalizing this, a judge is going to see it HIS way. HE sees many cases like this all the time. He sees tons of people wo ratinalize things. Judges see so many people wo "only" drank "This ONE time" OPPS I GOT CUAGHT BUT I REALLY DON"T EVER DRINK>>>>POOR ME" Look. I am going through a divorce from an alcoholic. Denial and rationalization and key in these situations.You may believe what you are saying. And you are paying a lawyer. He is going to tell you what you wnt to hear. But what you are saying is ridiculous. Look at the situation. Get help. Be honest with yourself.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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If you waited for your breathalyzer for 2.5 hours after you were pulled over, yet you only had 3 beers plus 1/2 a shot AND you ate food, AND you body metabolizes 1 alcoholic drink per hour then you would have only blown about a .03. This DOES NOT ADD UP AT ALL>
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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Quote:
My 2nd DUI I was not breaking the law.
I already said, I had 2 bannana schnaps
Schnapps is very low proof(30%) whereas most vodkas are between 80 to 100, being a former bartender, as I am one myslef, you should know this, as well as the body's ability to metabolize a dink an hour, would not raise your blood alcohol level to .10.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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I do want to say,after making my way through all of this, that I do hope that you get help everything. Sounds like you are going through a rough time.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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Billyl
Board Addict
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 389
Loc: NorthEast
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I am in complete agreement with you Trampy. A 3rd drunk driving charge with 2 convictions in my state brings a mandatory 2 years in jail as it should. Untold numbers of innocent people are killed or maimed each year by irresponsable drunk drivers. The fact that this poster kept talking and admitted numerous offenses leaves me to believe she will get jail time. The fact that she has children has no bearing other than to prove how reckless and short sighted she is. As far as her regretting taking the breathalyzer test in most states that is an immediate presumption of guilt had she gone that route. This is the price one must pay when living in the fast lane of life.
Take care. Billylll
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cocolarue
Stranger
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
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This is a bad situation, if someone has had THREE DUI's they have a PROBLEM! This woman, while I do beleive can be helped and needs support at this time should NOT be allowed to drive until she gets cleaned up, BOTTOM LINE! I hope that you do get help but please remember that many of us have either been hit by someone under the influence or have lost someone in this manner, I lost a mom and an aunt by a drunk driver so I have ZERO tolerance for this behavior, I had to grow up without a mom because of someone like you so please understand my anger. I do NOT hate you nor do I think you should be locked up forever but obviously something needs to get your attention before you kill someone so whatever happens to you I hope it FORCES you to get help!
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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See, like I said. We have a million experts here all self-righteously telling this woman what her problems are and what to do about them.
And I am sure they are all just model citizens in every way. Who never make any mistakes but understand her and her problems so well as to make judgments about her.
Yeppers, follow my advise: Stick to your attorney and ignore this thread. It has taken on a life of its own.
I wanted to end with the old opinions are like... cliché but I remembered some even more appropriate lines:
"Let he who is free from sin cast the first stone." and
"Do not judge and you will not be judged."
I'm not even religious at all, but I think those statements are beginning to resonate quite well here.
Can we all just MOVE ON now?
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Quote:
Yawkaw,
You think that taking 1 or 2 (or more) of our pain meds doesn't inpair our judgement? ... I, too suffer chronic pain and I take pain meds, but I don't drive when I take them! Yawkaw, you of all people should understand this.
That is exactly what I am saying. It is perfectly acceptable for an opioid-tolerant individual to take their normal dose of opioids and then drive. Millions of people do it everyday without being a risk on the road.
At first opioids do intoxicate you- and then as time goes by, if taken daily, they stop giving you that euphoria. In order for people to still get high on their meds, they need to take extra and/or wait a while in between doses. If a person has been taking 4 Norco a day everyday for a year, that dose is not making them high, and it's not affecting their motor skills. Once you are tolerant, you stop nodding out in normal doses.
I can tell you from personal experience this is perfectly safe, and that the same goes for benzos. If anyone doubts this, feel free to call a pharmacy and ask if it is safe to drive on opioids or benzodiazepines after becoming tolerant to the sedative effects after several months of taking it. I guarantee they will say yes. Millions of Americans have to do this; they drive to work and function daily at their jobs while on opioids and/or benzodiazepines.
-yawkaw
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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Driving under the influence is driving under the influence! The point being that the law determines AT WHICH POINT YOU ARE UNDER THE INFLUENCE! If you choose to drive while using alcohol or pain meds AND you begin making driving errors which bring you to the attention of the police and are stopped for DUI/DWI--be prepared to pay the piper! The moral argument is obvious and each person must make the decision for him/herself about whether or not they are coherent enough to drive. It simply is not feasible to restrict every person using mood-altering medications (including stimulants, pain meds, tranquilizers and such) from driving. Even removing some peoples' licenses doesn't stop them from driving. Personal responsibility is the key here.
And the person who started this thread admitted to her own problems and bad judgment. There is no room for feeble excuses. She got busted. She needs to pay the price--just as anyone who drives under the influence and who is caught must do. Trying to rationalize or justify her behavior because "other people are doing it" just doesn't hold water.
When my mother and law was getting HIGH doses of opioids for her cancer pain some years ago and was falling asleep behind the wheel, I called her pharmacy and her doctor and complained, BEGGING them to advise her to refrain from driving. I received the identical response from both places..."People who are tolerant to opioids are perfectly able to drive." She, and the others who drove on the same roads with her, are lucky she never killed anyone. And after multiple accidents, they finally took her license (and she then stopped driving.)
The only thing ANYONE can do is be HONEST with themselves, avoid drinking or using pain meds if you know you have to drive. Even people who drive while they are tired can be dangerous--as another poster poignantly mentioned. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...it's that simple.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Billyl
Board Addict
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 389
Loc: NorthEast
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Quote: "Let he who is free from sin cast the first stone."
I've never been arrested or in trouble because I choose to follow the rules of our society. Here comes the rock!
Quote: "Do not judge and you will not be judged."
Who's kidding who you have already judged anyone's comments you don't agree with. Ever hear of jury duty?
I guess what your saying is that no one is responsible for their actions it's someone else's fault? I did not judge the original poster merely pointed out the consequences of her admitted actions. No I don't feel sorry for her perhaps pity is a better feeling. Take care. Billylll
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Great post Billy.
Yes, we have not only the right, but a moral obligation in my opinion, to speak out against driving while under the influence. Using nycalternati's logic, our lawmakers should not be making laws because that would be "judging people". As you eluded to Billy, we wouldn't have a jury system because people would not be allowed to judge another person's behavior.
This does not have anything to do with judging the original poster. It has everything to do with speaking out against her BEHAVIOR. No, I am not a saint. I am not a perfect human being. But I do NOT drive while impaired, PERIOD. If I did choose to get into a car and drive after consuming four drinks, and I got caught and charged, then the judge or jury would have every right to JUDGE my behavior and dole out the appropraite punishment for what I did. I can bet that my friends and family would never let me hear the end of it either..well they wouldn't for a very long time anyway. They would have every right and a moral obligation to verbally chastise me and do what they could to convince me to never drive while impaired again.
There are way too many deaths and injuries caused by drunk driving. You would think after all the years of groups like MADD trying to educate the public, that this would be a rarity. It isn't. Read the statistics I posted. All of those deaths and injuries could have been avoided simply by people making a choice not to drink or to consume drugs to the point of impairment and drive.
For you to allude that the members here who are speaking out against DUI are just a bunch of self righteous, hypocrtical windbags, is morally bankrupt. Why not rest on the side of safety, and, as another poster so eloquently wrote, personal responsibilty, instead of calling the people who abhor this behavior self righteous?
You really need to seperate the concepts of judging a person as a whole and making a judgement on bad behavior. Judging behavior is done every day, from parents who discipline their children, to judges and juries who punish people for crimes they are convicted of. Very few people are lost causes. Their behavior is what is being judged and what they are being punished for. After all in our courts we do not throw people in jail because they are "bad people". We put them in prison for specific bad behaviors that society has deemed are crimes. DWI IS a crime, and it is judged accordingly. Get it?
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Well, obviously this thread will continue some more...
...Anyway, after reading how nice and helpful everyone was to this poster, I surely wouldnt want to ask any of YOU guys for help regarding anything, I can tell you that. The fact that anyone feels they cant post on a board like this because they are afraid of being attacked is a problem pure and simple. It has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the poster or agreeing with their actions. It has everything to with treating someone as a human being.
Edited by DrugBuyers (05/17/04 03:24 PM)
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Read my reply to Billy, Buey. I think it addresses your post.
But, feel free to reply with your comments/disagreements. I know theyll be coming and welcome them. I do not intend to censor nor do I pretend to know all the answers.
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kahuna
Journeyman
Reged: 01/12/04
Posts: 59
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quote from drugbuyers.com's handlers...
Dear friends:
Thank you for making drugbuyers.com a friendly and informative place to exchange information. We thank you very much for visiting and participating, we think that this board is very lucky to have a large number of caring members, lots of posts, and excellent information. We want things to stay that way. We want to continue offering our members the best information about buying meds online.
We need you help. Please press the notify moderator botton when you notice improper posts
We will not tolerate unpolite posts or silly arguments between memberss. We am really tired of seeing our valuable space wasted with off topic comments, personal attacks and insults.
The most important rules are just common sense: to be polite, to be nice to others, to help, and to stay on topic
All threads are to discuss topics that have something to do with buying meds on line :-) and each thread is to discuss the topic at hand.
We will review all post made in the past two days and all people acting as moderators, and those that made unpolite posts, or personal attacks will be banned for the benefit of all caring members.
All posts made in the las 48 hours can we edited and we suggest that all members that broke the rules go back to their improper posts to edit them
Please do not tell others how, or what, to post. We already have moderators and that is their job.
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Dazzle
Journeyman
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Sun Belt
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Hi All,
I've been reading this post and there is certainly no absence of passionate opinions.
Regardless of the stances taken here, I have been impressed by the fact that this topic has spawned numerous deep, thought-provoking discussions. Many have shared personal insights supporting their opinions, some very touching.
Most of the angles have been nicely addressed, so I won't repeat history. Even though I suspect a lot of us are going to need blood pressure meds after participating in this board,  the bottom line is that I was intrigued to see such deep involvement.
A parting thought... if we want to get someone to listen to us, see things from our perspective, fussing at them probably isn't the answer. We just start to sound like the teacher in Charlie Brown. No criticism intended--just an observation.
Peace,
~ Dazzle
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DrugBuyers
Administrator
Reged: 11/18/01
Posts: 1226
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
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You wanted to know your options and what you may be facing... but you seem to be upset for not getting more signs of approval, support and encouragement.
We think you got a pretty good response. Trampy,Billyl, moonshade, and others, gave you some excellent answers and many members gave you their opinions on many of life most important topics.
You did not ask to be judged on the board but... some posted how they feel about what you did... and in a sense that is pretty much what you are facing...
We thank all members for participating in this thread   
We can only ask all members to stay on topic and to refrain from telling others how to post or what to post. Please remember that we have moderators and a "notify moderator botton" under every post :-)
We are closing this thread as we think the initial questions have been very well answered.
If any member wants to discuss any of the issues raised on this thread: please start a new topic in the proper forum.
Thanks
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