Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I think everyone should chill out. We'd all be eating moon pies and balony sandwitches (sp?) if the DEA was seeking to jail folks buying RX's online.
Here's an honest statement that most probably don't want to admit...
Truth is, with this Free Board being "free" there probably ARE some people that are members here only to get information to buy meds for illegal and/or abusive reasons...but law enforcement doesn't want the drug addict, they want the drug PUSHERS...if anyone's going to jail, should an applicable law go federal, it would be the doctors and pharmacies...not the "patients."
I logically have to agree here. Not because it makes everyone feel better but I really think this is the truth. I'm sure they watch the boards and I'm sure they know probably everything about you and I but that's government! It's the way it always has been and always will be. They are nosey and will know what everyone is up to. They are probably concerned with the amount of prescription drugs that are being ordered and sent out across the US but again back to the bigger and even smaller fish to fry scenario... they don't have the time or probably even the resources to tackle what they view as a problem. Sure people abuse these sites but there are many of us who don't and because of that I think we are OK. I don't doubt that there are a few visits here and there sporatically to scare the $hit out of us but that's there job I guess. This is just my opinion and I hope it helps and eases some of your worries.
--Train 
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Been following this thread and it's pretty interesting.
I seriously doubt that any DEA agent would waste his time on "catching" abusers who buy from a US online pharmacy. Some of you said what I was thinking. Why not go after the pharmacies or the docs? POL comes to mind. How many people had prescriptions over there at some point? Did any of you get a call or a letter from the DEA? I would imagine if they were interested in getting the end users so to speak, they would be questioning the people who had scripts for controlled substances at POL. I had two open scripts over there when they were shut down. One was for pain and the other one was a anti-nausea med. No big deal. Also, there was a pharmacy called Providence awhile back that also was shut down by the DEA. Anyone get a call from the feds about having scripts over there? Not that I ever heard about.
The DEA is interested in getting the pushers and the dealers, not chronic pain patients, even the ones who maybe use a little too much hydro at times. The DEA is not even going after the addicts who are forging scripts down at your local CVS. That's local law enforcement.
Hey who knows...maybe some bored DEA agent will have a little fun and pay some poor person a visit for ordering through a US OP. But I've heard very few stories like that. Look at all the people who use OPs. Say the DEA was going after even 1% of the people who double dip. You'd hear all about it on these boards.
If you are a pain patient, have med records and do not double dip, I'd say you have zero chance of getting in any legal trouble.
Heck, if the places like buymeds, tropical and ERX are still in business and the DEA is looking the other way, they certainly are not going to go after John Doe, construction worker with a herniated disk, even if John Doe was using 2 different OPs.
Just my opinion folks.
Also, I think that at some point the OPs I mentioned above ARE going to be shut down. I am not exactly sure why they are allowed to operate. To be honest I prefer a records required OP with a phone consult; one that operates completely within the law. But that's just me.
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penzam1535
Member
Reged: 12/24/02
Posts: 193
Loc: between Syracuse and Buffalo
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Quote:
Why not go after the pharmacies or the docs? POL comes to mind. How many people had prescriptions over there at some point? Did any of you get a call or a letter from the DEA?
Yes.......And no I won't improvise
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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I'm sorry, I don't understand. Improvise? Do you mean you won't elaborate?
Well that's fine if you don't want to talk about it, but that leaves us back at square one.
You are the only person who has ever reported on here (that I know of) that they got a call or letter from the DEA on POL. I'd be interested in finding out why. Like I said, I had an open script for a controlled substance. I wasn't double dipping and wasn't too concerned about it. The only thing I was concerned about was getting my refills. But Russ from FedEx took care of it.
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/03/02
Posts: 1261
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
... To be honest I prefer a records required OP with a phone consult; one that operates completely within the law. But that's just me.
"... completely within the law"? I think it's debatable whether sending the doctor or OP a one-page record from a walk-in clinic with a doctor that was seen only once constitutes a "legitimate doctor-patient relationship" with the new doctor from the OP. This is an area where the law is evolving to meet the changes of technology. It's impossible to tell how this will play out. I know for a fact that Dr. David Bryson often spent 45 minutes on the phone with new patients and he would remember the details of their case when they had subsequent consultations and offer advice about non-drug treatment methods. Well, he made a lot of money and they went after him big-time. He was good at what he did and many of his patients were afraid to ask him for generic Norco because they didn't want to sound like a drug seeker. To me, it seemed clear that he did have legitimate doctor patient relationships because those long talks he had with his patients means a lot more than depending on a page or two of faxed records that could be easily faked or belong to someone else ... or be based strictly on the statements the patient made in one visit to a walk-in clinic. Sorry to burst all the bubbles, but read between the lines and decide if i'm right. I've heard of a place where the doctor never talks to the patient. A Physician's Assistant calls and asks what drug(s) you want. The more drugs they sell, the more money they make. Maybe they ask if you have any drug allergies. Most of these calls take less than five minutes.
So what if the OP has some records in the file? Most of the time they don't even check that the records are legit. And even if they are, so what? You can go to a clinic and tell a doctor you've never seen before that you have back pain and he'll tell you to take some OTC ibuprofen and will write it down. You then get a paper copy and that's all you need to get a Norco prescription. 100% legal?
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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ezgoin85
Newbie
Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 47
Loc: N.E.US
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I concur,.....1 page evaluations are troublesome.How is it that a chronic pain patient wouldn't have at least SOME medical record's?.....even old one's?(which is my case)
I absolutely prefer OP's who try to stay within the "color" of the law by requiring:
A)Medical records verifying condition
B)Physical evalutions yearly
C)Actual Doctor/Patient dialogue
Just makes me feel like I've done all I can to seperate myself from those(let's face it) who DO try to abuse the system......
Don't let my post count fool ya'.....
EZ
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There's always a simple solution to the most complex problem
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Why yes, I assumed that US OPs that require med records and a phone consult are operating legally.
If these OPs are operating illegally, do you really think they would still be open for business? I know the DEA is well aware of these places. As of right now, they can't just shut them down because it is NOT against the law AT THIS TIME for them to operate. Sure, there's a gray area in that a doctor-patient relationship is required. But nowhere does it spell out in black and white, what that relationship must be. Until it is in black and white, it's legal. 100%.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 925
Loc: usa
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I gotta side with Trampy on this one....and it's just one more example of the vague, titilating posts that have become more commonplace here...so a "guy" got 25 years...for what??? buying?, selling...Frankly, as a medical professional, I do understand the risks of buying controlled substances from IOP's....but going thru the OP system, providing records, talking with a physician, I don't think the patient bears any risk at all.....and as long as the physicians who associate themselves w/OP's 1.) review the records, 2.) interview the patient and 3.) document carefully, the laws in place allow for OP prescribing. If it weren't so, it wouldn't be so widespread. I think it's a travesty that it has to occur, but until our own doc's begin to treat us with compassion and follow existing standards of care, I don't think it's going to go away soon.
And I also don't get the point of having a Doc's prescribing privliges suspended for underprescribing??? What sense does that make... so I too would like to see some specific information regarding these mysterious "guys" who are getting crucified by the DEA....and frankly, perhaps the DEA is most sucessful in scaring pitiful patient's currently undertreated for pain by their own physicians, by posting such stories....
JMHO
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cypress434
Old Hand
Reged: 04/14/02
Posts: 422
Loc: The Deep Southern US
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Quote:
BTW anybody here remember Karen Ann Quinlan?
When I read the post you're referring to, she is exactly who I thought of. If I'm not mistaken, it was one valium and one screwdriver that put her in that years-long coma until she finally passed away.
Younger people I know seem to think it's no big deal to mix benzos with alcohol, and no matter how much I try to warn them, they always ignore it. They don't know how lucky they are that what happened to her hasn't happened to them...YET.
So glad I've never been a drinker (much less a drinking POSTER here...I'd be so embarassed to actually put someone else here down and then brag about having a buzz (and a dangerous one at that)!
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Cypress434
Character is what you do when no one is watching.
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mrniceguy
Stranger
Reged: 08/27/02
Posts: 11
Loc: down by dabeach
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I wish they served that when i was there! Its more like green eggs&ham
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 925
Loc: usa
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Re KAQ, one valium & one screwdriver?....Not sure how that's been substantiated....Believe me, I'm NOT condoning use of benzo's w/ETOH AT ALL...and I have a record of stringently warning against this combo...but it's exactly this type of exagerated accounts that sometimes cause the 20 somethings to ignore such warnings....Now, if there is some news article that reported KAQ's blood alcohol level at the time of admission & level of Benzo's, that will substantiate this, I stand corrected...but I'm inclined to think it was a more substantial qauantity of either or both...but I personally DON'T know for sure. And I'm with Trampy on the phone call being insufficient for establishing a doctor/pt relationship. A face to face visit is what the spirit of the law intends if the letter of the law appears vague, I don't think it is....and I think most doctors would agree. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable putting my license on the line with another doctor's notes regarding a physcial exam I had no part in performing or witnessing....There's a reason for a face to face consultation and an actual "laying on of hands" examination...and for those who believe it's unnecessary, that lack of understanding only empahsizes their own medical naiveté. But a phone consultation that's under 5 minutes & one or two pages of "records" CLEARLY do not equal a pt/doctor relationship and if there were some adverse reaction occurs, I'd HATE to be the doc sitting in the chair marked "defendant". Will the DEA come after patients of US OP's? I doubt it
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 332
Loc: Midwest
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Thanks for your support.  I, too, am glad alcohol holds no attraction for me. Definitely can be dangerous, especially when combined with benzos.  I don't remember how much Valium & liquor Karen Ann Quinlan had but that was what was supposed to have put her into a "permanent vegitative state" as they say in the medical biz. If memory serves, it may have been as small an amount as you say, Cypress. Wow! Scary stuff!
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"God, please help me to be the person my DOG thinks I already am."
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fishdude
Member
Reged: 12/27/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Very SW, Very hot.
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Actually, Quinlan went veggie after taking barbituates and alcohol, not benzos and alcohol. Barbs are an even worse combo with alcohol than benzos...
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I know I have a brain, the MRI proved it!
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padmakara
Member
Reged: 09/16/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Chiang Mai
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Well, I've tried both combos at low doses (1-2 pills and 1-2 drinks). Too dizzying for me, I don't really like. I know plenty of other people who have used though. I would think that what's-her-name is the exception not the rule. What happened? She suffocate and get hypoxia w/ brain damage? She was probably sensitive to one of the two drugs. Everybody's different. Not that any more than a low dose is not dangerous. I'd agree there. Low doses may be toxic as well...
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 925
Loc: usa
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I think your right....seconal comes to mind for some reason....nasty, nasty drug with happy hour....
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 332
Loc: Midwest
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Fishdude, the Quinlan coma case happened in the mid-1970's, which I am old enough to remember very well. I could still be wrong but even then barbituates were not commonly prescribed for the reason you so correctly state. Barbs therapeutic dosage is very close to their lethal dosage as compared with benzos, which have a much higher safety margin between therapeutic & toxic dosages.
That is why barbs are recommended as THE drug of choice for suicide in the book "Final Exit," a kind of scary book  that is essentially a recipe book for "self deliverance" (their euphemism for suicide) of the PAINFULLY & terminally ill.
Naturally, one can't help but surmise that many "self deliverers" wouldn't be in that position with adequate pain control.  I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Nuff said.
Anyway, I'm still pretty sure it was Valium that Ms Quinlan took. Padmakara has a good point that it could have been Quinlan's individual drug sensitivity playing into her unfortunate outcome. Regardless, the moral for all of us is that drugs & alcohol do not mix. Wishing all a pain reduced day 
I love this forum!
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"God, please help me to be the person my DOG thinks I already am."
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patient2all
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 298
Loc: usa
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Quote:
I'm still pretty sure it was Valium that Ms Quinlan took
It was quaaludes, a popular cns depressent at the time. In the valium family, most likely hers came from the huge black market in 'ludes at the time.
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patient2all
It's a sad world, getting sadder by the day....
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limperlapin
Stranger
Reged: 04/05/04
Posts: 1
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Quote:
I spoke with a DEA agent about OP's. Will not get into details, but I will say that unless you are DDing, you are not going to get into any trouble. I mean, how are we to know if the man/woman we are talking to on the phone is a real DR? Should we have them fax US their medical license? I was told that the ones to get busted would be the DR, and/or the pharmacy, if they have indeed broken any laws. Most of us here are legit. pain sufferers. I have no insurance and cannot afford to try and find a DR who will prescribe an NSAID if I beg for it, when I deal with serious pain!
I am sure the DEA read this board, and would hope they are sympathetic with our situation!
Actually, there is a way to check whether a doctor is a doctor, just like I can check whether another lawyer is a lawyer. I may be wrong, but most states have state licensing board, where you can check a name and record. I personally would not want to be dealing with a non-doctor. My butcher doesn't write my contracts, and I don't tell her how to cut my ribs.
later, gators
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wren
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/01/02
Posts: 298
Loc: up north & homesick for the di...
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Wonderful first post Limper,quite cute! Welcome and look forward to more of your humor! Have a good one! Wren'
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its all fun & games til someone puts an eye out,then its still fun ,you just can't see***
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dsack
Veteran
Reged: 01/20/02
Posts: 564
Loc: midwest
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Don't count out the "little guy" getting in trouble by the DEA. If they have something on you, they WILL use it for leverage to get you to admit to whatever they want you to admit. Whether it's the truth or not. They are after the source, but I'm sure a few "little guys" will do the trick to keep their programs funded until the "big guy" can be found. They are sneaky, and 90% unregulated.
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neonsign2003
Moderator at norcoworldwide.com
Reged: 12/26/02
Posts: 566
Loc: midwest
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THERE IS NO DOUBT THE PRESS SAID SHE TOOK VALIUM. LUDES WERE POPULAR, BUT I FOLLOWED THE STORY FROM START TO "FINISH"
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patient2all
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 298
Loc: usa
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I stand corrected.
Thanks!
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