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bhamdave
Threadhead
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 949
Loc: U.S.A.
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Here's the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3839574/
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AIDS
It's not YOUR problem (I hope that)
It's not MY problem (I know that)
But it is still OUR problem and WE know that!
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juster9999
Newbie
Reged: 12/07/03
Posts: 34
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Yet Ephedrine remains legal. Absurd, isn't it?!
http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1013586&t=Iowa+%2F+Illinois&c=24,1013586
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muccels
Stranger
Reged: 08/24/03
Posts: 22
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It just kills me when many of the so called leaders make judgements on products when there are so many other things that kill people with a far great magnitude! Like the article said cold medicine causes way more deaths a year. How about aspirin! So people have no clue.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
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Cold medicine, when taken at the prescribed dose, and NOT taken by indiividuals warned NOT to take it, ie those w/history of HPB, heart disease or those takening MAOI's don't kill MORE people than ephedra containing supplements. Just because this article says they do, doesn't mean it's true. The FDA could pull products containing psuedonephrine or phenylpropanolamine....& they do now require they be sold from BEHIND the counter, but, they didn't ban them because their saftey profile is proven....it took forever to ban ephedra...because it's a supplement, not a drug & we don't know how many people have died using ephedra containing supplements because it so often gets reported as a heart attack or stroke w/o mention of the decedant taking an ephedra product.....and ASPIRIN is the wonder drug of the 20th century!!! Aspirin taken as prescribed never killed anyone!!!
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Spectre13
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 298
Loc: ThunderHeadTippyTops
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The difference is one helps you think better, while others tend to dull your senses. This is a trend with many banned things. They'd rather you be an idjit than a smarty pants, lest you overthrow the government.
They'll ban that, but not smokes? Of course - they make money off the smokes.
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When you think it's beyond your comprehension, it probably just precedes it.
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muccels
Stranger
Reged: 08/24/03
Posts: 22
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Ive been taking ephedrine for about 7 yrs on and off. Never had any problems. Just like aspirin if you take too many you have problems or if you have and underlying problem then yeah it can effect you. If your not used to caffine and you take ephedra then yeah you trip or have side effects you have never felt. Most of those problems that come with ephedra like any other drug or medicine is that is has some kind of side effects and has warnings that come with it. If its 105 degrees out and you take it and playing sports of course your going to have a problem on top of you probably not taking enough water. If you take 10 pills of course you will have a problem. Did you know ephedrine is used for asthma patients? So if you prescribed it just could you stop all the side effects or problems? No of course not people are just to lazy to do research and find out info on meds or supplements they take. Then they start crying how it effected them when they probably didn't even read the label on it!
Of course, all of this is assuming that the body in question is healthy,
the
dosages of ephedrine involved are not excessive (recommended dosage for
average adult: 32mg per day), there are no hazardous drug interactions, and
that there are no serious allergic reactions to the drug. Failing these has
sometimes lead to more serious side effects, including an irregular
heartbeat (heart palpitations), dizziness, nausea, and in the most serious
cases, even death. These are NOT common, however. Between the years of
1993,
and 1996 there were 15 ephedrine-related deaths reported (although it is
unclear as to how many of them found ephedrine to be the major contributing
factor in the death). When these kind of serious side effects do occur, it
is often due to negligent use - overdose, improper and hazardous chemical
interactions, and the like.
Let's "put [these numbers]. . . into perspective," suggests author Larry
Hobbs and Dr. Edwin Ford. "That's about 5 deaths a year [attributed to
ephedrine]. . . Every year 400 children die in bike accidents, 400 people
die from ibuprofen overdose, 500 people die from contaminated hamburgers,
etc, etc etc . . . and 400,000 people die from smoking-related causes. This
means that more people die every year from eating hamburgers than have died
in the last 100 years from taking ephedrine." While I doubt that's any
consolation to the families who've lost loved ones in ephedrine related
cases, it IS important for the rest of us in weighing the benefits with the
risks. Mr. Hobbs and Dr. Ford do go on to state that "there are an
estimated
55 million people who are obese in the US, with 300,000 of them dying every
year from obesity-related causes. If ephedrine helps even a tiny fraction
of
the obese population to lose weight it is likely to save hundreds or
thousands of lives every year."4
Hobbs, Larry & Ford, Edwin H. Ephedrine & Caffeine: the Ideal Diet
Pill?,
Pragmatic Press, 1996, 14
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chantal
Board Addict
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 305
Loc: US
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Don't forget the Tylenol either, that deadly Acetaminophen that is in almost every med in huge, deadly amounts. Why don't they ban that stuff?!
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
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Anectdotal "evidence" of product saftey meets no industry or scientific standards .... just because YOU took ephedra w/o a problem, doesn't mean that the 5,000,000 others who took it didn't. Considering it's sold as a supplement, therefore unregulated by the FDA, and w/o the assessment that one would have if one saw a physician, and so any underlying problem that would be a contra-indication to taking ephedra is missed....and hence, Auntie Em had a stroke, it was 48 hours into her 3rd dose of an ephedra based supplement that no one knew she was taking, as she lives alone, & ordered it over the internet.
Aspirin, like ANY other medication is meant to be taken at the prescribed dose & by individuals that meet the criteria required are taking it.
ALL medications are good at the correct dose...they don't all get "better" or provide greater benefit at larger doses....
This is a given in pharmacological setting...why are we even discussing taking too much?
And tylenol is perfectly safe at the prescribed doses...if you're exceeding the dosage regularly on all medications, you may need to seek other options...there is generic oxycodone 10mg/325 APAP....which is an excellent alternative to those needing higher doses of oxycodone, with a lower APAP componenet....it is time to exert your rights to adequate pain management, get it where you can find it & request the pain relief you need to live an active life... It's worth every penny to me that I spend in plane flights to be able to work 50 hours a week, 25 hours post operatively....& be pain free 95% of the time...
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redhill
Banned. Flames, offending others
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 278
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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It just doesn't make sense to me that anything is banned, period.
Yes it can be dangerous to some, not all. People have been endowed with a brain, so they can make intelligent decisions.
I will probably never take ephedra, but government interfering and banning yet another product they don't like is simplistic, and won't work, plus it just reeks of narrow-mindedness.
Let the government do our thinking and make our decisions for us. Yeah, good idea, because we all know they base all their decisions on common sense and an overwhelming desire to look out for our best interest.
sarcasm mode: off
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Seano
Journeyman
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Shelbyville
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The ephedrine and caffeine based product I have been taking for almost 2 months now has me down to 235 pounds from 255 or so. And I have about a 3 months supply left. Like any sane person, I followed the directions on the package, and took exactly the dose indicated...no more. Believe me, the indicated dose is enough ! When this type of product moves into the realm of OPs, as it probably will, if I still need it, I'll happily order some more. As with any other medicine that Big Money wants to ban or quintuple the price of.
What a sad comment on the society we live in...the total lack of personal responsibility...it is that the government has to ban something like this because a tiny percentage of a minority abuses it and then suffers the consequences. Should we all just walk around with football helmets and kneepads and stuff on whenever we step into the street ? Should we sign a waiver every time we pop a gosh durn ASPIRIN for a headache ? Are we all to be five years old indefinitely, asking Mommy if it's okay to go outside and play today ? I'm not suggesting that stupidity, ignorance, or willful defiance of medical advice should be a CRIME or anything, but why should the responsible pay for the idiocies of the irresponsible ? Of course, this notion extends far and wide, and I'm in no mood to get into a debate on politics, so...
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muccels
Stranger
Reged: 08/24/03
Posts: 22
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You hit it right on the head! Its the abusers that cause any problem! Taking too many or not reading the warnings or directions. Most of the problems came with people taking too much of it or not seeing their doctor before taking it. Most all the thermogenics sold have a warning an also contact your doctor before taking. Yeah grandma may have a heartattack but usually there is a problem prior to that. She could have CHF or one of the other many problems that can be associated with a heartattack. So again its the individuals responibility to either get informed or take risks that are their fault with no fault to others.
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buey
Old Hand
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 453
Loc: USA
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Personally, I don't think that ephedra should have been banned but...
When I saw my doc last year I specifically asked him about it. I was exercising daily, watching what I ate, lost 10 lbs, but was frustrated with the inability to lose more weight. His comment on ephedra was that "the FDA should ban that garbage. It's dangerous."
Well being the caffeine addict (8 cups a day) that I am, reading the warning labels on the packages and then hearing that from him, I passed on it. However, that was MY choice. It should be MY choice. Not the US Govt's choice.
However, apparently many health professionals feel the same way that my own doctor feels about it. When enough health professionals harp on something long enough, then the FDA will do something, like banning a supplement.
In some cases, banning a supplement is political and a good profit maker for the pharmacuetical companies. Years ago when I worked for a pharmacy chain we were instructed to pull another popular supplement off the shelves because it was also banned. The supplement was called L-Tryptophan and was used safely for decades to induce sleep, reduce pain sensitivity, reduce PMS symptoms, reduction of anxiety and stress and worked wonders for people with depression. The FDA claimed that the supplement could cause a deadly, rare flu like condition known as Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome / EMS. Meanwhile, Prozac had just come on the market. Both L-Tryptophan and Prozac effect serotonin levels in the body. The thing is L-Tryptophan actually produces serotonin which was great for people who had low levels in their bodies to begin with. Prozac and the others like it, only enhance the uptake of the serotonin already present in the body. So people who were doing very well on the cheap dietary supplement for pain, depression, sleep problems, and anxiety were now forced to find an alternative. Yup, costly the prescription drugs like Prozac for depression, prescription sleeping pills, Valium, prescription and OTC pain meds that cost them a lot more and posed a relatively huge increase in side effects. But hey, then pharm. companies made more money this way. Right?
Studies have since been done since the ban in 1989. A few yrs back both the CDC and the Mayo clinic have since traced the deadly outbreak of EMS to contaminants found in a lab in Japan that got into a batch of L-Tryp. THAT'S what caused the problem and yet nobody on this country can get the supplement to this day, because it's still banned. The FDA has no reason to allow it back on the market. That would hurt the pharmacuetical industry. Let the people go see the doc for their Prozac, their Valium, their Tylenol 3's. Don't allow them access to a cheap, safe amino acid.
So guess what will happen with ephedra? It will show up in all kinds of prescription weight loss formulas and you will have to see a doctor to get what you could have just walked into a pharmacy and bought them right off the shelf months before.
It's a shame that the government can't stick their noses out of people's medicine cabinets. Personally, I am not a Rush Limbaugh fan at all, but to investigate this man and perhaps prosecute him for having an addiction? Gimme a break! Ban epehdra because a handful of people who most likely had no business taking it or abused it died? What's next? We are slowly but surely losing our liberties and freedom to choose in this country. If Bush gets voted back in office in the next election, I shudder to think how many more liberties will be lost.
'kay off my soap box, but there's some serious problems with the way this country is being run and I sure hope that all the freedom loving people here on this board will think long and hard before casting their votes this year. If you want more of the same, then vote for Bush/Ashcroft.
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Spectre13
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 298
Loc: ThunderHeadTippyTops
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My sister used to take it until the ban. I remember them debating it on Larry King. Of course, when the bad batch was brought up, the FDA lady had nothing to say. When pressed for an answer why turkeys were still spiked with it, she said it was to boost the nutritional value of the turkey. Of course, the only reason it's in turkeys is so people will associate tranquility with nationalist and/or pagan holidays, thereby encouraging the recelebration of said holidays (IMO).
Regardless, is anyone actively pressing the reintroduction of L-Tryptophan back into the market?
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When you think it's beyond your comprehension, it probably just precedes it.
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evlgh
Stranger
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 10
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The Bottom Line If someone dies and they are on a diet be sure the blame Ephedra and Ephedrine based products as quick as you can! [extreme sarcasm]
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You have all seen the stories of people who fall over and die after taking "a dose" of a dieting supplement that contains ephedra or ephedrine. The media is so quick to jump on the bandwagon that they dont take the time to properly research the evidence; sadly, this goes double for the medical community. I have used a variety of weight loss products that contain a small amount of these two supplements as well as [in the past] products that contained a tremendous amount of it.
As you can tell, I am still here to talk abouit it. It seems that every time someone dies while they are exercising, in a team practice or doing anything sport related, the first thing that is asked is "Was he using ephedrine?" I am not saying that this stuff is not harmless however I think if more people learned to read the label on the bottle, followed the directions and consulted a physician they might be alive today.
Since not everyone is familiar with what these two products are, Ill give some basic information as well as some facts and product examples. If you are starting a diet, please consult a physical, get a complete physical and ask for suggestions. The bottom line is that you are the one who is making the decisions about what you are eating, how much you are exercising and what supplements, if any, you will be taking.
Could Millions of Chinese People Be Wrong?
I have a very interesting question for all those that have pointed the finger at both ephedra and ephedrine as major roles in the death of athletes. If this is true then how did the Chinese manage to use this for thousands of years without everyone falling over? Because they arent a country of indulgence, vanity and compulsion. In America everyone wants to do it faster, longer, harder and with the smallest amount of effort which is why more and more people are turning towards weight loss supplements. Taking a weight loss supplement is not going to make you lose weight diet, exercise and time are the only three things that will get you to your goal.
Ephedra and ephedrine based products are available over the counter in most states and I have yet to see one that has been approved by the FDA [Food & Drug Administration]. Moreover, I have yet to see one of these products claims of dramatic weight loss backed up with any type of credible statistics. But Freak, you said you took these! Yes, I have in the past, currently do use them and will continue to. Why? Because I can read the label, dont have any major preexisting health conditions that could be impacted by the use of these products and I know when enough is enough. All that aside, the names of products change on almost a monthly level to avoid the crack downs by the FDA so by time I am done writing this review, chances are at least one of the products mentioned will be yanked off the shelves.
The Bottom Line
Instead of the gun ho, slap happy antics of members of the FDA constantly forcing manufacturers to yank products off their shelves why not work together to promote these products in a positive light with adequate warnings?! Ive yet to see a bottle of any product containing ephedra or ephedrine [or any by product of the two] come without strict warnings about using it. I have successfully used many products containing both compounds and have never felt that my life was in danger or that it was unsafe for adult use. Its when people abuse a product that it takes on a bad name and gets a bum rap. Its extremely easy to blame a supplement for a death than to take all the other factors into consideration -- pre-existing conditions, number of doses taken, general health of the person, family history etc. Anything taken in excess can be dangerous to your health. I dont see the FDA cracking down or banning cigarettes or alcohol and they are available everywhere. Walk in to any super market, grocery store or 7-11 and its there for you to purchase. Sure you might need to be 18 or 21 to buy it -- but there isnt a limit. When was the last time you saw a store keeper or clerk refusing to sell someone of legal age as much liquor as they wanted?
Ephedra and ephedrine were available for years and were used by millions of people before it became the "big thing" Sadly, those that have used it for the correct applications are being forced to go underground to purchase it or being made to feel like they are a criminal when they use it. I hope that this has helped to bring you a little bit of information about this supplement witch hunt that is going on in America.
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evlgh
Stranger
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 10
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Quote:
The FDA could pull products containing psuedonephrine or phenylpropanolamine....& they do now require they be sold from BEHIND the counter, ...
Not really, they continue to be sold OVER the counter ...
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