cw91774
Newbie
Reged: 07/25/03
Posts: 25
Loc: South
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my friend called me yesterday in a panic. she had run ont of her pain meds and was desperate. she called in a fake to a pharmacy and she said when she went to the pharmacy, the pharmacist said they called the docotr and the matter was being investigated by "the doctor's office manager" and the prescription could not yet be filled.
this may be the wrong place for this kind of question, so my post might be moved. BUT, she is really freaked out. i've tried to do some research for her, but to no avail.
does anyone know what is going to happen to her with this situation? has anyone else been so stupid to have done this before and what were the repercutions?
i wish i had some advice for her, but i don't. do any of you?
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2muchpain
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 274
Loc: USA
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Ooops! It's called Prescripton Fraud and it's a felony. She should talk with a lawyer as soon as possible, ideally before she is charged. There is a very small chance that she will not be charged, depending on how busy LE is in your area. Don't count on it, though. They could charge her months later when she has already forgotten about it. There is no statute of limitations on a felony.
She should NOT discuss the matter with ANYONE but her attorney. I don't mean to be cruel, but that was really a stupid thing to do. She had so many other options. Hope this is her wakeup call.
Peace,
2much
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voyager
Board Addict
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 384
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Yes, unfortunately she could be in some REAL TROUBLE. If I were you, I would suggest that she consider admitting herself to Rehab so that if the sh#t hits the fan than she can at least tell the judge that she recognized that she had a real problem and did something about it.
NOT a good move on her part.
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johnjacobs
Member
Reged: 05/04/02
Posts: 179
Loc: SE USA
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Do NOT worry on the pharmacy side!!!! It is nothing unless the pharmacist plays along with it and you walk out of the door with the prescription. TRUST ME. as far as on the doctors office side, you can make excuses, and may be able to keep seeing that doc. But until you PHYSICALLY walk out that pharmacy door with a forged script IN HAND, there can be no caharge filed. only BS threats and cop talk. I know this from exp., I have been, until recently, a major drug chain store manager. We would set up these stings all the time, but the police always told us the customer had to have the prescription in hand when physically crossing that door threshold....
its OK!!! dont worry
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Today is the Tommorrow you worried about Yesterday & Tommorrow is the day your DREADING Today! Good Luck to us all!
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Not to be argumentative here, but there are statute of limitations on Felonies. It's only capital crimes that may be punished by the death penalty (like murder) that don't have a statute of limitations. That's the good news. The bad news is that more than likely, the Pharmacy will report it to LE (in accordance with procedure if it's a chain store) or the Dr's office will report it. Since this case is pretty easy to solve, they will probably do the investigation and either apprehend her or issue a warrant. Fact of the matter is, even if the Doctor or pharmacy don't press charges, the State Attorney will more than likely pick-up the charges and pursue them because 1: It's a felony and 2: It's drug related. Just my opinion from a Law Enforcement point of view, Good luck and I would definitely follow the advice above, have them retain an attorney and follow his advice and if necessary, ask for a deal from the judge in exchange for rehab or something.
Edited by Dasani (12/11/03 06:14 AM)
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Jordan530
WonderWoman
Reged: 11/20/02
Posts: 597
Loc: The Left Coast of Florida
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It is definitely a felony! I had a friend years ago who did almost the same thing only she added a refill to a legit script, back in the days where the Dr would leave the refill line blank if they weren't giving you any refills. She went to the pharmacy, got the first script, then when she went to refill it, the pharmacist for some reason said that he needed to call the Dr to just double check on the refill (it was a schedule 3 drug, I believe) Anyway, of course the Dr's office said that they had not authorized any refills and she was immediately picked up by 2 US Marshalls. She spent a day in jail until she could get bailed out and got 3 years probation. She was told she could have spent 12 years in jail. This all happened years ago before they started coming down hard on drug abuse too.
I wish her luck!
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'A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand'
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2muchpain
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 274
Loc: USA
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I knew as soon as I made that statement, someone was going to call me on it. In my state, there is no statute of limitations. In your state, there is. I am talking about being charged under a state code. This is all the more reason for the 'friend' to consult an attorney.
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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You're right, she may be charged under state law, but then again, if pursued by or turned over to a drug task force or Federal agency for investigation, she will be charged under United States Code (USC) Title 18, which carries equally severe penalties and a five year S.O.L. Actually, if I knew what state she was in I could tell her the s.o.l. and the maximum penalty under state and federal law, but I guess it's better to just look at the bright side of things and hope she learned a very good lesson from this, never does it again, and pray that LE never gets involved.
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lttlbit
Member
Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 194
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I would get a lawyer no matter what, and heck maybe go to my doctor and tell him what I did and tell him I had a problem even if I didn't that way you have documentation that you have discussed the matter at hand and you are concerned about it. I had a friend years ago do the same thing and when she got the script she opened it up and ther were m&m's in the bottle and about 5 cops surrounding her by her car, I can't remember what happend but she did get charged I am not sure if it was a felony or not. Just make sure she does not go into the store and get it, the pharmacy might call her and say it is ready and try to trick her if you know what I mean. I personally do not know how in the world someone could do that, just because I would be so Best if kept off the board scared. I truely hope that she learns from this experience and that she does not get charged, with it being the holidays, the justice system sucks when it wants to, my fiance' was cheating on me and pressed charges on me for writing checks to the grocery store for our family on his checking account and if I had not gotten a good lawyer I would have been charged with a 12 count felony, and we were together 11 years, what a jerk, anyway I won't get started, I wish her the best of luck.
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lttlbit
Member
Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 194
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CORRECTION TO MY POST I CANNOT TYPE TODAY
"just because I would be so Best if kept off the board scared" I meant to say because I would be so scared. I am not sure why I typed in best if kept off board. Sorry
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Yes, the justice system does suck...sometimes! In this case I would not talk to the Doctor at all, but I would get an attorney and follow his instructions. That's what they get paid for. My advice, from a former L.E.O. ADMIT NOTHING, DENY EVERYTHING,DEMAND PROOF!! Let the attorney take charge once this person gets arrested or indicted, whichever comes first.
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booker
Board Addict
Reged: 08/15/03
Posts: 336
Loc: The Moon
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In our state a pharmacist has to have a script in hand to fill for pain meds. They can't do a phone call or even a fax from the doctor.
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"would you like to swing on a star, carry moonbeams home in a jar, and be better off than you are, or would you rather be a ....."
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cw91774
Newbie
Reged: 07/25/03
Posts: 25
Loc: South
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the state is georgia
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Fortunately, Georgia Law Code 11-5-109 refers to this crime as Fraud or Forgery, versus Perscription Fraud. That equals a minimum sentence of 1 year (state) with a maximum of 5 yearsconfinement (state or fed) and no more than 10,000 dollar fine. The bad side is that there are over 30 Federal laws that deal SPECIFICALLY with Prescription Fraud and therefore would more likely be charged under those specific federal charges. Hopefully, nothing will come of this. It doesn't matter in Georgia if she called it in, or wrote it herself, it's still a felony. The only caviat to this is that if it had been in writing and given to a pharmacy, there would be an additional charge for UTTERING A FORGED OR FRAUDULENT INSTRUMENT, also a felony. So you see, it's really not that bad after all. Good luck.
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1178
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I dunno if this is a possible defense...but how can they actually prove she made that phone call? Isn't it possible that someone else called in the prescription as a practical joke? I know it sounds ridiculous, but really, how can they prove she did that? If they look at her phone bill, ok, they will find she called the pharmacy. She could've called the pharmacy to ask if they sold rectal thermometers, that doesn't prove anything. Unless the pharmacist actually recorded the call, what proof is there? She went to the pharmacy, ok, but she could've been picking up any prescription, no? No one has a recording of anything she said, she just happened to be at the pharmacy.
But I'm not a lawyer- I have no idea if that would work, maybe something to ask the lawyer, though? Maybe Trampy or someone will know (hehehe, and I'm not implying you're an expert on prescription fraud Trampy, I'm just saying you know a lot about the law)? I would also ask the lawyer if checking into rehab would work.
But if none of that works...she'll have no problem getting painkillers in Mexico......
-yawkaw
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valle
Stranger
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 24
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Hello CW,
I have a slighly similar situation to share with you that may or may not be of some help. Others have already offered some great advice.
I have a girlfriend who was doing this for quite some time, i would say a year or more (at least thats the time frame i was aware of). She would go city to city calling in her rx under a psuedo name stating no insurance. When she felt the rx would be ready for pick up she would call and ask if it was ready and then go get it. If she felt sketchy about it in anyway she just wouldnt go. Keep in mind she was doing this at least several times a week. She was doing it enough to keep up her habit, and then make money by supplying others an arm and a leg. (I do hope this is okay to be talking about on the board!), anyways she finally did it caught and it was because she had used this same pharmacy several times. When she went in and paid for the rx, had them in hand, then she handcuffed. They were right there waiting for her. So her way of getting out of this was to claim she was an addict and didnt know what else to do. Long story short, she spent one night in jail, went to rehab (which by doing that cut her felony to a misdemeanor) and is on like 3-5 years of probation. She still has problems to this day. Failed out of day rehab many times, relasping once going home ect.....but now is doing quite well. She just couldnt get off the stuff, she goes every morning still to pick up her shot of methadone so she can make it through the day.
Its such a sad story and I feel so bad for her, it took a long time for her to share this story with me, but now im sharing it with you guys in hopes someone out there doesnt make the same mistake.
CW for your friend If I was in her shoes I would do two things, look up an attorney in the phone book that does free consultations book an emergerncy visit and explain the situation to find out what her rights are. And if something does happen before she gets to that lawyer and the cops get her first It seems to me the best thing to say is Im an addict. I know that doesnt sound very good and im only talking about whats been told to me, and whether its a 100% truthful who really knows, second hand info you know, it somehow always gets turned around.
I feel for your friend and wish he/she the best of luck, i know right now im sure she doesnt want to hear this, but everything happens for a reason, and everything does work out in the long run.
I will be thinking of you both and sending good thoughts your way.
Nic
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 316
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
I knew as soon as I made that statement, someone was going to call me on it. In my state, there is no statute of limitations. In your state, there is. I am talking about being charged under a state code. This is all the more reason for the 'friend' to consult an attorney.
2Much, you are too much!! I always take folks at face value. I had never doubted that the original poster really had a friend who tried to fake a script. Actually, I didn't even get what she was saying at first because I have heard of forging a phone script but the term "calling in a fake" was foreign to me. Thanks for snapping me out of my trusting daze. I hasten to add that it's possible that it was a friend but I'm sure we'll never know for sure.
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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Julz
Member
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 195
Loc: NJ Shore
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Quote:
I dunno if this is a possible defense...but how can they actually prove she made that phone call? Isn't it possible that someone else called in the prescription as a practical joke? I know it sounds ridiculous, but really, how can they prove she did that? If they look at her phone bill, ok, they will find she called the pharmacy. She could've called the pharmacy to ask if they sold rectal thermometers, that doesn't prove anything. Unless the pharmacist actually recorded the call, what proof is there? She went to the pharmacy, ok, but she could've been picking up any prescription, no? No one has a recording of anything she said, she just happened to be at the pharmacy.
Good point yawkaw- I agree- UNLESS she has done this on one or more other occasions, then it really doesn't matter. I DO know that some pharmacies even tape record phone calls- as for her actually going to the Pharmacy- well, she is most likely on video there, asking for the Rx! I think they might just keep an eye on her if this was the one & only time; after all, she never was in possession. I just have a feeling that this was not the only time, though.
Just my 2 cents
Julz
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Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 316
Loc: Midwest
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By golly you ARE a clever bunch of folks on this board! I'd be too busy pooping my pants  to even think of that!!!
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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singlesu
Member
Reged: 06/07/03
Posts: 134
Loc: kentucky
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Valle, sounds like a very, very similar situation that I heard about with one of my neighbors. He was doing this in 3 states, and it finally caught up with him.
He got 2 years prison time and 9 months mandatory rehab after the prison time. He still hasn't changed, is still addicted and it makes me very nervous knowing that he lives only a few blocks from me in this rural area.
Whenever I leave my home or have to go out of town now, I am forced to "hide" all of my medications or take them all with me. This is a small town, and everybody knows everybody's business, and this guy is really giving me the creeps because I've been told he will do anything to get his drugs.
And one more thing, it is people who try to pull scams such as these, that have made it really hard for legitimate pain sufferer's to get the proper medication and are basically put under a microscope before we can get the help that we really need.
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"I know I'm crazy cause I've got papers to prove it"
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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One thing that everyone must remember in this and all cases. "ANYTHING IS ARRESTABLE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY CONVICTABLE" That means that you can be arrested for just about anything, even if you didn't do it or if the police have very little probable cause, however, it is the responsibility of the state prosecutor to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are guilty of what you've been accused of. Most cases end in a plea bargain(about 85% nationwide)because defendants fear they will lose their case and go to prison, but the truth of the matter is, only about 25% of cases that actually go to trial, end in a conviction. In civil cases, the prosecutor has to prove guilt by reasonable standards (that means 1/2 or more of the jury feels the def. is guilty) but in criminal cases, he prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt(that's 100% of the jury). That is a tough nut to crack and a difficult thing for the prosecution to do. So, in this case, an arrest will not necessarily mean a conviction, especially if it was only a phone call to the pharmacy. And as YAWKAW said, how do they prove it was her on the phone. That's why I said earlier in another post "ADMIT NOTHING, DENY EVERYTHING, DEMAND PROOF" Because an ADMISSION OF GUILT leaves very little question in the jury's mind whether that person is guilty or not.
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Miss_EttiKit
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Texas
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2 words - caller id.
They have it down here and I know they use it - my daughter worked in a pharmacy - that's how they know where it was called in from. I hope she wasn't stupid enough to use her own home phone. (Sorry about the stupid, but that's exactly what it is!)
Don't want to scare you, but when I was in grad school, one of my classes took a "field trip" to the women's prison. We sat in on a supposed "therapy" session with over 80 women who were there because of prescription fraud. Some of their stories were downright pitiful and it proved to me the old saying that "rich women go to rehab, poor women go to jail."
I hope your friend gets the help she needs. It's a hard lesson to learn and I hope she manages to stay out of serious trouble.
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"Ignorance in action is terrifying to behold!"
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DAdrian
Newbie
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 36
Loc: California
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You are exactly right. It's only common sense that a pharmacy would record all calls for refills, just to CYA that they had it right. There would also be a corresponding call from her phone at the same time. Then there's the small matter of voice analysis......I wasn't in LE but I was a claims adjuster who dealt with fraud and there are many ways to prove it. If this is REALLY the first time, and if she is truly remorseful, if she has a relationship with the doctor, she may be able to go talk to him, admit what she did, sincerely apologize and ask for help. More than likely the MD will have hurt feelings that she abused his trust, but if he's got a heart he may not press charges unless they're mandatory. I'd think that's her best chance. In California we have drug courts ( I don't know if they're in all counties) and a fairly new law that calls for rehabilitation before imprisonment. I'll pray that all goes right for her.
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Devon :-)
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1178
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Pharmacies record the call if you leave a message. If you speak to one of the techs or the pharmacist and the doctor calls in a refill, I'm not so sure that is recorded.
I worked at a big chain pharmacy several years ago, when someone calls in a refill, you look up the patients name on the computer, that script is opened, then you enter in the number of refills and the name of the person you spoke to. If it was the doctor, you put MD. It is completely different than when a new script is called in and you have to let the pharmacist take the call. I don't remember ever being told the call was recorded, but I guess that is a possibility...maybe it is a state-by-state thing? I really don't know- would be nice if someone could verify this.
Caller ID- not sure that is a big deal. A doctor can call in a script from anywhere, it doesn't have to be from his office. What if you call his answering service late at night and he calls from the nearest payphone or his cell phone?
My gut feeling is this "friend" has done this before and now she got caught. I have a hard time believing anyone would call in the script from their home phone, even if it was their first time.
But let's assume the worst case scenario: She called in the refill from her home phone and the call was recorded. It could still have been a practical joke. It could also have been someone who had access to her phone that wanted the drugs for themselves, but didn't want to take the risk themself, so they called in the refill for her. But then that leads to why she was at the pharmacy...
Why do the cameras show she was at the pharmacy? She went in there to ask the pharmacist a question, or to ask which aisle one of the OTC products was. As best I know, that is NOT recorded. There are no microphones I could see recording what every customer at the pharmacy counter says...and what would be the purpose of that? To catch the small number of people picking up fake prescriptions? Come on...that's an unnecessary and unrealistic situation. The pharmacy I worked at had screens from all the cameras up by the management offices in the same room we picked up the paychecks. I didn't see anything to indicate it was possible to listen to what was going on down there. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I saw nothing like that, nor does it make sense to me it would exist.
As far as voice analysis goes...I don't know they would go that far. I'm sure any results are up to interpretation and a good lawyer might be able to defend that, or say the lab was bribed...who knows.
But again, I'm not a lawyer, so I admit I don't know- this is all just my speculation. I wouldn't take any of what's been said as legal advice. I would contact a lawyer ASAP and explain the situation. Maybe he can tell you if any of what we've said is true, or a possible defense, or if you rehab is the best way.
Good luck.
-yawkaw
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booker
Board Addict
Reged: 08/15/03
Posts: 336
Loc: The Moon
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I'm interested in knowing if the pharmacy or doctor's office has done anything yet. The best advice that has been given over and over is to get an attorney, most do free consults and it can be a "what if". I wonder, Is this her regular doctor that she has received a script for this med before? Who knows, he might even approve it! There are so many different variables to this situation that only an attorney in Georgia can be clear about. Let us all know what happens as you seem to have people here who are interested enough to post.
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"would you like to swing on a star, carry moonbeams home in a jar, and be better off than you are, or would you rather be a ....."
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1178
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I also just thought of this:
If they record doctors and their offices calling in for refills, then they would have to record every call that comes to the pharmacy.
Let's say the doctor just calls the pharmacy (not all pharmacies have a press 1 if you're a doctor's office type thing- I'm not sure that automatically switches on something to be recorded). He speaks to a tech, and the tech enters the refills into the computer.
There is no way for the phone to know that it is supposed to record this. So if they were recording it, that would mean every phone conversation is recorded, and to the best of my knowledge that is illegal. Maybe someone can clarify the circumstances under which it is legal to record a phone conversation without telling the other party. Many mom-n-pop pharmacies don't have a "press 1 if you're a doctor" option, and even if they did, I'm not sure that does anything other than forward the call to the first available line.
There is nothing to "get right." It is a very simple phone conversation when a doctor calls in a refill.
Of course, if this friend left a message on the pharmacies answering machine approving the refill, that is a different story.
-yawkaw
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Yawkaw,
You make a good point, once again, however, Voice Analysis results are not admissable in court, just as results to Polygraphs or Truth Verification Tests are not admissable. But, and this is a BIG BUT (trust me, I've seen a few big butts in my life, hehehe) the testimony of a credible EXPERT WITNESS that conducted the Voice Analysis or Polygraph , may be admissable instead of the actual results. The problem is getting the judge to accept the testimony of the witness, and even then, the testimony is usually not as potent or damaging as the actual test results themselves. On the contrary, DNA evidence is admissable in every court proceeding, so long as it is necessary to prove a crime actually occured by a particular defendant. I only bring up DNA, as I figure someone is sure to mention it somewhere in the near future, as it relates to this case. FUTURE POST "Well, what if they take DNA samples from all the phones in Georgia and determine that this girl actually used the phone at or around the same time this script was called in to the pharmacy in question?" I know that's a little extreme, but this has gone a little too far, even for speculation. Don't get me wrong though, this is a lot of fun for me to discuss as I am fairly knowledgable in Criminal Law, too bad it's to the detriment of another person. As mentioned here before, there are so many variables, but unfortunately, I don't think we will hear the exciting conclusion to this one, unless it ends up in the news, like all the other mistakes people have made with regards to Narcotics. But I'm having a blast playing the devil's advocate on this one. Keep it the good work boys and girls.
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Dasani
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 286
Loc: FL
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Yawkaw,
To answer your question. It is illegal to record a conversation in 38 states in the US without the other parties consent and knowledge. That usually applies to people with tape recording devices in hand or held up to or connected to their personal phones. However, FCC rules state that to legaly record a conversation via the use of an automated system built in to the phone system, the line must have an audible "beep" or "tone" notifying the caller at least every 30 seconds. This applies even though the recording that proceeds the call says something to the effect of "This call may be monitored for quality assurance"
So, if a phone line in the US (FCC Jurusdiction) is recorded, it must have a beep or tone. If it doesn't, not only is the owner/operator in violation against FCC policy, but he/she is also breaking the law. Not to mention the fact that the recording would not be admissable in court.
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sheenafur
Enthusiast
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 225
Loc: California
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Gotta jump in. First of all, who cares if it's a friend or a "friend" or a cousin or the actual poster? I would doubt that if the poster was the person with the problem, they would admit it. The poster is asking for help, and has gotten plenty of replies, so let's give 'em a break as far as who is who. It is curious, though, that the poster hasn't added anything to the thread.
I'm with Yawkaw, if the order was made via telephone, I'd think the best thing to do would be to deny everything and blame it on a practical joker or a no-good acquaintance. If this happened last night, and nothing has happened yet, not even a call from the doctor, I'd start feeling better.
I don't know--it's an incredibly stupid thing to do, and honestly, the person probably deserves what they get. Harsh, yes, but that's just my opinion. If the meds were never picked up, I don't see a dire problem. Of course, I don't have any knowledge whatsoever about the laws.
So why did I even post? I don't know!
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Go easy, step lightly, stay free--J. Strummer
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moonbeam
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 173
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My question is how can one claim "practical joke" when they actually went into the pharmacy to pick it up? I live in Georgia and it really depends on where you live as to how agressively they will pursue it. If you live in Atlanta where there is a high crime rate, the LE may not have time for something that they may consider a small fish. However, if you live in a small town, most LE have nothing better to do and would probably pursue it just to have something to report in their local, weekly newspaper. Believe me, in this state, you're friend had probably better hope that she lives in a heavily populated city.
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