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kimbell1
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 274
Loc: Route 666, Painville, Texas 6...
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I have considered back surgury to be the last resort with back patients in chronic pain.
I have tried a lot of the convential treatments and some of the holistic ones like accupunture and a chiropractor.
None have helped with the exception of ever increasing dosages of pain killers.
While I do not consider this a proble as long as I have access to pain killers and am willing to accept being dependent on them for the rest of my life (I am 48), it is increasingly difficult to find doctors willing to write pain meds.
It would be nice to be rich enough to us OP's but I can't afford it and they are a grey area.
I have heard more stories that back surgury screwed up someone and made them MORE dependant on pain meds. I have also heard a few success stories. But these are in the minority.
AT one time, back surgury would have been cheap under my insurance. Now, like many who do have health insurance, it is carp. The cost of the surgury and follow up would be very expensive for me.
So I wanted people who have actually had surgury for lower, herniated disks who have undergone surgury to reply as whether it worked, did nothing, how long it lasted, the cost, are they still taking pain meds, etc.
I would only consider surgury at this time if I could find no doctors willing to give out the needed pain meds in my area.
But I like to explre my options.
I am so tired of the DEA and the government and doctors themselves withholding needed medications that I am very seriously moving to another country or at least a city next to Mexico or Cananda if I do stay in the United States.
I am fortuante that I can move because of no family and I get pensions that go with me . In therory, even my health insurance should be accepted internationally. But this issue is not clear.
I have read that some Asian countries are very liberal with the pain meds assuming you have the money. I think that Latin America would also not care in general.
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Paranoia is just hightened awareness.
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mainship35
Stranger
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 9
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My back pain started when I was around 18 and continued getting worse until 1996 when I no longer could take it anymore. The doctor told me that my disk at L5-S1 was mostly gone with bone hitting bone and the disk above it, L4-L5 was bad as well. So at that point I could no longer take it and went for a Spinal Fusion from L4-L5 to L5-S1. After my surgery it seemed like it was getting better, but after a year, the pain started getting worse. I went back to him several times, but he couldn't see anything wrong, so I went to another doctor, this time a neurosurgeon. He did the standard tests, MRI, Cat Scan, Milogram, and he really did not see anything bad enough for surgery. So he recommened me to a pain clinic which started at Physical Therapy to epidurals and Nerve burnings and lastly with no relief from those he put me on the Duragesic Patch. I was on that for 2-1/2 years till the pain got so bad and started running down my leg that he redid the tests and found out the disk L3-L4 had exploded and recommended surgery right away or I might become paralyzed. So in 2001 he removed some of the Titanium hardware and replaced it to include the new problem. To bring you up to date, since then I have tried Physical Therapy, walking,etc, and I just can't do anything at all without some sort of pain pills. I am currently taking Hydro 10/325, but now I have noticed that my left leg is becoming numb. I go to see a doctor on 11-1 to find out if another disk is going bad.What I now do not know is if I would have tried to put up with the pain before my first surgery, would I have needed it at all. I can't recommend surgery to anyone. I can only say that use it as a last resort. Only when you cannot go on any longer. That is also what each doctor told me as well. Try all the avenues first. Physical Therapy, epidurals, nerve burnings, and whatever else is new that I am unaware of.
Take care and I wish you luck
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
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I too have had spinal fusion surgeries...both an anterior spinal fusion at L5S1 and then I had to have a posterior fusion at the same level with pedicle screws to hold the bone together. I've also had about 7 other surgeries to have a spinal cord stimulator put in, revised and batteries replaced, but that's a whole other story! THe problem with surgery is, depending on your problem, it may not relieve the pain but you still have to have it to avoid paralysis or loss of bladder control. That's the situation I was in, I actually lost feeling and control over my left foot, and due to the nerve root damage becuase I waited too long to have surgery, my left calf muscle is about 1 1/2 inches smaller in circumference than my right calf. If I hadn't had the surgery, my doc tells me I would definaltely be in a wheelchair today and at least my left leg would be 100% paralyzed. But, because they waited so long to do the surgery, I had permanent nerve damage and hence I'm stil on 80 mgs OC twice a day and take percocet 10/325 for break through pain. So, you don't mention exactly what is the root cause of your pain, have you had an MRI and a an EMG? if your disc has herniated and it's pressing on the nerve root, you may not have a choice in the matter. You may have to have surgery to avoid more serious physical problems, and it may or may not help with the pain at all. For me the surgery did nothing to help with the pain, but physically, I can walk and as long as I'm treated adequately for the pain, I can live a pretty normal life, i.e. clean house, garden, work full time, etc. I suggest you get the necessary diagnostic tests first to find out exactly what is causing the pain then talk to a good orthopaedic or neurosurgeon about your options. Just don't expect any back surgery to render you pain free, I don't know that I've EVER heard of that happening.
Edited by IMSUSCOT1 (10/25/04 05:58 PM)
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corbe
Newbie
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 28
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Back in the early 80's I was diagnosed with a Herniated Disk at L4~L5, after months of Therapy, Chiropratic (sic) and Pain Management, no longer able to walk or stand the Pain, I had my First Back Surgery, a Laminectomy. So here it is over 20 years later after 5 more surgeries, Vertrabre L5~S1, L4~L5 have been Fused. I have rods & screws from S1~L3. I am in constant pain. I no longer have a job or Insurance. If you are wonderng how I am getting by, I'm not. Bankruptcy is right around the corner. But, back to the story. I remember back before my first surgery, I could not walk, afterwards I was much better and my Life returned to Normal for a few years. I was even off Pain medication, except OTC Tylenols, on ocassion. I then reagravated my back and 5 surgeries later I can walk, but without Pain Medication Life seems hopeless. Each circumstance is different, as is each person as to their tolerable level of Pain. Surgery should be considered only as a LAST Option. Incidentally, I have also had a surgery (Fusion) on my Neck, T3~T4, I think it was, I have never experienced any pain from that area since. I have had orthos, and nueros operate on me. If it seems I'm whining well it's probably because Iam.
Edited by corbe (10/26/04 09:05 AM)
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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I have to sympathise with colby - His story is similar to mine - but I stopped the surgery at the first fusion.
As long as your limbs still work (most of teh time) surgery is not warranted. The not working legs is what got me. Them , like he says, 3-4 years with no pain no-pain meds normal life. Then further deterioriation, bone spurs (he did'nt mention them, but withthe surgies he lists Its about 95% that he has them also.
Nuero says no more surgeries till something stopps working. and just take the pills and be thankful you cannot feel what that bone on bone noise is coming from you when you walk
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mainship35
Stranger
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 9
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Can anyone tell me if they have experienced anything similar to this?
I had a spinal fusion at L4-L5-S1 in 1996 with titanium rods, and again in 2001 I had another spinal fusion at L3-L4 with more titanium rods. So now it is 3 years since my last surgery and I am experiencing problems again. Down the side of my right leg was going numb when I lay on my back in bed or lay in a certain position on the couch. Now it goes numb when I stand for longer than 10 minutes, walk any amount of time and in my car at times. I also have a spot on my left thigh about the size of a Softball that has gone numb totally for about 2 months. I also have a pain in my butt cheek whenever I sit. Mostly in the car? Is my pain in my rear end related to nerves in the back? I have also been experiencing my pain levels increasing.
I have seen a doctor and I am now going in for an MRI to try and see what's going on. The doctor is talking about using the Duragesic Patch for round the clock relief. After I had my surgery in 1996, my pain returned and I went for tests to determine what was wrong. The results were that my doctor did not see anything serious enough for surgery and gave me a 60% chance that surgery would help, so I decided at that time to try to maintain a normal life with the pain. At that time I went on the Duragesic Patch for 2-1/2 years when they retested and told me if I did not have surgery soon, I could become paralyzed. So that's why I had the 2001 surgery.
My questions are:
1. Does anyone know if the pain in my rear end is related to the back? (I already know I'm a pain in the butt!)
2.Has anyone else experienced disks going bad like this, one after another? (I was told that once you fix a disk, the next one up is overworked and goes bad?
3. He prescribed me to 5 days of a heavy dose of prednisolone, a steroid. I started on Monday and haven't noticed any difference yet. Anyone else heard of this?
I appreciate any comments very much.
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bronwyn
Newbie
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 40
Loc: bluegrass
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I have had the L5-S1 fudion with the rods and all - I had about 2 months no pain and then it slammed me again (I was at the point where it was surgery or slowly slipping into paralysis). More tests, mri's, mileograms, etc - according to the doc - nothing wrong must be scar tissue. Had a spinal injection at a pain mgt clinic (won't go back) and started have the numbness and tingling down the legs and feet - couldn't sit, stand, or laydown with out MAJOR pain, and of course the doc gave me ultram and then told me to stop taking it (these did work prior to the surgery, so don't exactly know what happened). Finally we worked out the meds to Darvon, combined with vistril, elavil for sleep, voltarin for inflamation, and muscle relaxers when needed (and tylenol controlled by me) and low and behold I feel better - not 100% relief, but I gave up on that a while ago. The only thing not handled is breakthrough, so I just go to bed and do exercises and wait. I have had the steriod course multiple times and the best one I found was 3 days of IV 1g prednisone - it helped to knock the pain down a couple of notches.
There has been discussion of another surgery to see what's going on and clean out scar tissue, but I am waiting. I can't tell you whether or not to do this - My Aunt had one, same place 20+ years ago and has had NO pain since, so there's one up and one down...
As for the pain in the rear - I do have that, around where they took the bone graf and also below where they did the fusion and it is a sharp stab, which nothing seems to help...
GOOD LUCK!!!! Whatever you chose to do - get a second opinion, talk with other patients, talk with family. I'll be glad to tell you more of my experience if you wish, just let me know.
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Bronwyn
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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I also had a L5-S1 fusion and then 4 years with no pain. Now I have L3-L4 & L4-L5 blown and bone spurs. They are not sure if the fusion failed.
But bottom line if it (the surgical repair) failed after only 2 months I would suggest another surgery - BUT DO NOT LET THE SAME SURGEON?ORGINIZATION DO IT. THEY don't know what they are doing.
My surgoein was 75 y\EARS OLD AND HAD DONE OVER 200 FUSIONS.
This is one are where there is NO replacement for experience.
Also my fusion was complicated , required two bone peices due to unusual(NOT NORMAL) nerve placement. And finally they used sterilized cadaver bone, which was accepted fine.
It worked for me and having them dig bone out was not my idea of fun. Also during recovery I craved milk - about 1-1.5 gallons a day - due to bone growth. take tums(calcium carbonate) or drink milk.
Finally, OPIATES, work for pain. The stuff you mentioned is no good and will blow out you stomach (I know from experience).
And your relative with no pain for 20 years is the optimal result - my further problems are caused by a genetic reverse curvature of the spine - they tell me that eventually about 1/2 of my disks are going to go
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chuckalugs
Stranger
Reged: 09/21/04
Posts: 5
Loc: SE Louisiana
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I have had a cervical fusion c7/t1 by one of the best neurosurgeons in La. I have also had to have my R Acetablum (the socket your hip fits into) repaired by an orthepedic surgeon. I would not recomend back surgery to anyone unless it is so unbearable to the point you can't function (work, walk, sleep, etc.). Because I can promise you that you may have pain now and baring the rare occasion be "cured" by the surgery. In my case all the surgery did was make it bearable for me to function normally and make a living for my family. I'll put it this way I will not have another neck, lower back surgery unless I can't walk or work. This is due to the fact that you will always hurt unless you're fortunate and have good ins and are able keep exercising. W
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dws1
Newbie
Reged: 04/27/04
Posts: 47
Loc: FL
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I have had two back surgeries on l4, l5, s1 area. I would not recomend it to anyone. I have DDD, spinal stenosis, scar tissue etc. i was on oxycotin before surgery and that was 1998 here it is 2004 and i am in more pain than I was before surgery. i had mine done by one of the best surgeons around. At john Hopkin's university. They want me to have disk replacement surgery when it is FDA approved for people who have had prior surgery and multiple level problems. I am thinking no way! My mother is a chiropracter and she has only seen 1 patient that benifitted from back surgery. She also had two surgeries and is still in extreme pain. i do not see the benifit in back surgery unless your case is uncomplicated and only on one level.
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bronwyn
Newbie
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 40
Loc: bluegrass
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Rocky, My surgeon has done around 200 or so also - I am just an anomly (I checked with other patients prior to the surgery), and I couldn't switch if I wanted - he's the only spine surgeon in my HMO. As for the meds - Darvon is an opiate and seems to be working better than hydro was and the doc will script 3 times as many for more level coverage during the day. As for the stomach - yeah, I'm having issues, but I did prior to taking any meds.
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Bronwyn
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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OK, it sounds like your doing everything. Darvon doesn't work for me the best ER meds for me are temesic, stadol, fenatyl.
And if you are in so much pain but still have the use of extremities you can either re-do it or live with it(using meds)
Mine is not surgically correctable, now. Unless I lose feeling in my legs again - they won't do a third on on me.
They do however give me enough pills to keep me out of ER - they woudl rather I take 8 vicodin(or norco) than 10-20mg morphine(in ER). I get a ridiculous amount of hydro.
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