sam001
Journeyman
Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 64
Loc: Nordstroms
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There have been recent arrest in Nogales Mexico of Americans purchasing controlled substances there. What is unclear to me is why this is now happenning. If anyone has knowledge of the reason, I'm curious, although I will not be going back anytime soon.
I saw a similar story of 4 Tucson residents arrested in Nogales Mexico for purchasing tranquilizers and antidepressants, about 2 weeks ago. Thought it was an isolated incident but clearly it was not.
Prescription gets man jailed in Mexico
By Kristina Davis, Tribune
Ray Lindell
Ray Lindell expected to be in Nogales, Mexico, for two hours. More than a month later, the 66-year-old is still there in jail on felony drug trafficking charges. His crime: Overlooking a technicality in Mexican law.
He bought a three-month supply of Valium for his 73-year-old wife, Norma, with a valid American prescription.
But he failed to get it rewritten by a Mexican doctor.
"Its been horrifying," said his stepdaughter-in-law, Connie Burkhart. "He was just trying to do what he thought was best for his wife, trying to take care of her."
Twelve Arizonans have been arrested in the border town since May as part of a crackdown targeting people who buy tranquilizers or painkillers without a legitimate prescription. The names of the other prisoners have not been released by authorities.
Lindell, who lives in east Phoenix, was nabbed by two plainclothes Nogales police officers May 19 after buying 270 Valium pills with a prescription in his wifes name, family members said.
The brand-name Valium, which his wife uses for a nervous condition, was not covered by their retirement medical insurance, but can be purchased across the border at about a third of the U.S. cost, family members said. Lindell paid $200 for the pills in Mexico.
In a country operating under the Napoleonic Code where prisoners are guilty until proven innocent, Lindells case is complicated because Valium is known to be a highly abused drug, the prescription wasnt in his name and the amount of pills was large, said Lindells stepson, Chris Burkhart, 50, of Phoenix.
A hearing to appeal a trial is scheduled for the beginning of August. If convicted, Lindell faces up to five years in prison, according to Mexican attorneys.
The governor of Sonora, Mexico, may be stepping in sooner, the family said. The governor told them a federal judge is set to review the case beginning today. But they dont want to get their hopes up.
A U.S. Embassy Web site recommends that U.S. citizens not travel to Mexico for the sole purpose of buying prescription drugs and warns that Mexican public health laws concerning controlled medications are unclear and often enforced selectively.
Mexican authorities could not be reached over the weekend.
In the meantime, family members say Lindell is getting used to Mexican jail life, even though he cant speak the same language as the 14 other men with whom he shares a cell block.
The Burkharts and other relatives try to visit Lindell once a week, bringing snacks, cash and books for him, plus cigarettes for bartering.
"Ive heard stories about being in a prison before and those kinds of thoughts run through my mind," Lindell said in an interview from the wardens office. "But no physical threats have happened to me or anything of that nature."
Lindells family has already paid $5,200 for his incarceration and defense, and another $4,000 will go to his Mexican attorneys if they get him out.
"All to save money on a prescription," Connie Burkhart said with a shake of her head.
Contact Kristina Davis by email, or phone () -
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themedman
Journeyman
Reged: 09/14/03
Posts: 66
Loc: 51 PEG
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Another sad story but I bet if it was a script he had paid a mexican doctor to write it may have been over looked or he could have slipped the fedarallies a few paseo's to turn a cheek & and I bet they would have
The truth is what he did was legal bringing in an american script to be filled but they like to make the money and will rat you out it to shakes of dogs tail...I can see it now hey man you told me to call you if another american show's up with a script he brought from the states...I did my part so give me my cut of the proceeds. SAD SAD SAD... MedMan
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To give is better than to recieve
Edited by themedman (06/21/04 10:27 PM)
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charismah
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 797
Loc: USA
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WELL IF THEY WOULD HAVE PMED ME FOR MY UNSOLICITED ADVICE, I COULD HAVE SAVED THEM THE TROUBLE. GO FOR SCHEDULED MEDS AND YOU MAY VERY WELL END UP IN MEXICAN PRISON FOR A LOOOOONG STAY. IT HAPPENS
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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The average cost in my region for a Mexican doc's script is $20. They even have their assistant go get the meds from the doctor owned pharmacy and package it anyway you want. It stinks in this case, but the fact of the matter is the law is the law. How many sympathetic people would there be on DB if a Mexican man came to our country and committed a felony?
PS. A "Paseo" is a car I believe, A "Peso" is Mexico's currency. Bribing a police officer in Mexico, although done frequently in the past, is not common place anymore. It is now punishable as a federal offense with a sentence of upto 15 years for both the officer and the suspect. If they don't ask, DON'T OFFER!
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themedman
Journeyman
Reged: 09/14/03
Posts: 66
Loc: 51 PEG
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Yes officer Piginpain....LOL     
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To give is better than to recieve
Edited by themedman (06/22/04 03:11 AM)
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Scar
Journeyman
Reged: 05/13/04
Posts: 51
Loc: East Coast
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HOLY COW!
When I lived in AZ I used to "slip down to Mexico" to purchase various items. There was never a problem. Nogales was my favorite hang-out on the weekends. What is this world coming to?
Scar
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"If you have a choice between rich and famous...
choose rich"~~Bill Murray
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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it sounds like the mexican version of our AMA is "choosing to be rich"
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wren
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/01/02
Posts: 259
Loc: up north & homesick for the di...
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Is it just me,but is this maybe a typo??? A senior citizen goes to Mexico to save money on a script for Valium...which is actually one of the dirt cheap drugs out there and used to be like pennys in Mexico. He goes to Mexico and spends $270.00 on 200 Valium ???? Am I missing something here? This just does not add up,I don't think we are getting the whole story here. I am gonna go look this up but last time I checked wasn't Valium like 12.00 for a prescription in the US without any discounts even like senior citizens discounts or medicare etc.... ???? Just wondering???? Wren
I just realized they also said it is about 1/3 the cost of the American price so that would make 200 valium in the US about 600.00 now???? God, that is enough to make you need a couple of valiums right there!!!! LOL Adios ,Wren
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its all fun & games til someone puts an eye out,then its still fun ,you just can't see***
Edited by wren (06/22/04 03:56 PM)
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holden99
Newbie
Reged: 03/23/02
Posts: 39
Loc: Michigan
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Nice critical thinking skills wren....something is fishy here about this story. I'm glad there are thoughtful people on this board that don't accept everything blindly.
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eelrm
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/02
Posts: 648
Loc: East Coast
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piginpain-Your analagy on this doesn't hold up.Mexican illegal aliens commit felonies all the time here-and the liberal laws in all the big cities (NYC,Chicago, LA) bar the authorities from contacting immigration. They are released shortly thereafter to commit more felonies-including murder. Happens all the time.
The Mexican legal system is as corrupt as a 3 dollar bill. STILL. And so are the Mexican cops. STILL. I was in Mexico last March, so I'm not going by what I "hear"."It's not like that any more" is B.S!!!!
This poor guy will get out only because it has become a major story. Otherwise, the only way out would be to BUY his way out.
There are many, many Americans rotting in Mexican jails because they didn't have the cash to get out quickly. Once they have been sentenced, it is much harder (and much more expensive too) to get out.
If anyone is thinking of going there to get drugs, while many people get away with it, it's not worth it. A Mex Dr script is no guarantee either-especially in the border towns. Stay away.
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sam001
Journeyman
Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 64
Loc: Nordstroms
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Thanks for your input. No doubt we're not getting the whole story. Although price wise, $200 for 270 tabs is about the price I'd expect to see there. There are 11 other people in jail and their stories were not published. One article, on 4 Tucson residents, indicated they purchased tranquilizers and antidepressants. Buying your way out of Mexico was always what I thought was the right thing to do, before any publicity occurs. Not sure these days. Just curious as to why Mexico, or Nogales, is suddenly cracking down on this activity. In the past the only arrest I'd ever seen were 19 year olds who bought and took valium and then consumed too much alcohol. It wasn't 66 year old men. It seemed to me they were more than happy to have US citizens fill their bags up with goodies from Mexican pharmacies.
Mostly, wanted to caution anyone considering a pharmacy trip to Nogales.
Thanks,
Sam
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BamaChica
Stranger
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 14
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wow..now if you dont sound a tad bit racist..i dont know who does..and frankly I am offended being that I am Mexican American.FYI... the politically correct term is Undocumented immigrant..not illegal alien. And I think your comment that " all mexican illegal aliens get arrested then get out to commit more felonies,including murder" is outrageous. I am sure some "hispanic" people do commit crimes,..Im not sure that all of these people are from MEXICO..or that they ALL get out to commit felonious crimes including murder.Some of the laws in Mexico are horrid and for the most part the law enforcement there are crooked as can be.. however I won't sterotype an entire race because of what a few have done.
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limper
Member
Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 185
Loc: USA
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"the politically correct term is"...HA! That doesn't "cut it" in the Real World..The REAL WORLD..Real Life,LEGAL term IS:ILLEGAL ALIEN..P-E-R-I-O-D..ILLEGAL ALIEN..I-L-L-E-G-A-L...
A Federal Felon by way of ILLEGAL ENTRY into The U.S.A....MY Country....
Now...back to the topic of this thread...please..
Limper..A Legal AMERICAN ..and GLAD & PROUD of it!!!
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 229
Loc: East
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I think if you make sure you have cash on hand you will be able to barter you're way out of a situation with the mexican LE's.
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stpharmasist
Stranger
Reged: 06/13/04
Posts: 18
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this is a true story it was all over t.v. last week in AZ also they showed a younger man purchasing vauliums from mexico going through the same ordeal sounds awful to me and the price doesnt even sound so great compared to iop's available, ive never seen the big deal in going to mexico to get medication
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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hey, that is the way Legal and Proud of Being Americans, talk, no political correctness OR compassion, gets in their way. lo siento.
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jesus_verga
Newbie
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 32
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In 1997 I was stopped by 2 city police in Tijuana. I was carrying lots of Ritalin, Asenlix, Esbelcaps, veterinary anesthetics and anabolics. (I had Mexican scripts for the Ritalin, Asenlix and Esbelcaps).
I was looking a bit scruffy (like a TJ street person), so the officers adressed me in Spanish initially...I explained in Spanish that I was not fluent.
In perfectly annuniciated English, they explained to me that in spite of my prescriptions that i was illegally in possession of those drugs. I argued weakly that I had scripts for everything that wasn't purchased openly over the the counter.
They searched the lunch bag in which I was carrying my meds. (They also searched my cigarette pack for coke, weed, crank and meth...sniffed my Coca Cola for alcohol).
It was explained to me that "many things that appear to be legal in Tijuana are not"...and "you really do not want to see the inside of a Mexican jail". The officers expressed concerns that I might be at risk for abusing medications.
The officers warned me that if they were ever again to see me buying pharmaceuticals, they would arrest me on sight and informed me that that they would have their supervisor call my doctor and notify him that he was never to do business with me again.
I was allowed to keep my meds and leave without incident.
Needless to say, I don't think I would have been wise to try to bribe the officers. (That would have been an admission of guilt...and grounds for more charges!).
They followed through on their promise have my doctor warned...next visit he informed me that the municipal policia lieutenant had called him in and warned him he was no longer to do business with me.
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BamaChica
Stranger
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 14
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I would bet money that more than once in your life you have also said "they should load em all up and send em back to Africa where they came from".... which is also disgustingly racist, in my opinion...which as an "AMERICAN..LEGAL AND PROUD.." I am entitled to.I am shocked at the things that actually still come out of people's mouth's here in 2004...how embarrassing.
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limper
Member
Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 185
Loc: USA
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Too bad for you..that you find yourself seemingly ashamed to be/of being A LEGAL & PROUD American Citizen..how so very pitiful & strange..ever heard of "American National Soverienty"? If so,evidently it matters not..
Why not just go on back to moveon.org where you no doubt reside with your ilk..while being "oh-so-politically correct"...as is "your want"..as an American(so you say) who is evidently ashamed of himself and his countrymen...
Are all these people Legal? I think not..If so..what happened?..did they ALL "just lose their papers somewhere"? WHY are they "undocumented"?...I think I know! Because they ARE I-L-L-E-G-A-L..PERIOD!!...Federal Felons by their very being here physically..WITHOUT American Citizenship(or LEGAL paperwork)..
**Face IT** "YOU can't handle The Truth"...or you wouldn't INSIST on using word games..corrupting the true meaning of words..oh well,if it "makes you feel better"..that's ALL that counts..huh? Yeah,right...
***Meanwhile..back at/to The Thread..***BACK TO THE THREAD**
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limper
Member
Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 185
Loc: USA
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OOOPS!!
S-O-V-E-R-E-I-G-N-T-Y....sovereignty...can be spelled either way..sorry sports fans! I learned English & spellng in a ole' American school...shame on me...I'm ashamed of myself...how's that?
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cocolarue
Stranger
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
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Hey Bamachick! I hate racism to so please when reading this post keep that in mind. I do not see where anyone said that ALL illegal immigrants are commiting felonies, I see a post about some people who are here without proper papers commiting felonies and then being released without being deported, thats all. Like I said before I hate racism too but I do not think that is what was meant by that post. Our country and YES! I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! was based on immigration, we are all either immigrants or have ancestors who immigrated here and we don't always remember that but one of the biggest problems we have in our countryis that we are so afraid to offend anyone that someimes LE walks on thier tippy toes rather than treating all criminals the same. I really think that is all they were trying to say in that post. I just think that unless there is actaully some racist thing going on in these posts we should leave the whole race card where it belongs, in the tiolet and get on with discussing what we came here to discuss and that is about chronic pain and to what extent some people feel they need to go to to get thier meds. Just my 2 cents.
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 229
Loc: East
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Wow, thats a wild story! So one thing I don't get, if you had scripts then why did they say it was illegal ? Was the doctor not suppposed to write those out?
I am suprised they actually contacted the doc to! My image of the LE in Tijuana is like the keystone cops but this sounds like they were actually acting like a LE should.
Did they just stop you out of the blue or did they see you comming out of a pharmacy ??
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SuseCue
Member
Reged: 04/25/04
Posts: 159
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
In 1997 I was stopped by 2 city police in Tijuana. I was carrying lots of Ritalin, Asenlix, Esbelcaps, veterinary anesthetics and anabolics. (I had Mexican scripts for the Ritalin, Asenlix and Esbelcaps).
I was looking a bit scruffy (like a TJ street person), so the officers adressed me in Spanish initially...I explained in Spanish that I was not fluent.
In perfectly annuniciated English, they explained to me that in spite of my prescriptions that i was illegally in possession of those drugs. I argued weakly that I had scripts for everything that wasn't purchased openly over the the counter.
They searched the lunch bag in which I was carrying my meds. (They also searched my cigarette pack for coke, weed, crank and meth...sniffed my Coca Cola for alcohol).
It was explained to me that "many things that appear to be legal in Tijuana are not"...and "you really do not want to see the inside of a Mexican jail". The officers expressed concerns that I might be at risk for abusing medications.
The officers warned me that if they were ever again to see me buying pharmaceuticals, they would arrest me on sight and informed me that that they would have their supervisor call my doctor and notify him that he was never to do business with me again.
I was allowed to keep my meds and leave without incident.
Needless to say, I don't think I would have been wise to try to bribe the officers. (That would have been an admission of guilt...and grounds for more charges!).
They followed through on their promise have my doctor warned...next visit he informed me that the municipal policia lieutenant had called him in and warned him he was no longer to do business with me.
You had mexican scripts for veterinary anesthetics and anabolics AND Ritilan? From the same doctor? How? Why? What? Can you elaborate on this? lol This sounds like a very wild trip!
Susie**
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Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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stpharmasist
Stranger
Reged: 06/13/04
Posts: 18
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the rule is as i believe it to be is you must have a mexican prescription to posses the medicine in mexico, you pay the doctor $20 - $5 to write you a script, the people arested had american scripts but did not bother to get a mexican script bought straight from the pharmacy,this story is really scary and seems like an important topic to discuss but instead streams of "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" and rascist Best if kept off the board can we stick to the topic please and leave the politics at home or on another thread, these people are american citizens doing 5 - 10 years for buying a bottle of vaulium,
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jjt6
Newbie
Reged: 07/20/02
Posts: 46
Loc: South
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We should love all people who like vallium.
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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Quote:
piginpain-Your analagy on this doesn't hold up.Mexican illegal aliens commit felonies all the time here-and the liberal laws in all the big cities (NYC,Chicago, LA) bar the authorities from contacting immigration. They are released shortly thereafter to commit more felonies-including murder. Happens all the time.
The Mexican legal system is as corrupt as a 3 dollar bill. STILL. And so are the Mexican cops. STILL. I was in Mexico last March, so I'm not going by what I "hear"."It's not like that any more" is B.S!!!!
This poor guy will get out only because it has become a major story. Otherwise, the only way out would be to BUY his way out.
There are many, many Americans rotting in Mexican jails because they didn't have the cash to get out quickly. Once they have been sentenced, it is much harder (and much more expensive too) to get out.
If anyone is thinking of going there to get drugs, while many people get away with it, it's not worth it. A Mex Dr script is no guarantee either-especially in the border towns. Stay away.
First, most of the Americans who are in jail in Mexico, and I have seen many on prison tours, are the arrogant type who by actions or words say "I am an American, you are only a Mexican, take my money and kiss my feet for coming to your filthy country." The Mexican people are a proud, hardworking group of people on the whole, but any generalizations are dangerous.
Just curious... Would you please post a link to a news story regarding ONE case in which an undocumented alien, without claim of diplomatic immunity, committed a felony ANYWHERE in the U.S. and was released after committing this crime without being subjected to due process? Or perhaps you could find ONE case on www.findlaw.com?? Maybe, just maybe, you will find one or two exceptions to this rule.
When an undocumented alien is arrested for ANY crime their file is marked with a "federal" or "immigration" hold. This means that they are released into the custody of an immigration officer or U.S. Marshall. You may be confusing this process with another ruling. Currently, police officers are not allowed to DETAIN a person simply because they believe they are undocumented. That law will change, congress willing, in the next year.
ANYONE from ANYWHERE, with or without a lawful document to enter or remain in this country may be arrested for a crime or detained for investigation unless they have diplomatic immunity.
I have 10 of my fourteen years of LE working patrol or investigations within 5-30 miles of the U.S./Mexican border (not to mention living there). I have also spent a total of eight months training with State Judicial, Federales, and two municipal police departments in Baja California. They requested assistance about eight years ago in upgrading their training and reforming their LE. I have also purchased medications from antibiotics to valium dozens of times in Mexico over the past twenty years.
The Mexican people have laws in their country too. If you go to Mexico to buy medications you have a duty to ensure that you are obeying Mexican law, U.S. Customs regulations, and state law of the state you are entering into.
I agree with other posts here that something sounds funny about this story. The current price of 90 Roche 10mg Valium is $40 and the doctor's fee is $20. The doctor can write, legally, for up to 90 days supply or 270 pills. That means the total cost should have been no more than $140 for 270 pills, plus the customary tip of $5 for the person who picks up the medication and packages it for you.
Xenophobia and racism will only tear this country apart. Unless someone can show that their ancestors migrated to this country via the Barring strait, then all of us are foreigners here. If anyone goes to anywhere that they are not a native of, be it another state or another country, they have a duty to respect the customs, laws, and beliefs of their host. If they don't like it there, they should go back to whatever they call home.
Here is a link to the official govt website of Mexico with their laws and constitution:
Mexican laws
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jesus_verga
Newbie
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 32
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susie, if you look a little more closely, you will note that i only had scripts for the diet pills and rits. (the veterinary items were were purchased OTC from the same "granero" whose owner got in trouble with DEA over ttokio labs).
stpharmacist, it is illegal for mexican doctors to write fake or questionable scripts...i WAS still allowed to keep my meds.
t_oshan2003, a more valid image of TJ cops would be more Benicio Del Toro in "Traffic" than keystone kops... I was stopped "out of the blue" after being seen coming out of more than one different pharmacy
Edited by jesus_verga (06/28/04 01:15 AM)
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BamaChica
Stranger
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 14
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well said Piginpain...you are not only well-read, but supplied very interesting information. I appreciate your post and wished more people shared the same views as we did..then there would be much less hate and animosity in this country. Im glad LE has someone with as much integrity for ALL HUMANS as you do. Wish there were more like you in my neck of the woods!!
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pysov
Newbie
Reged: 12/04/03
Posts: 25
Loc: colorado
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I am a member of the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Nation. Even though our land has been stolen, our people massacred, so on and so forth, I still think we live in the best country on the face of the earth. I just have to laugh when I hear people moaning about "illegal aliens" invading "their" land, and (oh my god!) breaking the law by doing so. How many treaties, promisses and other agreements were dishonored by europeans in order to acquire this land? I propose that those who are vehemently against the influx of illegal aliens into the US set an example for others to follow; move back to Europe. I appolpgize for this having nothing to do with this particular thread. Cheers!
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bills
Newbie
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 45
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Quote:
First, most of the Americans who are in jail in Mexico, and I have seen many on prison tours, are the arrogant type who by actions or words say "I am an American, you are only a Mexican, take my money and kiss my feet for coming to your filthy country." The Mexican people are a proud, hardworking group of people on the whole, but any generalizations are dangerous.
I have lived in South Texas for 20 years I have friends who have homes in the Mexican Interior and I have traveled with them. Now I'm, not saying that there probably aren't Americans who think they are better but there of just as many if not more who did not have this arrogant attitude you speak of.
One friend I have traveled with who has a home in the Interior and grew up there MUST pay bribes to the Mexican Police just about the whole way in order to bring things for his home in. He pays much less then an American would have to but he does pay.
Perhaps the American Prisoners in Mexican Jails you have seen are angry with good reason. Jails here are by far not the Ritz but they sure aren't the disgusting disease ridden hovels the Mexican Prisons are. So here these Americans sit in Mexico but the Mexicans sitting in US jails have it 100 times better. And any Mexican American or illegal I know would agree. In fact our prisons our better then most of the homes they came from. Plus you don't mention that if a person wants half way decent food their families must bring in the food and other items needed to maintain their cleanliness.
If Mexico was as you say it is why do so many leave?
Better yet, after 9-11 why did so many Mexicans run back across the border in fears of what might happen next. It amazes me how much so many of them want to be here but head south if the US is in trouble.
I'm sorry if the truth bothers you but the Mexican goverment is as about as corrupt as they come, something that is common knowledge down here. Those who don't live in border states are clueless about what is really happening down here. And it does tick me off that I can't afford health insurance but many border states already in the red pay through tax dollars for the health care of non USA citizens that reaches in the millions every year.
The bottom line is that Mexico knows the US citizens pays in tax dollars,health, crime, food stamps and jobs for it's citizens but are happy to throw as old man in prison because he is an American and that is exactly why he was arrested pure and simple.
bills
Edited by bills (06/28/04 12:24 AM)
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