MrB
Old Hand
Reged: 12/11/01
Posts: 488
Loc: Rhode Island
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Death By Tylenol
The site was not coming up as of this post but I read an article about an Oklahoma girl who took 20 tylenol for a migraine and is now dead. They might have been able to save her but too much time had passed.
A hard lesson and a real eye opener for all of us that are on meds with APAP!
MrB
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"I aint fallin for no banana in my tailpipe!"
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oldnavy170
Board Addict
Reged: 05/12/03
Posts: 357
Loc: New York
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Here is a better link to the story.
http://www.newsok.com/?news
The only problem is you have to sign up with them to read the whole story so this is only the link to the small clip of information about it.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I know Voyager is going to jump in and disagree, but I think combining APAP with opioids to create Schedule III pain killers is a cruel joke by the DEA. The APAP is there to discourage you from taking too much of an opiate by destroyying your liver. As I mentioned in a previous post, I know someone who committed slow, excruciating suicide by ODing on APAP. When I mentioned it to my wife, she also knew someone from college, who did that. Now we have this story from OK.
FYI - some of the OP's are now offering Vicoprofen - 7.5/200. IMHO, this is a much safer combo, than Vicodin. So, Voyager, my friend show us those safety profiles of APAP vs. IB IMHO IB is almost a miracle drug, if you want to know more, check out
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/feb2001_report_acam_1.html
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 922
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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When I was much younger, I knew a young mother with chronic LBP that got 'addicted' (those days) 'Dependent' is what we would call it these days.
She was forced into rehab and just live with the pain cold turkey by her parents.
The pain was overwhelming and one day she took 30 Tylenol at one time.
Everyone thought she had wished to commit suicide. So did I. Five short years later I was reaching my limit on Oxycontin (for that time); and still in pain all day.
I thought back and realized in her desperation she must have thought that maybe 30 Tylenol would do what 10 Vicodin used to. Back in 1990, just 13 years ago, no one really wanted to say oh, the opiates won't kill you, its the Tylenol.
Anyway she died, and left beautiful children behind. There was no note. It was not planned. Her house was clean, though, and her children knew they were loved, so there goes that profile we are all supposed to know and loathe...the addict.
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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OK Plotinus,
You got my attention so here goes:
First and foremost take into account this horrible tragedy. I am of the opinion that manufacturers of both tylenol and Ibuprofen (of which ther are many; i.e. Mcneil, J & J, Whitehall labs etc) do not have sufficient warning labels on their containers.
True millions of people all over the world every year take these meds with NO Problems at all. But when you hear a story such as this one, it makes you think about the toxicity of the meds that we are consuming. I never said that APAP was without risk. Quite the contrary, when not taken according to directions there are hazards.
This poor individual swallowed 20 extra strength APAP(500 mg each) for a total of 10,000 mg 0f APAP in one dose. I wonder if the newspaper actually got that number right. It is possible that they did but it is also possible that they didn't.
According to the literature the max dosage of APAP @ one time is 1000 mg (2 extra strength tylenol). The max daily dose is 4000mg (over a 24 hour period) for less than 10 days. Greater than that the max dose should not exceed 2600 mg of APAP.
Now I am not going to debate whether (20) 200mg ibuprofen is less fatal than 20 500mg extra stength tylenol because that is ridiculous. But what I will say is that all of these med combinations (hydro and APAP or ibu) when taken in greater than prescribed doses (and most of us here have been guilty of that one time or another) involve inherent risks.
Now the meds that we are prescribed that have combos of hydro or ibu are for all intense and purposes relatively safe although each has its own risks that we have discussed in earlier forums. But what I will say is that if you are concerned about exceeding the recommended doses of tylenol, talk to your md about switching you to a schedule 2 substance such as oxy IR, roxicodone or ms contin so that you can avoid the excess APAP. If that is not possible, I like the compounded hydro meds (only have 80 mg of APAP per dose) that you can buy. They are a bit more expensive, but if you take a lot of hydro and are concerned about your liver then i think that you can't put a price on your health. You could actually consume 20 of the compounded meds and still be @ only 1600 mg for a 24 hour period!! Hope your tolerance is REALLY HIGH!!!
The strange thing about this tragic death is that I have seen people take up to 40 norco a day (which I think is insane) without ill effects. Now I know that cannot be good for you but that person not only did not die, they did not even get sick (I mean sicker than they already were)!!
I hope that this tragic death has somehow enlightened us all about the inherent risks of meds in general.
Thanks and peace to all. 
Voyager
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qbird
material girl
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 831
Loc: USA
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I can tell you a personal story about how dangerous too much Tylenol is. My grandmother had Parkinson's disease and would forget quite often(I don't know if this was related to the disease though) but she did. Anyway she kept taking Tylenol forgetting she would take it and kept taking it. She ended up taking about 30 of them. She went into a coma for 2 months before she died. Horrible memory of my grandmother.
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sara43
Member
Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 196
Loc: Mississippi
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I am sorry about your Grandma!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm sorry to hear about all of your losses to tylenol. This really is an eye opener for me because I take hydro and have never thought anything about my liver EVER! I never would have if it wasn't for you guys. I really do appreciate all of you with your stories, helpful hints on how to repair my liver, and just general precautions and awarness about this subject.
I sincerely appreciate it to all that has posted on this subject!!
Train
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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Sorry to hear about all this.
This is just one more episode in constant battle between drug users (legitimate ones) and the DEA. I really wish they'd just put a weak antihistamine or hydroxyzine (an antihistamine and potentiator) instead.
-yawkaw
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Anglwink
Veteran
Reged: 04/29/03
Posts: 605
Loc: East coast
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yes, My boyfriends cousin died about 10 years ago from a tylenol overdose. It does happen...just another example that to much of ANYTHING (yes plotinus even ibu) can really do some damage. I guess it just depends on ones individual chemistry. Remember that anything is possible! Anglwink
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"Believe"
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Mine
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/03/02
Posts: 200
Loc: Northeast USA
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Quote:
IMHO IB is almost a miracle drug,
It kills people too. Several have been known to bleed to deal because of it. Others, like myself, will be on medication for the rest of our lives because of the damage this drug has done to our stomachs.
Any drug can be dangerous. People should know all the risks before they take anything.
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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Quote:
FYI - some of the OP's are now offering Vicoprofen - 7.5/200. IMHO, this is a much safer combo, than Vicodin
I just wish that they would make it with 10mg hydro. Actually, I am supprised that with all the other formulations that they have come ot with, they haven't come out with this one yet.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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rex
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/29/03
Posts: 219
Loc: U.S.
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I have a question: Is hydrocdone/APAP 15/80 (I think that's the compound) Schedule II or Schedule III?
If it is Schedule II, then am I correct in assuming that US OPs will not Rx it?
If it is Schedule III, does anyone know if our "favorite" OPs (YOD, FedExMeds, EVMG, etc.) will Rx it?
I asked YOD for the highest hydrocodone/APAP ratio compound, and the doctor said 10/325 was the highest ratio they will Rx.
Thanks for any answers.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1962
Loc: Texas
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Rex, I'm not completely positive on this but I think those compounded meds are Schedule III. I have read about them on the board, and there is only a couple of OP's that prescribe them.....Dr. Mildred Watson is one - here is her LINK and I'm trying to think of the other one.....you might want to try a search of all forums on "compounded meds" to see, I just can't think of the other place. Madison Pain Clinic? Of course, they are very expensive from what I've heard.
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 879
Loc: usa
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Quote:
I have a question: Is hydrocdone/APAP 15/80 (I think that's the compound) Schedule II or Schedule III?
If it is Schedule II, then am I correct in assuming that US OPs will not Rx it?
If it is Schedule III, does anyone know if our "favorite" OPs (YOD, FedExMeds, EVMG, etc.) will Rx it?
I asked YOD for the highest hydrocodone/APAP ratio compound, and the doctor said 10/325 was the highest ratio they will Rx.
Thanks for any answers.
They are shcedule III, but only OP's who use pharmacies that have the ability to readily compound the meds can prescribe them. There are only a few OP's that do prescribe them, though off hand, I am not sure which ones. I use YOD, and I know that they do not.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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yawkaw3
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/03
Posts: 1193
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CyberScriptsRX.com and painmeds4u.com (madison pain clinic) both offer compounded meds (15/80 or whatever). Both require a port-a-medic visit (which sucks, but they gotta protect themselves). There are others, but those are the two I know of.
-yawkaw
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rex
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/29/03
Posts: 219
Loc: U.S.
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Thanks a bunch for the answers about 15/80's Fly Girl, Kerri Anne, and yawkaw.
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