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marnie64
Newbie
Reged: 06/25/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Michigan
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I went to dr. Right arm not working quite right. Hurt, numb, shaking muscles, etc..... So this PA is checking over my chart and says "Don't u think this is an awful lot of Vicodine, Mary?" (3 tabs per day for fibro pain) I said, excuse me??? He proceeds to say "I have cancer pts who don't take this much." I responed with "SO...JUST B/C I DO NOT HAVE CANCER - DOCTOR - I SHOULD NOT HURT BAD ENOUGH TO TAKE THIS VERY SMALL DOSE OF VIC.? I started to cry, I do that when frustrated. I would not talk, or could not talk to him. Felt like walking out but just sat there crying like a baby. He left the room, came back w/box of kleenex and says "Chronic pain sucks." I just looked at him like, how the ... would you know. I did say to the guy, until you walk a day in my shoes, you have no right to compare my pain with that of your cancer pts. My father had lung cancer, had his entire left lung removed. Cancer spread to bone, the man never even took an aspirin for pain??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  So..... anyone else had this comparison thing done to them - just curious
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Marnie
Edited by Melody (07/27/03 07:05 PM)
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haywiremcguire
Newbie
Reged: 05/16/02
Posts: 32
Loc: Memphis, TN
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My compassion really goes out to you!!
My brother is a doctor and as he has gone on and practiced more years he, just like the rest have gotten the "GOD COMPLEX". It amazes me that he thinks that he can tell me how much or how little pain his patients are in.
They are for the most part full of bull manure!
Hope you find a compassoinate Doc!
Tommy
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haywiremcguire
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1985
Loc: Texas
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Oh Marnie........that makes me FURIOUS! How dare he???? I wish these doctors that pooh-pooh Fibro pain could live a couple of days with it. He's full of Best if kept off the board too, many cancer patients are on Oxy because hydro isn't enough for the pain. I think I would make a complaint to the doctor about this PA if I were you. How insulting and you deserve much, much better treatment than that.
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TLT
Board Addict
Reged: 10/21/02
Posts: 358
Loc: loc. usa
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marnie, I agree with Legitimate, Report this PA to the Dr, afterall didn't your Dr prescribe this for you? How dare he, question your DR's prescribing method!
My sister-in-law, is a nurse, she has went back to school to become a PA, she keeps saying that she will soon be a DR?
IMO, PA's are just that "Assistants", but most think they know way more, than any DR. I don't believe they are even qualified to write narcotic meds, Go to your Dr with this complaint, and get this jerk reprimanded for humiliating you!
Terri
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"RUDENESS IS THE WEAK MANS IMITATION OF STRENGTH"
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chevygal
Veteran
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 504
Loc: Way down south
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Hey Marnie64
What a crappy situation to put you in. That really hasn't happened to me the way it happened to you, but when my mother was sick, and this was 6 yrs ago, she was dying from copd and some other things, I remember being in the hospital on this one occasion and she needed some pain meds, she was almost in tears and afraid to ask for something. I called the nurse and I get this look, she then says "well Mrs.******* rate your pain. At the time like I said my mother was dying. I became so irate. I went off on this nurse, I did do it politely. All the woman wanted was a pain pill and they wanted to question her and put her through the third degree for this. I had to fight tooth and nail to get her on decent pain meds while at home. They were worried about this 73yro woman getting addicted to something, never mind making her last few months comfortable. And to think this doc assist. thought 3 vics was WAY to much. I too have fibro and I can sympathize with you as I do know how painful it it. I also have nerve damage in my left arm, sounds similar to your symptoms, pm me if you ever want to compare notes 
chevygal
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prettyday
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 1134
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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My heart goes out to you, Marnie  . I always get that sinking feeling too when someone questions my use.
But if he did come back in the room with kleenex, and said that "chronic pain sucks" it sounds like he did come to a realization you needed it...so maybe he will be kinder next visit. Let's all visualize that for Marnie!
Oh, I wrote a looong post about this not long ago, after Father's Day, because that made my memories stir...
Long post short: my family gets resistant to opiates almost immediately in conjunction with their pain. My father-in-law would never admit when he was in pain, til the end, so that factors in too. Pain thresholds are something like blue eyes or earlobes, I think.
Now, I have a question for anyone here who has served in the military, like special forces, or?
Can one build one's resistance to pain through some sort of regimen or thought process? Or is that more like acute pain suffered in combat or captivity?
Please answer if any one knows.....
I think it is the chronicness that wears us down...
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Edited by prettyday (07/27/03 06:52 PM)
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chevygal
Veteran
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 504
Loc: Way down south
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prettyday
I don't know if this really applies but I do think to an extent one can "suck it up" when in certain situations or when they know they have to. My son is in the Marines and I will never forget going to his graduation (from basic) Basic for the Corps is 13 weeks, at the end of the 13 weeks they go through what is called the Crucible it is 54 hours of testing. They are out in the woods, they do mock battle, 15 20 mile humps ect. on 2 hours of sleep per 24 hours. My son had stress fractures and a torn ligament in his ankle he knew he could not say anything for fear of being pulled from training sent to a medic and graduation put off for weeks. They are told for 13 weeks to be tough and they truly learn it. It is totally drilled in their heads that they can and have to deal with it. Although this was really a mistake on his part as he now is looking at extensive surgery on his both of his ankles. I natually has a HUGE fit when I saw the condition of his ankle and he explained it as being able to detach himself from what hurt. I couldn't do it I know that. but they are taught to do this I guess. Anyway, this may not have been quite the reply you were looking for but it just made me think back to when this happened and how the kid could have managed to march and march and..... and not even change the expression on his face. The bright side of this for me at least is depending on things go he may get to come home for good. Prior to going in the service he dealt with pain just like the rest of us when it hurt it hurt. He was definitly a different person after that.
chevygal
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Greycie
Old Hand
Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 477
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
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When anybody suggests knowing anything about my pain, I ask them if they 'feel' the pain that I'm enduring. You cannot know what somebody feels because you are not them- that goes for your P.A. I have a very high pain threshhold and if I can't get up and walk because my legs won't hold me (the pain is at times that severe) can a doctor or P.A. or anybody for that matter tell me that it *shouldn't* be that painful based on what other people experience?! He#$ No! It doesn't matter what other people *generally* experience, what matters is how your pain is affecting you. Don't allow anybody to tell you what you feel or what you *should* feel based on studies. As you said, until they walk a mile in *your* shoes, they have no clue as to what you're dealing with. Good luck!
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
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PrivateRealm
Threadhead
Reged: 03/18/03
Posts: 927
Loc: usa
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Though I didn't tell My neurologist who prescribed it, I told hime that I took Hydro 10mg 4-5 x's per day, he didn't bat an eye. Not even when i told him that I sometimes substitute or suppliment with Ultram and Robaxin. If he did, I wouldn't give a hoot. He isn't the one in my body.
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KeriAnne~~~
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."
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flea
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/17/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Recently moved to Mid-West, bu...
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Marine - -
I completely understand the whole "crying thing" when someone touches on an already touchy and obviously emotional subject. My pain doc is such a jerk that for some reason he has this creepy hold over me. Even if I go in telling myself that NO MATTER WHAT I will not cry today, he says something like, "I think we are looking at an addiction problem here" and I am a goner. Instead of being in control and confidently dissagreeing with the putz, I just sit there and almost hypervenilate. I have never been like that but I think that because this whole pain issue has such control over me and I am so dependent on these people to actually help me that I loose all emotional control.
He was not even the one prescribing my pain meds, my regular dr. was, I was not even coming to him for nay meds, but rather help with my pain. I still to this day have no idea what he does for people, but I know he has done nothing but sent me back a few notches in my recovery. (from pain, not addiction). It is so weird. Why would I come to him if I was addicted since he is not the prescribing dr.? I already have that. I got a hold of my medical records from the visits with him and i have to say I about fainted. The things he wrote blew me away. Seriously, he diagnosed me as manic and had a splitting personality (whatever that means) and sent me for a psych review. Well the pain psychologist totelly disagreed with him and thankfully that is now noted in my file. I mean bi-polar. Please, I admit i cry a lot in there, but I have been pretty consistant about it. He has only seen me crying, so how could he determine that i was bi-polar? Doesn't there have to be a part of me that finally crashes and or finally goes into a completely different mode? If i am always crying and he thought I was bi-polar, well then please point out when I have been anything but upset in there with him? I admit he makes me cry, but that is a consistent cry, not anything that would make me look bi-polar.
Anyway, my message here is that after i got these records I feel SO different about him and I am so ready to see him again, especially since he does not have a clue that I have read these. I MUST be in control this next time otherwise I will just keep looking like an out of control psycho b***h!
I only get upset in there because I jumped through so many loops to get to the pain dr. and I thought i was going to get some real help. I have not received anything but negativity from this guy and I in no way ever went there for meds, so that whole addiction thing is ridiculous!!
He even called my family doctor, the prescribing dr. and told her that he thought I should go off the oxycontin cold turkey and be admitted into a drug rehab program, even though this oxy was the first time I have ever had ANY pain relief since my back surgery in November 2002. Luckily she disagreed with him and did not feel I had an addiction problem. Bless her heart she kept me on the oxy and my pain has been somewhat manageable for the last month.
Anyway, I know I am WAY off topic here and totally jumped into my own little "poor me" story but when I read that this pathetic PA was telling you that you are taking more than a cancer patient i wanted to scream (I guess that is the bi-polar in me, ha). Seriously. What I have finally learned from this guy might be helpful for all of us that are experiencing such demoralizing care and statements. I mean I am sure I do start to look out of control when I can not stop crying, but that has never happened before in ANY situation, but then again I have never been so helpless in my life. My pain has taken over any independence I had and that can really change a person. So what I would suggest to anyone in this situation again is to not allow the person making these hurtful remarks to gain any kind of power from their stupid remarks. You know, like a whole "see I told you she is crazy, or see, I told you she is over medicated"
By crying or by not remaining in control we have just handed over any power we had. However by remaining calm and not letting our pain and our defenses speak for us, we will be far ahead of the game.
Since I am working on developing these skills and picturing what I will say to this dr. on monday, or to any other doctor that ever makes me feel like this again, I feel much better. I cannot cry or look helpless! Instead I will just turn things around and prove him/her wrong at every corner. Instead of crying and saying, "you are wrong, I am not addicted and how dare you say that after you know what I have been through" I will say, "wow, well that is a surprise. Geez, I am so sorry you feel that way because I am quite confident I am in a lot of pain, and that is why i came here. I was hoping to learn several different modes of therapy and deciding to allow you into this coordinated care was part of the big picture. You know, the more people i have involved in my care, the better my chances are for receivng all of the therapy options out there. Maybe one doctor knows about something new, that a different dr. did not know about. It is obviously then in my best interest to have that doctor on my side. I am sorry and somewhat mystified at your sudden diagnosis of my being bi-polar as well as the possibility of being addicted to pain meds, but right now maybe we should focus more on your expertise and leave the mental health diagnosis to the professionals as well as the addiction matters. Right now I would like to see what you can offer me in terms of relieving my continual pain.
Done deal. However if it was the PA saying something to me I would try my best to regain control of myself and then try to come up with some little smart a** remark regarding his profession. You know, suggesting that he maybe ought not comment on my medication dosage being that he is just a "PA" and that you have met with several other "doctors" and specialists and the dose of meds I am on now comes from their suggestions. You know even if that is not true, even if you are getting these meds online, put him in his place and regain control of that room. Others might tell me not to get all smarty with him but I am tired of the whole respect thing. If I feel I am not being respected than watchout. I will no longer cry, I will put my brains and sarcasm to work and make that person feel pretty stupid. Heck I was very good at that before and I have no idea where that was lost. My husband said he had never seen me just sitting there crying like that and having that doctor go on and on about how messed up I was. He said that the old me (the pain free me) would have made him walk out of that room crying, not the other way around.
So the point to this very long post is not to give this power over to these people. They crave it and when we sit there and cry we are just proving them right. We are out of control and the pain is not really "real" but rather it is highly related to the amount of anxiety we are experiencing. Not like a big kick in the b***s won't give him pain and anxiety, but that is besides the point here.
So I am so sorry for this long message. To top it off I do not have time to re-read it and to do a spell check cuz I have to run so I can only imagine all of the errors. Sorry, but I did want to tell of my experience and to empower anyone else that might find themselves in a similare situation. How dare they talk to us like that. We are hiring them, he is MY EMPLOYEE, not the other way around and I will not allow his misguided statements go into my medical record without a fight. OOOH I can not wait until Monday, August 11. Now I have to stick to my word because I will have to come back here to report.
O.K. BYE EVERYONE, and STAY STRONG girls, AND boys!!
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Flea
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Jordan530
WonderWoman
Reged: 11/20/02
Posts: 597
Loc: The Left Coast of Florida
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Flea, I can't offer any advice but after reading your post I just wanted to send you a hug and tell you to stay strong! It sounds like have made up your mind to NOT let these Dr's get the better of you. I've always been the same as you... I cry when I get angry or frustrated and I've always hated myself for it. But, once I got it in my head that they are NOT any better, smarter or wiser than me, I was able to finally start getting angry rather than sit there blubbering. I think you just have to finally reach a point where you get so frustrated by all of the BS that you start getting really MAD, which for me was a good thing.
Stay strong and hang in there and as they say, next time he makes you want to cry... picture him naked!  
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'A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand'
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chevygal
Veteran
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 504
Loc: Way down south
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flea
your doctor sounds like the one with a problem. what a jerk. You mention that you go back to see him Monday, Please let us know what takes place and you keep your strength. YOu let him know where the "bears in the buckwheat"
chevygal
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flea
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/17/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Recently moved to Mid-West, bu...
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Thanks for the support! Seriously, it is so neeeded right now. I am part nervous and scared to see him on Monday, but I am also confident and cocky. He thinks I am just a needy, anxiety ridden, helpless person that he controls. Well, not anymore. I keep thinking to myself that his wife must put him in his place all of the time, and because he is such a dork, many, many chicks, just like me and all of my friends must have made fun of him in school or never gave him the time of day in a bar or anything. So he holds resentment and now that he "thinks" of himself as a power holder, you know, the almighty DOCTOR, he feels as though he has a right to intimidate peope, especially people that are vulnerable due to their pain, like myself. After all, he was vulnerable and I am sure other people in more powerful positions were mean to him. oh well!
I swear, I really think that this is the exact scenario. It is payback time and he loves it that I just sit there in cry. That is what I have to keep telling myself, because if I think of him as a total dork (as he is, oh gosh he is so short and ugly!!!!) then I will not have a problem staying strong. I do not need him for medication, or for anything at all and I only wanted to come to the pain clinic to learn new things, not be critized and falsely diagnosed by a doctor (dork) with a complex.
Once again, thanks for the encouragement. To gain confidence for Monday, I pulled out a big crate with all of my pictures in it. They are from 9th grade up until now, and I am 29!! There are SO many and even though I had hoped to put them all in albums, there is no way because there are SO MANY, so I just keep them in the container and pull them out to rumage through every now and again. It helps to look at the picturs from happier times, well, happier in that I was not in any kind of pain, the pain only entered my life last year. I decided to go through these before monday's visit because I just sit there and smile and start to reminisce about all of the fun we had. I really laugh when I see pictures from when my husband and I first started dating. We just celebrated our 8th wedding anniversary, but our 10th anniversary of being together. Yes, he stole my youth. HA HA just kidding!
Anyway, I grew up in Fresno California and from as early as I can remember i helped my dad with his law office. He worked out of the home, so i was able to do several things for him and that was always so cool. My friends were always jealous that I got my first "paycheck at 12 years old. Even though it was from my dad, I was on the payroll and I really did a lot of work. So take that Dr. Rubin, JERK, I was responsible at an early age!!!! Oh and not to sound stuck up but almost all of my friends are just beautiful. I am not trying to say that I was the most popular person on the earth, but high school and college were a blast and I would not have changed one minute of it. So when I go through all of the pictures, and memories I have so many happy memories and emotions that the euphoria alone could get me through monday. So as weird as that sounded, it did work, it just reminded me of who I was beofre this surgery and this 30 pound weight gain due to the surgery, and I also felt proud that I have been able to jog again. I go every night, whether I am really hurting or not and I walk and lightly run. I do not hit the pavement too hard because I know that can be bad for the back. But it feels good to get out there again. I may never be up to running 6 miles again, but I am content with getting up and moving around.
Anyway, sorry moderators, I know I am WAY off topic here, but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone. Not only for the most recent encouragement, but for the continuous kindness, encouragement, and knowledge throughout this past year. Thanks!!
I'll let everyone know what happens on Monday, should be SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Flea
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chevygal
Veteran
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 504
Loc: Way down south
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 YOU GO GIRL!
chevygal
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/03/02
Posts: 1261
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
...IMO, PA's are just that "Assistants", but most think they know way more, than any DR. I don't believe they are even qualified to write narcotic meds, ... Terri
Not so. Several states allow Licensed Midwives, Physician Assistants, and/or Nurse Practitioners to write controlled substances if they have a DEA #, which the DEA usually gives them if they are licensed and it's allowed by their state. The list is on a DEA web site for "alternative practitioners" with a state-by-state list. Some states even allow EMTs to dispense controlled subs on their own authority.
It's more common in the Western and rural states. The state can put limits on what schedule they can write up to or the circumstances under which a scrip is allowed. In some parts of the country, the nearest physician might be 200 miles away.
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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mhip689
Member
Reged: 12/14/01
Posts: 160
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Hang in ther Flea. I think your plan in your earlier post to be strong and keep putting the ball in thier court is the best. Stick with it and you will make it through. I have recalled some of your posts and you have always been helpfull so I felt compelled to respond. Good Luck.
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Daycamp72
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 289
Loc: Tara
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Keep on keepin' on, Flea!
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guitardude
Old Hand
Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 421
Loc: midwest
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When I first moved to this state I lived in the southern part and was seeing a chiropractor for my long standing back and neck problems. Since he couldn't prescribe anything, when my back got real bad I would go to the emergency room (mistake I know) anyway, there was a doctor there who was a real jerk and didn't like me anyway. It started one time when I had broke a rib and he told me he wanted to get xrays of them to be sure. I don't have insurance, but I have had busted ribs before and know there is nothing they can do for them so I asked the Dr. "Dr, if it is broke, there isn't anything you can do for it is there?" He said no not realy so I said,"since there is nothing you can do for it, can I skip the $75.00 x-ray since I know it's hurt and you know it's hurt." This just really pissed him off for some reason and he was a jerk to me from that day foreward. Never prescribed me anything stronger than naproxen and flexeril for my back. One day I went there hoping he wouldn't be the DR. on call in desperation cause my back was to messed up for my chiropractor to even touch it. I even had to be wheelchaired in! Well of course, my "buddy" was on duty and after looking over my chart and shaking his head a few times said "ok we're gonna give you the usual Naproxen and Flexeril" I told him that those meds never work and could he please make an exception as I really hurt. He said "well, they must work, you never came back last time I gave them" I was so fed up with this guy and so mad I actually exploded on him. I am not a violent man by nature but being in pain day after day was wearing me down. I told him the reason I didn't come back was because I figured it was a waist of money and told him I didn't like him cause he was a pompous self ritous son of a bitch and that if I ever saw him walking down the street I was gonna run up to him and crack a kneecap and then give him two aspirin. Not the smartest move I admit. He was writing furiously in my chart and I never got another pain pill prescribed out of that hospital again, but Best if kept off the board it sure felt good telling that jerk what I thought. Now I live in a different part of the state and have a decent doctor, but I can sympathize with you all on these best if kept off board . All I can suggest is find another doctor, turn in the PA, whatever but don't let em push you till you explode like I did. You have a right to medical treatment. I gotta wonder about a doctor who wont give a cancer patient more than 3 vics a day anyway...... just my two cents.... be well everyone
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"once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
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Daycamp72
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 289
Loc: Tara
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Flea: I know we're talking physician's assistants here, but yours and Marnie's posts reminded me of this pharmacist that works at my fav mom and pop drugstore in this SMALL town. I LOVE the guy who owns it and the other lady pharmacist is great, but this cow is RUDE. Another lady who works there said they have complaints about her all the time.
First time she insulted me was when my gyno prescribed me about 30 Vicoprofen along with some other stuff. When she looked at the Vico prescription, she said, "Dr. Jones' writing is ALWAYS bad, but today it's unusually terrible - hmmmmmmm, this IS odd!" At first, it went over my head, but then it HIT me and I think I turned RED with anger. Heavens no, I did NOT write my own rx!
THEN I went through cancer surgery and treatment for 18 months and used my ONE pharmacy, as usual. The Best Kept Off the Board woman asked me, in front of customers; some who I knew, "are you getting ANOTHER procedure? You sure take a LOT of Percocet. Um, Hummmm".
This week, I finally went to a PM doc and took my scripts in to be filled and SHE was there. When she filled my script for the 90 Vicoden, she said, LOUD and CLEAR, "you'd better be careful with these.....ESPECIALLY YOU!" I almost jumped over the counter and strangled her.
I finally did cry in my car. I don't know WHY I take this from her, either. I'm NOT a pushover in real life. I can see why Flea and Marnie feel the way they do, too.
One day, I'm gonna tell the owner about this woman, but from what I hear, it's being done ALL the time.
SO, one day, I might just tell off that woman........ONE day.
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flea
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/17/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Recently moved to Mid-West, bu...
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Daycamp - -
There is no way you should be treated like this. Seriously! Cut the cord and find a new pharmacy. Even if that means having your prescriptions filled somewhere online, (of course if your insurance will cover it). If not, maybe there is a Wal-Mart somewhere around there. There always seems to be a Wal-Mart within 30 miles of every living person in this country. I might be a little off there, but it sure seems like it! Or maybe you can have your doctor(s) call in your prescription to the nearest big chain around there. Many of the big chains (including most Wal-Marts, I swear I do not have any stock in Wal-Mart!!) will allow their customers to call in and pay with a credit card and they will drop your meds in the mail. Often times there is no charge for this service. Especially if you live quite a distance from the store.
Maybe even contact the pharmacy manager from one of these big chains and explain your predicament. You would not have to go into great detail, as in explaining that you are on narcotics and how this mean lady makes comments about you TO you, in front of other customers. Oh my gosh, just putting it like that is crazy. REALLY! This lady has some nerve. Anyway, all you have to say is you feel more comfortable having your medications filled at PLACE STOR NAME HERE because there have been a few occasions that you left your old pharmacy a little confused about the medication you had just picked up, even after you had asked INSERT NAME OF MEAN LADY HERE even though you politely asked if you could take this new medication with your other prescription (I am just making this up). Well you were very confused about her answer because she contradicted herself when she was giving the answer, which scared you. So you decided just to call the new pharmacy when you got home. Not only was this new pharmacist knowledgeable, and patient, she was also very discreet and understood the complexity of the several meds you were on, and how important it was that you took them correctly.
Tada, thats it. You get your little revenge on mean ugly lady, and you get a new pharmacy. The best part is that the manger of the new pharmacy will always remember you because you were the one that complimented her pharmacists. So you will probably always be looked after. Seriously, you have no idea how a little compliment can get you the top of the food chain.
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.I know you said you liked the owner of this little store very much, as well as the other pharmacist that works there, but if you have already talked to them about this particular person, and the owner knows about your complaint as well as the other complaints being made about this mean spirited, unprofessional woman then the respect you have given them is not being reciprocated. Right? She made you cry, why in the world would a person like this be allowed to have any communication with customers. She should be in a back room stocking boxes, away from people. Or the amount of interaction she has with customers should be VERY limited!!!!!! Yes, she needs to be booted down in job status, just a teeny bit. Pharmacist or not, the most she should be able to say to any customer is Would you like fries with that, and that should only be in the drive thru. Little ear phones is that woman should be allowed to touch. 
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Flea
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