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Other Related Topics >> Laws, Regulations, and Enforcement

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daddyj
Board Addict


Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 367
Employment Drug test, using OP
      #58531 - 02/18/03 11:44 AM

Quote:

PS, I take a lot of herbs and have heard that some of those will show up as narcotics. Can anyone comment about that. Maybe someone who is an expert can tell us what ERRORS are common in the drug test process.

Thanks!




Here is a link with a good sized list of known false positive producers.
http://www.privatedrugtest.com/falsepositive.html

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Rorer714
Newbie


Reged: 07/15/02
Posts: 28
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: daddyj]
      #58540 - 02/18/03 12:55 PM

I am hoping to get a new job. I found out that they use the hair test which shows use for up to six months.

Finding those records may not be that easy besides remembering all those drugs that can cause a false positive,

The last time I had a urine screen I printed up a three column table showing everything that I took. Their comment was that was, "quite a list". I said "better t be safe than sorry.!!!" Passed that test with no problem.

Bill917.

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Rorer714


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lovepink
Goddess


Reged: 01/01/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: NYC Metro Area
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Rorer714]
      #58554 - 02/18/03 01:51 PM

Wow, I was under the impression that drugs/meds could be detected in a hair test for as long as the hair that was present when the meds were taken remains on the head.

For example (& I'm throwing guesses out as to hair growth time, etc), I'm guessing my hair from scalp down is about 18 inches long (mid-back)...if my hair growth is 2 inches per month and I get 2 inches trimmed off every 3 months it would take me ALOT longer than 6 months to lose the hair that contains med residue within.

Does anyone know definitively if meds are only detectable for 6 months in hair? That would be great.

Bill917, you could always have your hair cut really short (almost military-style) - the little growth left should only be from the last couple of months, max. which should be easier for you to come up with a list of meds for...just a thought. I wish you the best of luck.

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Lovepink

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Princess
Journeyman


Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 91
Loc: So Cal
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: lovepink]
      #58555 - 02/18/03 01:56 PM

My mom is a nurse and she says it stays in your head forever.

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fluffyfeller
Old Hand


Reged: 08/25/02
Posts: 415
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Princess]
      #58642 - 02/18/03 05:38 PM

Wow - this is incredible. This probably isn't the proper forum, but I had no idea you could tell med usage by hair samples. I guess I'm really behind the times. Amazing.

I'm really curious. What do they do - just cut off a snip of hair and analyze it? If this is so easy (I'm not being sarcastic or anything like that, just curious), why don't doctors and hospitals just analyze a piece of hair instead of taking urine samples or blood screens or other tests which make people uncomfortable. Surely if meds can be detected this way, some diseases could be too? I know I hate blood tests - they make me very dizzy and sick to my stomach. A snip of hair would be nothing. This would seem to be a great diagnostic tool and spare the patient from more invasive tests.

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lovepink
Goddess


Reged: 01/01/02
Posts: 1476
Loc: NYC Metro Area
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Princess]
      #58644 - 02/18/03 05:47 PM

Princess, the way I read your post it looks like you mean it stays in your scalp (head) forever as in...forever? If I shaved my head (scary thought) and didn't let another med touch my lips for 10 years everything could still be detected in a hair drug test? Even say, stupid things I did when I was younger? Or does it stay in the hair forever? Inquiring minds REALLY want to know now.
Thanks

Fluffy - I'm under the impression that a strand or two actually gets plucked out by the root - or so thats how it goes in the movies....

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Lovepink

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tem33
Enthusiast


Reged: 01/08/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Southern USA
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: fluffyfeller]
      #58683 - 02/18/03 08:12 PM

Fluffy, to answer you question regarding why hair follicle tests aren't more often than urine or blood test for drugs is two main reasons: cost and time. A hair follicle test can cost anywhere from $150 - $250 (or more) depending on the lab and takes longer to result. Whereas a urine drug screen can be tested with a dipstick (most basic) and resulted in a matter of minutes and can cost as little as $15. Blood tests are more expensive than urine tests and less than hair tests.

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gwb
Member


Reged: 08/19/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Fl
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: lovepink]
      #58702 - 02/18/03 09:07 PM

Lovepink:
It is my understanding from some friends in another chem lab section from mine that about 90-120 days is the max on a hair test.Beyond that and the results split if you will-pun intended.
gwb

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rvjayoung
Journeyman


Reged: 12/27/01
Posts: 82
Loc: Calif.
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: gwb]
      #58706 - 02/18/03 09:46 PM

I was curious whether Benzos can be distguisted one from another? Say you take Xanax, but put down that you are taking klonopin (which you have a script for). Can the tests tell the difference?

Calling on the experts.



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Rorer714
Newbie


Reged: 07/15/02
Posts: 28
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: lovepink]
      #58761 - 02/19/03 01:57 PM

Bill917, you could always have your hair cut really short (almost military-style) - the little growth left should only be from the last couple of months, max. which should be easier for you to come up with a list of meds for...just a thought. I wish you the best of luck.




Good thought, but does not work. People try that trick. They only need a few milimeters of hair and there are a lot of places on your body that they can get the hair.

A good search on the Internet has tons of info.
Try Google using: "drug testing" +hair -urine

Regards,
Bill917

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Rorer714


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gwb
Member


Reged: 08/19/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Fl
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: rvjayoung]
      #58867 - 02/19/03 10:43 PM

By using nuclear magnetic resonance any known compound in a computer database for the nmr is run against a control and the test.So if a company wants to spend the dough you can id the substance down to manufacturer.I did clinical rotations for a a coroner that got one, drug tox screens began to show how much of anything was in anyone brought through the office.

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gwb
Member


Reged: 08/19/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Fl
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: rvjayoung]
      #59227 - 02/21/03 07:03 PM

They can be distinguished by the machine, of course money is always a factor.Here is one page that explains how its done-we use a 300Mhz machine- this one is a good one.
http://redpoll.pharmacy.ualberta.ca/325/Pharm325NMR_4.pdf Go to the last page.

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Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Edited by gwb (02/21/03 07:36 PM)


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ditto
Member


Reged: 08/17/02
Posts: 102
Loc: Outer Space
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: gwb]
      #59265 - 02/21/03 09:43 PM

Specific benzos can be detected in a blood screen. I know this from personal experience. I was in a car accident and the police officer asked if I take any medication. I told him I took Ativan (he did not ask when I took it - the night before at bedtime). I got hauled off to jail and arrested for driving under the influence of prescription meds. They did a full drug and alcohol screen on me and ordered a specific test and it came out positive for lorazepam (Ativan). It did not even tell the amount of Ativan in my system, just said POSITIVE. I even produced a legal script for the med and there was still no way for me to fight the charges. Just a warning to all of you..If I had not been honest with the police officer and told him I take a prescription med, I would have never been arrested, because they do not routinely test for benzos, they had to order a special kit just to test for the Ativan...I learned a lesson from that one...Honesty IS NOT ALWAYS the best policy....take care....ditto Oh BTW, I am a little bitter so pardon me, but as part of my sentence I have to attend a 3 month alcohol awareness class, which will cost me $500. My BAC was 0.00!!!!

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gwb
Member


Reged: 08/19/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Fl
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: ditto]
      #59271 - 02/21/03 10:59 PM

I would be bitter too.I have tested 3 times at work,not by coppers,I justed looked at my state's laws and we do about the same.Sorry it happened to you.
gwb

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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl


Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Rorer714]
      #59615 - 02/23/03 03:27 PM

I was going to have a hair test one time to test for toxins, metals, etc. and was told it wouldn't work on me because I highlight my hair. I was disappointed at the time but it was very expensive. Just FYI.....

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gwb
Member


Reged: 08/19/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Fl
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Sky_Queen]
      #59621 - 02/23/03 03:42 PM

Metals and magnets.I saw a guy lose a filling in an old MRI mainly due to the the cooled magnets.I think alot of tints have metals that interfere with the magnetic imaging. Sorry.
Did you try HPLC-High Performance Liquid Chromatography.Cheaper and no Ph.D. needed to interpret results. Check these guys out for NMR rates. http://www.process-nmr.com/
gwb


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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl


Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: gwb]
      #59693 - 02/23/03 09:40 PM

Excellent info!!! Thanks much

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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl


Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: daddyj]
      #59905 - 02/24/03 09:57 PM

So does this mean the Seinfeld show where Elaine kept testing positive for Opium because she was eating poppy seed muffins is bogus? LOL

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samson
Stranger


Reged: 07/01/02
Posts: 17
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Sky_Queen]
      #65178 - 03/20/03 07:55 PM

If it is a hair test, get some shampoo called "Aloe-rid" made by Nexus. It is formulated to cleanse your hair of "chemical residue." Many good hair saloons have Nexus products, and some stock the aloe-rid. However, you may want to check online. If it is a urine test, drink a lot of water or iced tea for a couple of days prior to the test, then get some "Test Pure", "Test Clear" or a similar product that you drink. It is usually a 16 or 20 oz bottle you drink at least one hour prior to the test, and is effective for 5 hours. Also, check out the NORML home page on drug testing, erowid also has some decent info. As far as the ability to tell one benzo from another benzo, many of the tests don't even check for benzo's. For instance the DOT (department of transportation) tests which are required for all pilots, boat captains, truck drivers, and other persons who are considered to be "safety sensative" personnel do not test for benzos. They do a 5 panel test which just checks for THC, Cocaine, PCP, Opiates, and Amphetamines. On a 7 panel test they normally do the original 5 from the DOT test, but add barbituates and benzos. There are also some employers who test for all kinds of different prescription and illegal drugs including propoxyphene (darvon), carisprodal (soma), and almost anything you can think of, including mescaline and MDMA. If you test positive for anything a medical review officer will call you to ask if you are taking any prescriptions that would cause a positive, if you have a valid script for whatever class you are positive for, the test will be reported as a negative. Whatever you do, do not try to add an adulterant to a urine drug screen sample. They do a test for these. Some of the old adulterants used were visine, soap, and there are some vials of powder sold that you put in your sample that are supposed to cleanse the sample. However, you will get busted for this. The most effective thing you can do is flush your system with as much water, or a diaretic like tea (or lasix if you can get some) to dilute your sample. Just make sure you take some vitamen B and a creatine supplement because the lab checks for samples that are too diluted. If you are too diluted, it will not be reported as a positive for anything, they will just make you re-test.

As far as the hair test info goes, they normally only check the first 1 and 1/2 - 2 inches of your hair, which would basically be anything that you have done in the past 90 - 120 days. (assuming your hair grows at the typical 1/2 inch per month). There may be another good shampoo to use that has come out in the past couple of years, but the Nexus Aloe-rid used to be the best stuff to use.

I used to work for a company that was a 3rd party administrator for workplace drug testing. While I couldn't stand working in a field that I am absolutely opposed to for various reasons, I did learn valuable information about work place drug testing.

The most important thing is what type of prescription (substance) you have been taking, and the length of time you have been taking it. Everything has different lengths of time that it stays in your system. For example, cocaine and amphetamines are only going to show up in a urine test for a couple of days, but THC and certain benzos can be detected for a matter of weeks. Do a google search and you should be able to find a chart of the detection times for various substances. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.


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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl


Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Texas
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: samson]
      #65179 - 03/20/03 08:21 PM

Wow, that's one of the most informative posts I've ever read! Going to save this one Thanks!!

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tem33
Enthusiast


Reged: 01/08/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Southern USA
Re: Employment Drug test, using OP [Re: Sky_Queen]
      #65295 - 03/21/03 02:45 PM

Shampoos don't work for hair tests because the hair itself is analyzed. The drugs are part of the makeup of the hair if they were taken at the time when it was growing. Shampoos may cleanse residues but the drug metabolites are part of the chemical structure of the hair!!

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