DTZNuff
Board Addict
Reged: 11/16/02
Posts: 312
Loc: B.F.E.
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I agree totally. Our freedoms are being taken away from us at a frightening rate. And the worst part os it, I don't feel any safer than I did two years ago. The question is not if there "is" going to be another terror attack here in this country but "when" and all I can say is that I live in a good part of the country. I know that it sounds terrible to say, but what else can we do. Like Lakjaw said that they issue these terror warnings and it is like they issue them just to frighten people. I feel so helpless to protect my family and really there is not much a person can do. Yes you can stay alert and watch people for suspicious activity. That will only get you so far. Back to the point, our civil liberties are disappearing, and for what? I don't feel any safer. I'm sure that I'm not alone.
It is just a bad world we live in and I don't se it getting any better anytime soon. Sorry DB for the off topic post. I felt like I had to get my two cents in.
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 Serenity Now, Insanity Later!
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 626
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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As for the US not having the manpower. . . etc. . .they don't need a giant conglomerate at the top; they have local, county, state, regional, and then federal agencies. The reports are gathered, passed along, and dealt with, as many a physician who's been threatened with yanking of her/his DEA license will attest. Few of these physicians are "abusive" - they are simply attempting to care for their patients, but are giving up the struggle.
I agree...they are and will set up a system and are starting to set this system up in 17 states...and this whole thing scares me because I do have a good PMDoc but he still will not give me enouph pain meds to keep my pain at bay hence OP...so it bothers me when I read things like this and have to sign a paper at the doc's now for HIPAA...this is so they can do track/doc/insurance and DEA/FBI all through the EDI system. I have read this it's here on the net if you want to find it..there are so many new laws that they are trying to pass and so we need to go to our state reps..scream about this because there is no privacy anymore and we can all be put up on the chopping block..heed the warning about this tracking system..it is going to be implamented soon..soon as they pass legislation...as far as them not haveing the manpower...they don't need it...just a computer..Boo
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living with pain is not living at all.  Boo
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lakjaw
Veteran
Reged: 11/22/02
Posts: 545
Loc: Planet Zartran
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I'm not sure what offices may have you signing now, but do remember that you have the right to refuse to sign away your rights. You and your physician need to discuss trust issues, as well as privacy issues. I'm sure they don't like it any more than you do, but too often many of us think we "have" to sign on the line when, in reality, we do not. Dissent starts with us, extends to our representatives, and then on up the line.
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When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Usually,that individual is crazy.
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toky20
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/17/02
Posts: 1347
Loc: Windy Place
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If I'd refused to sign the "agreement" that my pain doctor put in front of me, I would not be receiving treatment at all. There's really not much of a choice in many situations.
Take Care,
Toky
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baddad56
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 281
Loc: Midwest
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nmbound. I for one do not double dip. I have to use OP's for the simple reason that my regular doc's will not prescribe opiates for long term relief. My medical records are not shoddy. I was born crippled, I did not ask for it. Not all members here are rec users or abusers. Don't take this wrong, I don't want to offend.
IMO I don't feel the goverment has ANY business with a person's medical records. Insurance companys are going too far also. I just my quarterly drug summary. It listed all the meds that I was prescribed. They did not pay for the drugs as they were inexpensive and I paid in cash. Why was the info sent to them in the first place I wonder?
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nmbound
Stranger
Reged: 11/29/02
Posts: 22
Loc: Texas
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I keep seeing people say that "they" have a databse and they can watch you from a helocopter etc...
Who the heck is they..
Some states are creating databases now. True..Pharmacy A notices Pharmacy X has a customer who has 2 precriptions running with different doctors.. IMO the government is not looking for the people who have some Tylenol 3 and some Ultram and soma. The databases were designed to find the people who have several users, that may be doctor hopping to a point that this "patient" is selling on the streets or is a serious 15 pill a day habit.
As for the US not having the manpower. . . etc. . .they don't need a giant conglomerate at the top; they have local, county, state, regional, and then federal agencies. The reports are gathered, passed along, and dealt with, as many a physician who's been threatened with yanking of her/his DEA license will attest.
Quote:
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Hydro7623
Stranger
Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 8
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Betty, I saw you mentioned the DEA & their EDI system & it relating to signing for controlled substances. What is this system and how do I find more info about it?
Sincerely,
Hydro
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Hydro7623
Stranger
Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 8
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Yep, that's doubling up 2 different meds, but both Schedule III's. And, it's illegal, although you're probably O.K. if you don't do it again and it wasn't the same Pharmacy.
Hydro
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Hydro7623
Stranger
Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 8
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Sly-
Is this just for certain states? Where is this "reliable info", I would be interested in reading it. I don't think that's legal, and I'm not sure the ACLU wouldn't love to use that system for target practice.
Hydro
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Harry
Newbie
Reged: 10/16/02
Posts: 29
Loc: NE
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About 22 states have passed some form of a "Controlled Substances Monitoring" bill which creates a database of the doctor prescribing the med, the customer and the pharmacy where it is dispensed. "Double Dipping" is also referred to as - "Doctor Shopping" and many states have laws making this illegal - which can be a good thing to stop abuse for those who need pain meds
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baddad56
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/24/02
Posts: 281
Loc: Midwest
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THEY are law enforcement. Fed, local it doesn't matter. Here's a few links with a little info. I remember hearing about this stuff when Reagen was still pres.
INFO
More Info
The cops must be pretty scared of those mean ole pot plants. Why else are they using a Marine Attack Cobra?
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arabhorse
Old Hand
Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 422
Loc: Deserts of Arabia, band of mar...
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Quote:
Pharmacy A notices Pharmacy X has a customer who has 2 precriptions running with different doctors.. IMO the government is not looking for the people who have some Tylenol 3 and some Ultram and soma. The databases were designed to find the people who have several users, that may be doctor hopping to a point that this "patient" is selling on the streets or is a serious 15 pill a day habit.
That is how it is supposed to work in theory, but we all know once these laws/databases and such get implemented they become just another tool of intimidation in the hands of "Drug"-enforcement zealots. The programs are designed to sound benign and sensible so that they can be sold to the legislative bodies, framed a certain way for the news media, and ultimately digested by a public conditioned to accept these excuses for freedom-suppressing, paternalistic mechanisms of control. Real people in real pain are going to be caused even more pain, even persecuted by this system.
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Love your country--fear your government.
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Boobetty
Veteran
Reged: 12/30/01
Posts: 626
Loc: The windy City...Boo:)
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Hi..Hydro..here are a few interesting sites to look at...
www.hipaaplus.com/abouthippa.htm
www.painandthelaw.org/
EDI is a faxing system that is done through the pluck of a keyboad letter....it's quick and easy...takes all of three to five minutes...boo
This is just freaking me out for sure...Tokyo..your right..my PMD would just say then I can't treat you.
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living with pain is not living at all. Boo
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LumbarSpasm
Silent Chaos
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 1538
Loc: USA
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Harry could you please post a link to this info?
I know the number of states that monitor is increasing.
I'd like to see your reference on this.
Thank you,
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LumbarSpasm
Or just a pain in the butt?!
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quincy
Board Addict
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 333
Loc: pacific northwest
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This is scary, but if you use insurance, your prescription history is being monitored, both at the pharmacy and the insurance company. I think, however, unless you are going way out of line with 8 different prescriptions for hydro or schedule 2's, that you won't be bothered much. I know that in my pharmacy records it shows that I received 10 vicoden from ER doc and then 3 days later another script from my PCP. Usually the pharmacies won't mention stuff like that. Plus I have been to so many different doctors and specialists over the years, that my history must look questionable. However, only two or three pharmacists have ever said anything to me. I think it depends on if you have a nosy pharmacist or health plan. It only takes one questioning person to start the ball rolling against you when you are double dipping. The nazi pharmacist calls the doc, they interrogate you, then you are "red flagged" as a drug seeker. It happens to people whether they are truly "doctor shopping" or not. I think that legitimate pain patients often have to see several doctors before they will find one that will treat their pain. I guess if this is doctor shopping, then I am guilty. But a lot of us do, and a lot of us probably have prescriptions from different docs (although not concurrently) I think they are going after real pain patients as well as addicts, and that is a shame. It looks like we all have to suffer because of a few bad apples (and Bushes)
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cody
Stranger
Reged: 07/11/02
Posts: 18
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A few years back I bought some life insurance and had to remember in detail all the medicines prescribed within the last three years. My insurance agent told me that any mispellings or missed medications could be verified through some national insurance databank. All insurance companies who have access to this databank also input all of your information voluntarily to it. I was so shocked that such a databank was real. He replied that it is very real, however the insurance companies don't advertise that it exists.
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Spinerval
Member
Reged: 04/20/02
Posts: 192
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Alright, alright, aren't we all suffering enough here w/physical pain and the emotional anxiety such pain creates? Yeah, yeah, yeah the gov't and its monstrous data banks have been able to keep tabs on our actions for years. But here's what I believe: 1) I knew a DEA officer (from college) who has since been deployed to one of those nasty military bases abroad. He and his colleagues were SO overrun with the big guys (dealers bringing the stuff into this country in quantity) that he laughed about the prospect of rounding up people-in-pain using schedule 3 meds for their own personal needs. Now, that many cops etc. have been called in from the reserves, the LE agencies have even fewer people to do the work.There's way too many of us...and most of us don't post on these boards. 2) The local gov'ts never got the Bush-promised $$$ for front-line terrorist intervention. In other words, they're using their resources not to chase us but rather to make sure the giant bank w/daycare ctr. doesn't get blown up in their city. Relax. We all have enough to worry about. One day at a time, and please, "gather ye rosebuds while ye may." Oh, and think hard about how you vote next time. Ashcroft and Bush's nominees for judicial positions are the scary ones.
Val
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babygabey
Journeyman
Reged: 01/08/03
Posts: 91
Loc: The Sunny State
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so if you are paying cash with OP's is there a way to trace the prescriptions? should I worry about this? My reg. Doc only gives me a small amount of the pain killers I need and of course the lowest potency. So If I have an online OP am I double dipping? If my reg. Doc asks if I need a prescription of course I am not going to say no. This is all very frightening to be quite honest. I would rather not have pain than to have to deal with all the worry and stress that is attached to getting decent relief.
Oh and I do not think Bush is to blame here. For the majority of his presidency he has had to deal with 9/11 cleanup and terrorist prevention and I am sure that picking up pain patients is at the bottom if not off of his list all together. I am glad we finally have a President who will stand up to these terroroist rings and say enough is enough. Not just drop one bomb and call it a day like clinton did. I know I will probably get alot of flack for this statement. But I am sure that anyone who lost a loved one on 9/11 would agree with me!
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onyourmark2
Newbie
Reged: 11/02/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Midwest
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Just thought I could add my 2cents regarding the health insurance companies.... I work for one, and that is the reason I use OP's. If they "decide" you are using too many meds, they can and do notify pharmacies, physicians, etc. If it is worker's comp... it's possible (although in most cases illegal) that they will notify your employer as well. My own physician has warned me of this as well. I have a legitimate painful condition, and I am forced to use an OP to keep my records confidential!
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quincy
Board Addict
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 333
Loc: pacific northwest
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Technically receiving meds from both OPs and your doctor is double dipping. (although most of us wouldn't turn down drugs from the doc either) If you pay cash I think you would decrease the risk of being caught double dipping, but your name would still be in the computer with what you were prescribed. Honestly, I don't think any of us would admit to our doctors that we use OPs. My God, I wonder what my doctor would say if she knew I just got 100 hydros from an OP...But of course this is against the law so Im just being hypothetical.
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Sky_Queen
Fly Girl
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 1962
Loc: Texas
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I say what she doesn't know won't hurt her
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geckogecko
Board Addict
Reged: 03/03/02
Posts: 334
Loc: New York, NY
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about feeding a habit or treating a medical condition; I am not ashamed to say that after years of narcotic treatment for pain, I am completely addicted to them. I have not only pain to worry about when i run out of meds, but wd's as well. Sometimes I am not even sure which problem is worse; and it's not easy. Though i am not one of the 'bad apples' that ruins trust and access for others with pain, i think plenty of board members here would be terrified to admit they are addicted due to the bad rap given to dependence here; we are all in the same boat, and double-dipping occurs when tolerance climbs past 90 a month--this happens naturally to anyone who has taken painkillers for a long time, so beating the 'addicts' down is not always the same as resenting the rec users that might be around. I think double-dipping is not safe, nor is it ethical. i have never been rich enough to do it myself, but i have an understanding as to why it happens. and who am i to judge, or to even comprehend the reasons they might have for needing more meds?
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mello
Old Hand
Reged: 11/02/02
Posts: 478
Loc: USA
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I get tramadol from my doctor and hydro from an OP....never thought about it, but I guess I'm double dipping as well. I also order tramadol from healthcarepharma but that's mostly for my dad. Guess I should start ordering for myself to be on the safe side.
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