sddml13
Journeyman
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 58
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agreed lisangel...glad to hear everything worked out in the long run, especially in your situation.
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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Hi Jethro,
Doctor Shopping, as far as the law is concerned, only has to do with getting scheduled medication from more than one doctor. Your allowed to see as many doctors as you want for diagnosis.
B.
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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I really don't understand why you are turning this around on me. I only answered the question that was posted. And added links to find information.
Being informed is a good thing.
And, no, I no longer need to buy anything online. I did at one time, but I learned very quickly that what is available online is not adaquate for my needs. I do help other people who do need to use OP's though.
I also am not judging anyone for doing what they have to do. What I posted were not my opinions. I posted facts and links to back up that information.
What is it that I did wrong here? It almost sounds like you want someone to say it is ok to DD/DS. No one can say that. People have to do what they need to to get through the day. But, it doesn't make it legal. Double Dipping is not legal in any situation. ANd that is not my opinion.
I apologize for even responding to this thread. It is a very difficult topic to discuss without someone getting offended. That was not my intention. I just tried to answer the question.
Can someone please post some documentation that states DD'ing/Doctor Shopping is legal?
B.
ps. No matter what you want to believe as far as the law, it is against the rules here to admit to double dipping. so. please don't and if you did, delete it. I don't want anyone getting intotrouble here because of something I posted. if anyone else wants to discus this with me, please do it by PM.
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lisangel
Banned: telling members how to post. Only moderators can do that!
Reged: 09/24/02
Posts: 89
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sorry about the reaction....i was accused of that once as i stated previously, but the other doctor was aware all along of the first one, and i didnt even have a script to fill from the first one, but too many people now seem to think that getting a second opinion without telling your first doctor is illegal, it most definitely is not if the second doctor at least is aware of the first.
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maximumc27
Member
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 142
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BENTON..obviously the people getting offended are the ones that are DD and want someone to pat them on the shoulder and tell them it is o.k. so they can feel good about what they do. Dont worry about it, we all know it is wrong and they will get busted eventually
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Richieboy67
Journeyman
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 71
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I don't think I read any posts that were expressing someone being "Offended".....
What I got from reading these posts was a difference in opinion is all. I think that double dipping is another way to abuse something good and I do not agree with it.. but there are exeptions in everything and that is all I am saying..
maximum-- Lets not forget that purchasing from an op in itself is illegal supposedly...
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maximumc27
Member
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 142
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you heard wrong richyboy.. purchasing from IOP's are illegal
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Richieboy67
Journeyman
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 71
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Ok-- So it's legal to get a script filled online but lets just say that it is on the verge of being ilegal.. especially NROP's etc... I meant nrop's...
am I right???
If I was wrong I stand corrected
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Richieboy67
Journeyman
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 71
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OK-- I'm not trying to argue. I just like to debate sometimes!! LOL
I can see both sides of this arguement but I do not agree with doing anything that brings negativeness to this system that helps those of us with pain....
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effie1
Member
Reged: 11/03/04
Posts: 107
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yes, IOP's and NROP's are illegal but for the time being ROP's are legal but on a fine line and those that are here for the long haul will revise as the guidelines change. Maybe even one day webcams so face to face persay consultations can take place or at least the ID pic and you can be verfied as one and the same via webcam.
Far as DDing, it is illegal but again if involving a regular doc can be complicated. I have a specialist as well as a pcp that treats my consition jointly. I have had my specialist prescribe hydro 5 and it was not strong enough and due to it being impossible to get into the specialists office quickly my pcp has prescribed a stronger hydro and i filled at the same pharmacy and the pharmacist said it was alright to fill the new script within 2 days of the first one cause it was for a stronger pain med. My pharmacist said this happens frequently either the pain med was not strong enough or a entirely different pain med is added for breakthrough pain. Both my docs fax and share my med records and hospital visits so they are aware of what each other is doing. so this was not doctor shopping or dd but could be considered as such by a person not knowing the circumstances. I fully think that it could send up a red flag to the dea but not my pharmacist as he is aware of my consition and said it is fine. If and when it raised a flag and my doctors were consulted by them it would be dropped as they are aware of each other, coordinate my meds and the pharmacist also is aware when this occurs. In my case it is usually involving dilaudid or mepergan added for breakthrough pain.
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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Your case would not be considered Doctor Shoppong or Double Dipping because both doctors are informed of what you are doing.
__________________________________________________
If someone were to get a weaker medication from a doctor and then go to another doctor right after and get a script for something stronger it wouldn't necessarily be considered DD'ing.
If someone goes to a doctor and they get a prescription and they don't feel it is strong enough and go to another doctor to get something stronger, as long as the doctor is informed of what you are doing, it wouldn't be considered DD'ing. However, you can't go back to the first doctor in a month for more of the weaker medication. You have to stick with one. Best bet would be to inform the first doctor that you found more appropriate treatment with another doctor and will not be using his services any longer.
There are many situations where DD'ing isn't cut and dry. Just be sure that what you are doing is legal. And most people know if what they are doing is or isn't legal.
The best way to stay legal is to always inform any doctor you go to what prescriptions you are taking, all of them. This will keep you out of trouble but more importantly it will keep you from taking medications that may not interact well together, or even dangerous when taken together.
B
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Richieboy67
Journeyman
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 71
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Well Said Benton 
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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Whew! thank you...
B.
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CeeBee
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 214
Loc: garden state
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Hey Benton, I realized that you were only stating facts and the legality of them, not neccessarily your opinion.
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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Thanks...B 
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 716
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
This "doctor shopping" business is the worst abuse of power in the drug war. Everyone doctor shops. If you go to a doctor for a broken finger, and he want to get an PET scan of your brain; you are going to go find another doctor: DOCTOR SHOPPING! What, or we supposed to stay with the first doctor we go to, regardless of his effectiveness? Not me. I'm a DOCTOR SHOPPER!
I have to agree with this. The whole concept is ridiculous in some ways. After all, health care is a BUSINESS, and we are CONSUMERS. We should be satisfied with the care we are paying for, imo. In my own case, I had about 20 different things wrong with my back at the same time, and my ortho 'doesn't believe in' opiate pain relievers. Unfortunately, the NSAIDs he shoved down my throat did little more than upset my stomach. So, in agony and at the end of my rope, I went back to my PCP and asked for something strong for pain. He prescribed 90 mg. of Avinza/day and referred me to pain manangement. Was this 'doctor shopping', since the so-called bone specialist outright refused to meet my pain needs? I don't think so..and whatever happened to the concept of 'getting a second opinion'? I understand the law that says you cannot get the same script from more than one doc at a time, but this whole 'doctor shopping' thing has me a little perplexed..JMHO
--------------------
Proud Mom of a United States Marine...SEMPER FI!
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Trey_McC
Old Hand
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 414
Loc: Mars
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Doctor shopping is what you should do. Many of them are simply quacks. Like the ones who leave their practices and risk losing their licenses to write online prescriptions.
Even health insurance companies recommend a second opinion. I worked in the health insurance industry for 15 years. If you were a member of our Preferred Provider Organization (PPO) plan and your coverage was 80/20 we would pay 100% for a second opinion.
Trey
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Sbeland223
Stranger
Reged: 02/24/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Massachusetts
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Hi Benton, First of all I'd like to commend you on your DDing/legality posts.I personally found them very informative and well written.
It's unfortunate, that when your only trying to be helpful and answer a question. What happens? Someone doesn't like your answer and now you've been put you on the defensive. Funny how that works!! Especially since you had more than enough proof to back up your information. It doesn't always pay to be helpful...
Good luck to you and keep up your informative posts. Your absolutely right, DDing is DDing and illegal. Like death and taxes, a fact of life.
Susan
Edited by Sbeland223 (02/21/05 10:21 AM)
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effie1
Member
Reged: 11/03/04
Posts: 107
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I think the defination of doctor shopping in this subject is more of the one where you have a condition and go to more than one doctor for that same ondition for the sole purpose of obtaining more pain meds. My case was different and so is others but I think the main defination and debate here must be not going for a second opinion but as we know or have heard people do is they have a bad back and they purposely go to several doctors and get the same scripts over and over. Right Benton?
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JethroMole
Member
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 104
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Yeah - look what happened to Rush Limbaugh! . . . Oh, that's right . . . Nothing happened to Rush Limbaugh! ;-) I guess it helps if Clarence Thomas "officiates" at your wedding or you know Dubya well enough to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom a few nights. Most NROPs don't care about medical records. They don't care who your doctor is. They don't care if you double-dip or if your symptoms are real or all in your head. It's a business to them. Now if you try it at your local CVS you'll be in big trouble I would guess. I'd like to see someone challenge the illegality of "doctor shopping". It's not illegal to see more than one doctor. It's not illegal to *ask* a doctor for anything. Some docs certainly can and do act irresponsibly but is that the patient's fault? This is a huge gray area that I wouldn't allow to keep you up at night. What would worry me is if they re-schedule hydro as a CII drug due to the prevalence of NROPs. I suspect the all-powerful drug companies would have a thing or two to say about that though. Maybe we should all buy stock in Norco? ;-)
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katzdb
Stranger
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 3
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Thanks for the link, Benton. That poor guy in Florida may be the exception that proves the rule; in this case, the rule is not taking anything to extremes. The man in the story filled 200 prescriptions in one year for 18,000 pain pills, which would probably get a lot of people's attention.
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nici
Stranger
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 17
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I have A question about double dipping.I ordered from ocean got 60 norco,directions from dr.M say one evryday,that is not enough for my pain.If I order from A different nrop at 30 days instead of 60 days is that double dipping? I know I can make this rx last 30days but noway 60 days.thanks for any answers on this.
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maximumc27
Member
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 142
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They let you re-order every 25 days. I tried to re-order early and it gives you a cancellation email saying to early try again at...then a certain date is given
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Firefairy
Member
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 156
Loc: Mississippi
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I have not posted in ages, came on to decide if I am staying with the ROP I have been with, and hit these threads on DD.
I have recently had two situations arise that show that "Double Dipping" can be interpeted differently by different people. One is described below.
My GP gives me 1 5 mg Valium per night to sleep. My OB/GYN wanted me to take 3 5 mg Valium per day, for one month, due to a cancer scare that had me a nervous wreck. The pharmacist refused to allow the GP to change the dosage on his script, write me a new script, or make any changes untill after the two weeks remaining on that particular fill was up. He did, however, allow the OB/GYN to write me a script for an additional two a day for one month. I asked them why we had to do it that way, was it not illegal to receive the same medication from two doctors at the same time. They told me no, not if it was for different reasons, and both doctors were aware of the other, and the pharmacist spoke to both and contacted the insurance company. OKKKKAAAY.
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Benton
Journeyman
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Miami FL
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Quote:
both doctors were aware of the other
You haven't said anything new here. This is the only thing that makes it legal. Both doctors knowing. If you had filled one without the other doctor knowing about it, it would absolutely be illegal.
B
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Firefairy
Member
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 156
Loc: Mississippi
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I just found it amusing that the pharmacy would not fill a new script from the original doctor, even though he called them and put it in writing that he needed to change the dosage. But they thought nothing of filling a new different script, overlapping the first, for the same med. This is in a county where you can not buy more than one pack of Sudefed per month per store. (and only four stores carry it).
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lanaa
Stranger
Reged: 02/17/05
Posts: 3
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I have a question, Lets say you order 60 -10/325 from nrop1 with Dr.Kavorkion name on it 4 days later you order same from nrop2 with Dr.K. on that script also and then 5 days later you order same from nrop3 with good old Dr. K..And you get them all. Is this DD or TD or do they give a s%it? Lanaa
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fdafda
Journeyman
Reged: 01/18/05
Posts: 89
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Interesting post Lanaa...What does everyone else think?
In my opinion, the most common result of this type of ordering would that you would be banned by the pharmacy filling the orders. Your name would pop up multiple times in the computer and they would simply refuse to ship any meds to you ever again.
I would, however, venture to say that if this happened it would be legal because the same doc wrote the script.
But I would also venture to say that a court of law would probably find something wrong with at least one of the scripts and therefore declare it illegal.
As far as I am concerned, all NROP's are quasi-legal. It seems there are some good ones and some bad ones. At 60mgs a day that is quite a dosage although I'm sure there are some pain sufferers on this board that meet or exceed that.
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Firefairy
Member
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 156
Loc: Mississippi
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From what I have researched, the laws can vary so much that it would depend on many factors, the first one being the location of the doctor, location of the pharmacy, and location of the patient.
Law enforcement and most medical professionals seem to classify "double dipping" and "doctor shopping" as the deliberate usage of different doctors to receive the same medication at the same time for the same diagnosis. So if you went to three different doctors in your home town, within the same week or so, for the same condition/illness, received medication for such, and did not inform each of the others and what they had prescribed, yes, you would be guilty of doctor shopping. Since NROP's are not regulated at this time at federal level it would depend on the local/state laws as to whether someone could be prosecuted.
Just because that may be the legal situation does not necessarily make it right or fair. If the only people allowed to enter the medical professions or work for the DEA were chronic pain sufferers, OP's would not be necessary and no one with legitimate need would be forced to worry about the legal ramifications of ordering painkillers from three highly expensive sources within one month.
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BamaChica
Board Addict
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 312
Loc: AL by way of Cali..culture sho...
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i dont know if they "label" it double dipping but it is considered illegal because the directions on the first scripts bottle will read "take 2 per day"which is intended to be a 30 day supply.if you order again in 1 week,then you have taken these meds "not as directed" & if you re-order than basically you are saying that you do not have a current prescription & therefore it makes you fall under the catergory of fraudulently obtaining a prescription.
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