labmonkey
Stranger
Reged: 07/07/03
Posts: 23
Loc: location
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It's far from the miracle drug its touted as...why else would the feds allow it for narcotic addiction treatment, out of the goodness of their hearts? Before its use as a treatment for addiction, bupe was classified as schedule V! I get migraines, but have never had them at the frequency I have since going on bupe and they are usually induced by allergens, never drugs, until this one. Bupe is made from a different alkaloid(thebaine)of the poppy than the more common opiates/opioids. It stimulates the mu recptor, but not nearly as much as morphine, codeine, etc. But it dissociates more slowly, comparatively, making it a good candidate for preventing withdrawl without much euphoria(though as someone mentioned) it is a pretty good painkiller, apperantly not for headaches though!
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Leroy47
Journeyman
Reged: 05/23/04
Posts: 65
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Hope,
Sorry to be so late with an answer , but I asked my PCP for Sub. and he wrote me a prescription for 30 8mg. 1 every 4-6 hours as needed, w/3 refills. It was approx. $210 per and my ins. would not pay. I noticed no w/d going from 6-7 10/500 lortabs per day, however I did not taper from the sub. like a dumb***!!!
The 3rd day after I ran out of the sub. I was climbing the walls!!! I was too embarrassed to call my doc.(2nd time) so I ended up back @ square one.
It is a miracle drug in my opinion, if directions are followed.
Feel free to PM me.
Ken
Ken
Edited by Leroy47 (08/27/04 02:14 PM)
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hope46
Journeyman
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 92
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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NO PROBLEM! I HAD TO STOP IT COLD TURKEY (NOT BY CHOICE). The first 3-4 days I couldnt tell I'd stopped...it stays it your system a LONG time! Then on the 4-5th day I started feeling w/d's. Nothing like hydrocodone...but still no picnic..Thank goodness my doctor refilled my meds that day..I have no idea how much worse it would have gotten or how long it lasts. I think a slow taper is the way to go...just my 2 cents!-Hope 
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hope46
Journeyman
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 92
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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sorry i forgot to ask...is your pcp on the government list??? I'm assuming yes but feel free to pm me...lot of pcp's use a form of this medicine to treat pain-not addiction.--hope
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Simp
Stranger
Reged: 12/02/03
Posts: 5
Loc: Okla
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Here is a link to some real life Bup stories. These experiences range from hard core to mild usage but they tell it like it is.
http://64.226.201.78/Forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4
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Leroy47
Journeyman
Reged: 05/23/04
Posts: 65
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Hope,
No he was not on the list. I told him my story, he asked me if I got them from his office,and I assured him I did not. He asked me if I wanted to do outpatient, I said yes, and he wrote me a script.I don't think he ever prescribed them before. I read somewhere that any doctor can take an 8 hour course, but I have no idea if that is the case.
Good Luck to all,
Ken
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ReOkie
Board Addict
Reged: 02/20/04
Posts: 360
Loc: Oklahoma
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Maybe we are all very different but I too got the 8mg suboxone and was able to break it apart and make several pills last for weeks. The tems we get from IOP's is just .2mg so the 8mg should last a lot longer than 3 days.
ReOkie
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Remember son, watch out for the big panties!-Al Bundy
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1247
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
Hope, No he was not on the list. I told him my story, he asked me if I got them from his office,and I assured him I did not. He asked me if I wanted to do outpatient, I said yes, and he wrote me a script.I don't think he ever prescribed them before. I read somewhere that any doctor can take an 8 hour course, but I have no idea if that is the case. Good Luck to all, Ken
If he was not on the SAMSHA list then maybe he didn't take the one-day course. I think that doctors who have the special DEA # for outpatient detox/maintenance with Bupe don't have to be listed if they don't want to. Doctors with regular DEA #s can use Subutex and Suboxone off-label for pain, depression, whatever they deem fit. They take a risk, though, when they prescribe anything off-label. In addition to the controlled substance concerns, they need to worry about malpractice. When a doctor prescribes according to the label, it's hard to sue them over the outcome. Not so for off-label prescriptions.
If your doctor prescribed it for opiate dependence without that special DEA # and without being board certified in addiction, he was taking a big risk.
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Your mileage may vary ...
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hope46
Journeyman
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 92
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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TRAMPY,
I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT....PCP'S PRESCRIBE SOME FORM OF THIS MEDICATION FOR PAIN..I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS...BUT I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IN ORDER TO PRESCRIBE SUBOXONE, THEY HAD TO TAKE THAT 8 HOUR COURSE AND GET A SPECIAL # FROM THE DEA....IS THAT CORRECT? I KNOW MY DOCTOR IN NY TOLD ME HE COULD NOT REPLACE MY SUBOXONE IF I LOST THE BOTTLE, OR IF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO IT...(WHICH IT DID) ... HE TOLD ME IT WAS EASIER FOR HIM TO REPLACE A RX FOR A SCHEDULE 2 LIKE OXY THAN TO REPLACE A RX FOR SUBOXONE!!!! HE SAID THE DEA WAS MONITORING THIS DRUG SO CLOSELY THAT HE WAS CONCERNED THEY WOULD PULL HIS (RE WAS REFERRING TO ANYONE WHO PRESCRIBES IT) LICENSE IN A HEARTBEAT IF THEY THOUGHT HE WASN'T FOLLOWING THEIR GUIDELINES TO A "T"! HE SAID THEY WERE BEING RIDICULOUS OVERSEEING IT...AND.. HE SAID IT WAS A SCHEDULE 4 UNTIL A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO--I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THIS!--GOVERNMENT B.S., I SUPPOSE-HOPE
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zippypinhead
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/03
Posts: 30
Loc: West Coast
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Buph has horrible withdrawalls... deperssion, exhaustion being the top two. It's different than the other narcs, not as 'severe' but lasts longer... Read some addiction forums, people who use buph... it's pretty heavy.
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lfi
Stranger
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 9
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Horrible withdrawals? Nope, nope and, uh nope.
For some time I was a pretty regular heroin user. About 200mg a night. Now many of you I read about taking 1 full suboxone for being on a few hydros a day! That would be comfortable. Finding it on the street was very difficult, but when I did, I would need 2 for three days and then be done with wd's. heroin w/d's are absolutely agonizing, and the suboxone make it a lot less so. After the third day I didn't feel great (but having fibromyalgia makes feeling great almost synonamous with being on painkillers) but I was done with withdrawals. So, I can see buprenorphine as perhaps having withdrawls, however if you use it very short term and drink a shitload of water to get your opiods out of your body than I think you'll be okay (I really don't see the need for it for a long period of time - I've quit heroin cold turkey so know what the hell is like without it). Also, taking 5-HTP and Vitamin B-100 (mainly B-12) will help w/d's very much as well!
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nikkicat
Newbie
Reged: 11/30/04
Posts: 38
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I have a question regarding the difference between Temgesic and Buprenorphine. What is the difference? If I am correct the Bup. has something added to prevent injection. I can only find Temgesic and not the Buprenorphine available from the Mexrxonline for $60 for 10 tabs. Does anyone know what strength they are and if it is possible to use the Temgesic for an opiate holiday? Also, is there a records OP that offers it? I know that is a long shot!I need to lower the amount of hydrocodone I take a day and my husband's insurance will not be available to me until Feb. I can't wait because I plan to go to a pain management doctor who can percribe the Buprenorphine for me to take a holiday and lower my tolerance to hydro and I will be able to find the root to my pain!
Thanks for any help yoy may be able to give!
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astrophel2
Board Addict
Reged: 03/11/03
Posts: 309
Loc: Georgia
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Is this something a doctor would be willing to call in to a pharmacy without having to sit in front of him and receive a lecture of sorts?
Otherwise, where can it be found online at a reasonable price? The only one I know of is interpharm.cc @ 1.80/pill with a minimum order of 100 pills. I think it's for 0.2mg non-sublingual bupe pills.
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-Melissa
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trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 142
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Questions regarding withdrawal from oxyc and oxycodone...
My PMD feels that he found my pain generator and that a procedure will help me later this month, then start a taper, with bupe.
What can I expect? I will be in the same office, same doc, everything, IF everything works(fingers crossed)
So experts out there, step up and tell me what you think of this drug, and if it works, and how long it takes..I am not on a heavy dosage. Total of 40mg of oxycontin and 10 oxycodone for b/t.
Any experts out there?
trixxie
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The truth shall set you free!
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FatWang
Journeyman
Reged: 10/31/04
Posts: 96
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According to my doctor, there was a Fall, 2004 conference in Paris (where Buprenorphine therapy was pioneered) and they all agreed that many of the initial assumptions about Buprenorphine were wrong. Make sure you get a sufficient dosage. I was at 32mg by the end of my first week. You cannot OD on this stuff (so long as you do not drink or use benzos), so higher doses are fine. My doctor had a patient who was unresponsive until 70mg. That is common in Europe where they have had more success.
You insurance company will complain, but it is worth it. Methadone can be pretty devestating. I swithced off of it ASAP. I have been very happy with Buprenorphine, but I do believe that a high dose in the beginning really dose help. Higher doses are the best indicator that someonw will continure treatment in the first few weeks. For your current meds it is better to dose liberally.
Also, if you ever do need pain meds after taking Buprenorphine, remember that only Fentynal can override it without complications. Morphine and oxycodone can, but they often require a respirator. It is a bad deal. So if you are hurt, tell the doctor to use "IV Fentynal titrated to effect." I hope that helps. I have really liked Buprenorphine. I have tapered off of it after a car accident, and now I am back on at 4mg. It is really a great way to taper off opiates, or for side effect free long-term maintenance.
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hope46
Journeyman
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 92
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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I DOUBT YOU COULD GET ANY DOCTOR TO PHONE IN SUBOXONE FOR YOU. HOPEFULLY ONE DAY THE FDA WILL LIGHTEN THEIR REGULATIONS ON SUBOXONE SO IT'S MORE AVAILABLE FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT. RIGHT NOW, HOWEVER, THE DOCTORS WHO PRESCRIBE IT ARE BEING WATCHED CLOSELY SO THEY AREN'T LIKELY TO PHONE IT IN---MAYBE SOMEDAY SOON!---HOPE
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seaofyouth
Member
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 150
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Upon my first visit , my Dr. called in the my intial prescription right in front of me.The second time he wrote a script. He did add an additional licsence number.
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Nicki8705
Stranger
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Gulf Coast
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Sorry so late in posting. Cost? Know of 3 docs that prescribe it in LA. 2 are psychiatrists and 1 is a Family Pract.
Psychiatrist #1: Must commit to "his" after-care program
which is in-patient for at least 7 days, $5.000.00
Psychiatrist #2: 14 day ou-patient detox: &1,500.00
Family Pract. : # office visits over 3 month period, approx. $270.00
Wide range of services available in LA.
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sickboy7
Stranger
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 19
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do you go thru any withdrawls from buprenorphene as well since you stay on it for awhile until you get a stable dose and gradually lower your dose? i would imagine some type of withdrawl symptoms, but im assuming it's just less severe than hydro withdrawl, is that correct? i know methadone withdrawl is horrible, even with a gradual taper off, is bup like that too? thanks.
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hibbs
Old Hand
Reged: 08/22/03
Posts: 444
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Quote:
Also, is there a records OP that offers it? I know that is a long shot!I need to lower the amount of hydrocodone I take a day and my husband's insurance will not be available to me until Feb. I can't wait because I plan to go to a pain management doctor who can percribe the Buprenorphine for me to take a holiday and lower my tolerance to hydro and I will be able to find the root to my pain!
Thanks for any help yoy may be able to give!
I believe a Sub. Doctor can only treat up to 30 patients at any given time, this is why most of them have such a long waiting list. So I highly doubt any OP's can or will offer it, although I think they should try, especially if they are the doctors that prescribed the meds your wanting to come off of in the first place.
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The blues is the soundtrack to reality...
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Pocahontas
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/28/03
Posts: 286
Loc: North
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Quote:
do you go thru any withdrawls from buprenorphene as well since you stay on it for awhile until you get a stable dose and gradually lower your dose? i would imagine some type of withdrawl symptoms, but im assuming it's just less severe than hydro withdrawl, is that correct? i know methadone withdrawl is horrible, even with a gradual taper off, is bup like that too? thanks.
From my own experience, Suboxone w/d is NOTHING. Hydro w/d is hell.
I have been on Sub for over two months now. I had a week of no medicine and was abruptly off Sub for that week and I had no w/d at all!
When I began Sub, I was tapered up in dose from 2 mg to 8 mg daily. I will take 8 mg daily for now and later on, maybe a year, my doc will taper me down and off of it.
Since my experience has shown that I tolerate Suboxone very very well, I don't fear Sub w/d, or minor, if anything. Sub does have a long half life so that 3-4 days after stopping the med is when you might feel any w/d if there is going to be any. Hydro was just about 24 hours on the dot...I could predict my "flu" ..
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~Princess Pocahontas
Aim for the moon, for if you miss you will always land among the stars .. ***
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Nicki8705
Stranger
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Gulf Coast
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From my experience.....Unfortunately I "detoxed" 3 times as noted in my post above regarding prices. Thankfully the 3rd time did the trick and I have been opiate free for over 8 months now.....Please believe me when I tell you that the shorter the length of time you take the Bup or subs, the better. If you stay on past a few weeks, you WILL have w/d's from the subs. Not nearly as bad as from hydro, but not pleasant nonetheless.
Think about it...the subox or subutex is a synthetic opiate, which satisifes your need for opiates, and yes there is also an antagonist in the med which blocks the euphoric effects....but still, you will become "addicted" to a large dose, or even 4mgs per day, and will go through w/d similar to opiate withdrawal,though not as bad. The general consenuse, after reading about the topic for 8 months now, is the shorter the time, and the lower the dose of the sub, the better. The long term maintenance is advocated by some docs who do not personally go through the detox, so who knows better than the patient. ( me in this case.) After 3 trys, the one that worked best for me and most cases I read about was 4 to 6 weeks on the sub until you taper down to 2mgs per day....then take naloxone, for another 2 weeks....then stop!! A bit uncomfortable and craving at first, but nothing as bad as "quitting" the subs and nalox following an extended maintenance program I know maintenance is the less scary route to opt for in the short run, but in the long run you will be in what we refer to as "bup" hell....plenty of stories on the net. I can personally vouch for the less, the better. You will pay for long term maintenace and have w/d from the long term use of sub.....it is a synthetic opiate........ In the case of sub or bup...less is more!
Good luck....used correctly, subutex or suboxone is a blessing. It is better to detox with subox than subutex, as the subutex just makes you feel "too good" due to the opiate and euphoric sensation that does not have the opiate "blocker" that subOXONE has.
The meds are a Godsend....try to use a Family Practioner who is on the list. THe psychiatrists, in my experience, ar MUCH more expensive.
Good luck and God Bless.
Nicki
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sickboy7
Stranger
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 19
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pochahontas and niki,
thank you very much for the info! i found a doctor who will prescribe it and im gonna give it a go. ive already made notes. LESS IS MORE! thank you. but i still need pain meds for my ankle or i can hardly walk sometimes, but im gonna ask for something other than hydro for that. thanks again! this is a great board with great people. you all rock!
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