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AngelWolf13
Veteran
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 523
Loc: w/ my '91 EG-4 in SoCal....
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"christian do-gooders".... i am also christian.... i am also in pain.... i also believe in liberty and freedom.... if i had made mention of of "muslim do-gooders" or "jewish do-gooders" or "black do-gooders" or "female do-gooders" or "gay do-gooders" every aclu-type extremist would be at my throat. people, try, PLEASE try to be fair and not be judgemental and prejudiced against certain groups of individuals you might feel need to be stereotyped. i would love to strive toward true equality bewteen ALL people. i wish the days of segregation were truly over (segregation can have several meanings). there is good and bad in all type of people regardless of race, religion, color, creed, culture, gender, sexual orientation, etc. etc. people who are at fault should be blamed as individuals if there is blame to be placed and not generalized vaguely toward a particular group.
i sincerely pray that i will be fortunate enough to see true human intergration realized in my lifetime. please don't keep us locked in the mindset of the segregated 50's. surely, we are more enlightened today!
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
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fred_s
Enthusiast
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 265
Loc: SE USA
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[quote
i sincerely pray that i will be fortunate enough to see true human intergration realized in my lifetime. please don't keep us locked in the mindset of the segregated 50's. surely, we are more enlightened today!
Greetings, Angel -
I've learned not to expect too much from others - but I sure do appreciate optimism! Having said that, I too hope for the same thing... Happy Holidays! 
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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AngelWolf13
Veteran
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 523
Loc: w/ my '91 EG-4 in SoCal....
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thank you fred!
i was expecting to get raked for that one. but, happily, i am pleasantly surprised!
merry christmas and happy holidays to you, hon, and to ALL the other posters and mods of this wonderful board!!!!
love, angel
--------------------
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Far be it from me to start a flame war either, but please, folks, try to remember that there are all kinds of people with chronic pain, including Christians, such as me. I really don't think generalizations are necessary. I may be a Christian, but that doesn't mean I'm out there participating in the bogus "war on drugs". Why is it that bigotry against Christians is the last "acceptable" prejudice? Please, don't lump us all together like that. Thanks. 
You are right. I was the one who made the original "Christian do-gooders" statement and that was unfair of me. Stereotyping is simply an easy way to categorize individuals which is not fair.
I apologize for that statement and should of re-worded it to "busybody do-gooders" ie., people who always seem to know what's best for someone else.
Christians, non-Christians, Americans, whatever, we are all in the same boat when it comes to this country's problem with underdiagnosing pain.
Regards,
fleshonbone, indecline
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Trelaina~
Nice post! Same here, I am Christian, and I do not consider myself a "do-gooder."
In fact, I am in the dental health field & have been for over 20 years. During this time, most, if not all of the Dr's that I have met that are really strict in prescribing narcotics are all athiests.
Just my observations.
Peace,
Julz
This might have more to do with Government policy than the fact that they are "atheists".
I am not an atheist, but don't make the same mistake I did in the other direction.
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trelaina
Member
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 119
Loc: thereabouts
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Thanks, indecline! btw....LOVE the sadako eye!!!
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kimbell1
Board Addict
Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 316
Loc: Route 666, Painville, Texas 6...
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I am not going to add anything that probably has not been said. I can say tht my own relationship with the onlest doctor that I have seen (aince 1999) was been treaqting like a junkie the last 2-3 years.
I work with the guy and try to keep as my off his back as posssible. But is it appreciated? NO
I have this example. I am offically recognizzed as handicapped for a physical problem with getting social security disability. Where I live, this is considered 'God's word' that you are handicapped. I asked for a handicapped parking persmit. He looked at me like I asked for a bag of H.
He gave me this BS about he could go to jail if 'officials' found he gave me a handicapped tag fruadlently. Huh?
I government agency with a lot more clout gave me disability. That should be enough with him havnig a copy of the letter. Add all the tests, records and the fact I am getting an early disability pension, and I think he is more than justified.
And I neraly get run over by new 4 by 4 pickups that you have to be a basket ball player to get in.
I wonder how and shy they need and get the tags.
I am not complaining about the people with vans or land yachts with a power chair on back. No powercahir in the pick up beds.
This patient/doctor relationship going south i general is just one of many problems with this country. I was thinking that we live in the most perowerful country in the world. Yet, Sweden and Austrailia, Britian to name a few, provide universal health care.
And I have heard the complaints that it takes forever to se a doctor. Got news. I have to wait 2-3 weeeks with the flu to get in.
So what if I had to wait under socila medicie. At least I won't have to fine bankruptcy if I get a major illness. Because with sky high co pays and this is not covered or the only specialist is not on you plan in a city of 3 million, you still can go broke with insurance.
Those that say that leave if you don't like it hear-nes flash.
I HAVE been looking at other coountries. problem. They only want HEALTHY immigrants-assuming they will take you at all.
This is the only country that will take anyone who can basically breath and let them live here.
The rest of the world is smart enough not to let people in that they know will drain their resources.
So instead of raisng taxes or not building a fighter jet, kick some more people off soical programs.
This just sucks. I sometimes wish I WAS at death's door. I know that there is a better place than the one we screwed up waiting for me. At least I go with a clean conscience. I never fuked anyone over that I did on purpose. Can everyone say that.
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gram_stainer
Journeyman
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Midwest, North
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Ok - I've said it before on other boards, and I'll say it here now - Doctors are here to work for YOU, NOT the other way around. Being that I'm going to get my MD's and actually become a doctor, I feel justified in saying this. If there were no patients, doctors would not have jobs. Period.
If you are unhappy with the way your doctor is treating you - Inform him/her of the fact. Know your states law to the letter about whatever condition it is you suffer from, and let your doctor know that if s/he is not comfortable treating you that you will:
A) Inform your states AMA of the fact
B) Take your business to another doctor who WILL treat you right
C) If you have an HMO or insurance that you will be informing them of the problem with that doctor.
Bring state guidelines with you to your doctor and point out to him that these are facts that BY LAW s/he HAS to adhere to - and if they don't, they could have a malpractice suit coming their way.
I am SO gawd damm'ed sick and tired of doctors treating people this way.  All it does is make me strive to get my schooling done, so maybe I can start helping people.
If I can ever help in anyway - maybe by helping to look up state laws - something, anything - let me know. I knwo how you feel when it comes to getting inadequate care, or the "srug seeker" looks.
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timetogo
Member
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 194
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When do you get your license, and where will your office be? LOL You will have a thriving practice, I'm sure. If only all doctors had your attitude, the world would certainly be a better place.
Best of luck to you.
Time
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Thanks, indecline! btw....LOVE the sadako eye!!!
Ahh. Someone knows who Sadako is!!!
I have you seen Ju-On? Another great one ...
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Ok - I've said it before on other boards, and I'll say it here now - Doctors are here to work for YOU, NOT the other way around. Being that I'm going to get my MD's and actually become a doctor, I feel justified in saying this. If there were no patients, doctors would not have jobs. Period.
If you are unhappy with the way your doctor is treating you - Inform him/her of the fact. Know your states law to the letter about whatever condition it is you suffer from, and let your doctor know that if s/he is not comfortable treating you that you will:
A) Inform your states AMA of the fact
B) Take your business to another doctor who WILL treat you right
C) If you have an HMO or insurance that you will be informing them of the problem with that doctor.
Bring state guidelines with you to your doctor and point out to him that these are facts that BY LAW s/he HAS to adhere to - and if they don't, they could have a malpractice suit coming their way.
I am SO gawd damm'ed sick and tired of doctors treating people this way. All it does is make me strive to get my schooling done, so maybe I can start helping people.
If I can ever help in anyway - maybe by helping to look up state laws - something, anything - let me know. I knwo how you feel when it comes to getting inadequate care, or the "srug seeker" looks.
Gram,
I think the biggest problem is that most doctors are businessmen first, and physicians second.
Unfortunately, we can not entirely blame them as people - it is the competitive, consumeristic society that has bred them this way. Couple that with the war on drugs, and the stereotyping of certain chemicals as "bad", while others are ignored, or considered good, and we arrive at both direct and indirect economic pressures to succomb to the desires of a few.
It's at least refreshing to hear someone like yourself recognize that there are some doctors out there who really want to help people. Unfortunately, good intentions are scarcely rewarded in a society where the bottom line has nothing to do with people.
Regards,
indecline
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AngelWolf13
Veteran
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 523
Loc: w/ my '91 EG-4 in SoCal....
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indecline,
just to add to that, the huge drug companies like pfizer, merck, etc. do anything to push their new products before the patent expires. they dismiss the negatives, like dangerous side effects of these "miracle" drugs like vioxx, celebrex and bextra, just to name a few, while pushing other drugs for unapproved uses and off-label prescribing, as in the case of neurontin! they actually lied to doctors about nonexistant studies and tests that were never conducted. my doctor won't rx something that works for me, no, but i got celebrex, enough to put me in the danger zone, and now as much neurontin as my poor body can handle. the side effects are killing me.
here, from ahrp
Quote:
Tue, 29 Oct 2002
Internal company documents unsealed in a federal lawsuit reveal how the unholy alliance between doctors and drug companies has corrupted medical practice and defrauded the US taxpayer.
Although it is illegal for drug companies to promote a drug for conditions not approved by the FDA, The New York Times reports that internal memoranda presented in court, show evidence that Warner-Lambert did just that when it promoted Neurotonin, a drug approved only for epilepsy. Instead of conducting clinical trials to test the safety and efficacy of Neurontin for the conditions it promoted, the company (now owned by Pfizer) spent money "educating" doctors, encouraging them to prescribe the drug for unproven uses to their patients with diabetes and bi-polar disorder. Neurotonin sales are said to exceed $2 billion this year. The US attorney's office in Boston is conducting criminal and civil inquiries into the defrauding taxpayers of tens of millions of Medicaid dollars.
The case demonstrates that federal oversight agencies --such as the FDA--do not protect the public against illegal corporate practices. Instead, we must turn to litigation to protect the public health and purse...
Pfizer said in 2000 that more than 78 percent of Neurontin prescriptions were written for unapproved uses. This year, sales of the drug are expected to exceed $2 billion. Pfizer says it is cooperating with investigators and cannot comment in more detail due to the pending litigation.
Under federal law, doctors can prescribe drugs in any way they believe will best help patients. But it is illegal for a drug maker to promote a medicine for conditions that are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration, which requires detailed clinical trials showing its safety and effectiveness....
and this was over 2 years ago and the drug is now still being more widely prescribed off-label than ever!!!! here is the LINK so you can read more.
and doctors are so scared of prescribing narcotics and risk losing their license, that they figure if they rx neurontin, no one can complain that they are not being treated, and if neurontin causes anyone to get hurt or worse, the drug company will be the one to get sued. or at least that's how i see it.....
angel
p.s. indecline, love your avatar! i saw "ringu" before i saw "the ring". (being half-japanese, i knew it was the original). i haven't had a chance to see the sequels, though, but i bought the whole dvd set for a family member x-mas 2003. or was it x-mas 2002?  hell, i can't remember...
--------------------
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
Edited by AngelWolf13 (01/30/05 08:54 PM)
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gram_stainer
Journeyman
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Midwest, North
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Hey guys - Give me another year or so to finish up my BS courses like organic chemistry and biochemistry, then I'm hitting med school. I plan on starting out in an ER to get clinical experience, and was hoping to go work for the CDC doing fieldwork research on Ebola - but I may just decide to become a GP who tries to deal with pain people as much as possible. Not sure yet.
The whole attitude behind pain meds is ridiculous. If someone who has actually studied medicine - and knows the biochemical reactions - not to mention the physiological aspect of pain receptors - continues to think that pain patients are better off without pain medication - then that med student/doctor is just ignorant. There has been recent clinical and diagnostic research confirming the fact that neurological pathways actually become "ingrained" when chronic pain has been a factor in the patients life for a long time. What this means is that a patient experiences pain, pain, pain, more pain, etc - over a period of time the neurological pathways have set themselves up to continue to do so - even if the cause of the pain has completely gone away! So chronic pain patients actually experience more and more pain. It's a nasty, evil cycle.
Any doc worth his two cents KNOWS (or should know) that prescribing such pain meds as codeine or hydrocodne (darvon, darvocete - or propoxyphene is a joke - don't even get me started on that one, lol) knows that, yes there IS a chance for addiction - BUT if the prescribed amount is small, then there is hardly risk for it. Not only that, but if a patient is on those meds for a long time, then it is a prophalactic measure, and tapering should be done with the help of the doctor and it can be done safely and with minimum effort and risk to both doc and patient.
Ack - Ok - I'm just going off now - I should stop.
Just know that when I do become a doc - I'll inform you fine people, and see if I can help some of you. It just makes me mad that so many people have to go through this BS because of what is drilled into med students skulls by their instructors who are from an older and more archaic time in regards to certain subjects.
I'll be quite now - Peace, and as little pain as possible to you all.
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sasi
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 142
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I have tried every urologist on my HMO's list and they are all the same. There are no laws, in my state, that I know of that give me a right to pain meds. I left the last urologist's office crying after he dialated me and still all he was willing to prescribe were the dye meds that make me throw up and don't work anyway. *sigh*
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trelaina
Member
Reged: 03/27/03
Posts: 119
Loc: thereabouts
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks, indecline! btw....LOVE the sadako eye!!!
Ahh. Someone knows who Sadako is!!!
I have you seen Ju-On? Another great one ...
Yep, saw it (the original Japanese) a few weeks ago and now I can't get that awful croaking out of my head *brrr* Haven't seen the American remake yet..
Angelwolf and Gram - great points about pain meds. I never thought of it that way. My GP was prescribing me everything in the book (except narcotics, of course), including some of the ones that have turned out to be dangerous. Ridiculous.
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PJoseph
Member
Reged: 09/12/04
Posts: 161
Loc: South of I-80
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Quote:
i would love to strive toward true equality bewteen ALL people.
You are wrong,
Boys are better than girls!
Nana, Nana, Nah Nah
PJ
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gram_stainer
Journeyman
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Midwest, North
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Hey guys - I've already mentioned this on another board - and maybe here someplace, I can't remember right now. But I'm thinking of taking on an epidemiological study for one of my courses that involves chronic pain. If anyone wants to PM me a list of states so I can look up specific laws regarding treatment of pain in both acute and chronic cases - based on both clinical and subclinical aspects - I will be happy to do so. Fortunately, I'm one of those uber science geeks, and I sort of have some leeway with what courses I take, and what I do in those courses.
So if anyone wants some help, feel free to let me know and I will do what I can. I'm sure that with the help of some of my more sympathetic Proff's (sympathetic in regards to pain and treatment, that is) I will be able to garner some useful information.
Love to you all.
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AngelWolf13
Veteran
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 523
Loc: w/ my '91 EG-4 in SoCal....
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gram,
expect to get a lot of messages in your pm mail. mine included! i have my first pain management appointment today (nervous!) and if it doesn't go well expect to hear from me today!
trelaina,
i agree and thank you! it's strange how information can be both enlightening and disheartening at the same time! i hope you are able to find someone who can take care of you. you deserve no less than that! and that goes for you too, sasi, and everyone else mistreated by those who swear by the "hypocritic" oath.
and, um, pjoseph,
ARE NOT ! XP
--------------------
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
Edited by AngelWolf13 (01/31/05 12:50 PM)
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
indecline,
just to add to that, the huge drug companies like pfizer, merck, etc. do anything to push their new products before the patent expires. they dismiss the negatives, like dangerous side effects of these "miracle" drugs like vioxx, celebrex and bextra, just to name a few, while pushing other drugs for unapproved uses and off-label prescribing, as in the case of neurontin! they actually lied to doctors about nonexistant studies and tests that were never conducted. my doctor won't rx something that works for me, no, but i got celebrex, enough to put me in the danger zone, and now as much neurontin as my poor body can handle. the side effects are killing me.
here, from ahrp
Quote:
Tue, 29 Oct 2002
Internal company documents unsealed in a federal lawsuit reveal how the unholy alliance between doctors and drug companies has corrupted medical practice and defrauded the US taxpayer.
Although it is illegal for drug companies to promote a drug for conditions not approved by the FDA, The New York Times reports that internal memoranda presented in court, show evidence that Warner-Lambert did just that when it promoted Neurotonin, a drug approved only for epilepsy. Instead of conducting clinical trials to test the safety and efficacy of Neurontin for the conditions it promoted, the company (now owned by Pfizer) spent money "educating" doctors, encouraging them to prescribe the drug for unproven uses to their patients with diabetes and bi-polar disorder. Neurotonin sales are said to exceed $2 billion this year. The US attorney's office in Boston is conducting criminal and civil inquiries into the defrauding taxpayers of tens of millions of Medicaid dollars.
The case demonstrates that federal oversight agencies --such as the FDA--do not protect the public against illegal corporate practices. Instead, we must turn to litigation to protect the public health and purse...
Pfizer said in 2000 that more than 78 percent of Neurontin prescriptions were written for unapproved uses. This year, sales of the drug are expected to exceed $2 billion. Pfizer says it is cooperating with investigators and cannot comment in more detail due to the pending litigation.
Under federal law, doctors can prescribe drugs in any way they believe will best help patients. But it is illegal for a drug maker to promote a medicine for conditions that are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration, which requires detailed clinical trials showing its safety and effectiveness....
and this was over 2 years ago and the drug is now still being more widely prescribed off-label than ever!!!! here is the LINK so you can read more.
and doctors are so scared of prescribing narcotics and risk losing their license, that they figure if they rx neurontin, no one can complain that they are not being treated, and if neurontin causes anyone to get hurt or worse, the drug company will be the one to get sued. or at least that's how i see it.....
angel
p.s. indecline, love your avatar! i saw "ringu" before i saw "the ring". (being half-japanese, i knew it was the original). i haven't had a chance to see the sequels, though, but i bought the whole dvd set for a family member x-mas 2003. or was it x-mas 2002? hell, i can't remember...
Angel,
You are dead on. Look what the [censored] like Vioxx, Celebrex, Ultram, etc etc etc are doing to people; but nobody gave them a second look when prescribed by the barrel-full simply because they are "non-narcotic".
What is "neurontin"? Is it a migraine medication?
BTW, my wife is Japanese - she grew up in Tokyo, so we are big fans of all the great Japanese horror films, I liked Ringu and The Ring equally the same - haven't seen the American version of Ju-On (the Grudge) yet, although that creaking sound still freaks my wife out if I do it behind her back 
I noticed an guitar in your avatar, do you play? I have been playing the drums since I was about 14 ... which is about 18 years now (sheesh, I'm getting old!).
Don't know if you heard of them, but Yellow Machinegun is one of my all-time favorite bands - they are an all girl, Japanese metal/hardcore band - what's great about them is that if you saw them you would never figure them for a hardcore band - they all look like cute and innocent little Japanese schoolgirls who weigh no more than 150lbs all added together But when they play - watch out!
Sorry for going off topic a bit - take care.
indecline
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Quote:
I have tried every urologist on my HMO's list and they are all the same. There are no laws, in my state, that I know of that give me a right to pain meds. I left the last urologist's office crying after he dialated me and still all he was willing to prescribe were the dye meds that make me throw up and don't work anyway. *sigh*
I'm not sure what condition you suffer from, but it sounds like you are talking about either a UTI, or some kind of kidney problem ... unfortunately, narcotic painkillers are rarely prescribed for this kind of pain because hydro does a number on your kidneys and also dehydrates you (=bad for kidneys).
I am a male, and believe it or not, I had a kidney infection about 5 years ago (complication from kidney stones because I used to drink a lot of milk). It was awful - it made my whole lower abdomen (bladder area), back (kidneys) and male member just ache and throb with pain ... not to mention that it felt like I had to take a leak at every minute of the day (whether I had to or not), and when I did, it felt like my jimmy had turned into a flame thrower; as if gasoline were coming out.
Nevertheless, what I wanted to say was, I had some narcotic pain medication for my TMJ and migraines, and believe me I took them when I had the kidney infection - they didn't do a thing, not even once - I later found out that they probably made my problem worse. The only thing that seemed to help a little was those OTC AZO pills.
Bottom line is, you're probably not going to get any real adequate relief for a UTI or kidney problem because they just don't seem to make anything for it that significantly kills the pain, in my experience. You're certainly not going to get something like hydro for something like that.
Best of luck to you,
indecline
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sasi
Member
Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 142
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Thanks indecline, you are right, I can't get anything like hydro from the urologists on my HMO list. Before my job switched to a list of HMOs I had a urologist that prescribed hydro on a regular basis for my problems. He is the most compasionate doctor that I have ever seen and that is really sad to say actually. If I were to continue to see him now it would cost me about $500 per visit and I'd need to go every 6 months for maintenance. I will do that if it gets really bad. I have gone back to him twice since I've been in the HMO and had to pay full price out of pocket so I will do it again if it gets bad enough.
My problems are a too small urethra that needs to be dialated. If allowed to contine to get smaller and smaller (which is what has happend since I've been on the HMO) then I develop the problems of blood in urine and very painful urination, a need to constantly push, constant pain in the urethral area which hydro does help with and extremely painful bladder spasms. If you've never had a bladder spasm (which none of these urologist have) then you cannot imagine how painful they are. It feels like someone ramming a knief up my rectum. Hydro barely helps with that but soma really does help which I used to also get from my old urologist but can no longer get from all of these other ones that I have seen. All these urologists will give me is Detrol. Detrol does help in the long run but I need something right then when the spasm occurs. I do not have UTIs because I take an antibiotic every day as a bacterial suppressant. Every time they do a urinalisis, it comes up clean except for the blood.
By the time that I finally found a urologist on the list that would actually perform the dialation, I was so tight that the pain and blood lasted for weeks. He also perfomed a cysto and they now have it set up so that the patient can see what the doctor sees on a tv. It showed a mass of grey build up on my bladder wall and red swollen polyps all over it. My old urologist used to give me a bladder irrigation with medication in it that killed any bacteria on the bladder wall and removed some of the grey build up which in turn made the polyps smaller/less inflamed. I have yet to find a urologist who will do that for me. They say that it is old school and no one does it anymore. But, it helped me and what they are doing is not but hey what do I know right?
I am also a stone former and pass stones every once in a while. My old doctor made hydro available to me for that reason as well. Even though hydro barely touches the pain of passing a stone at least it is better than nothing at all.
I have never heard that hydro would make the pain worse, that is a new one to me. Why haven't any of these urologists told me that when I've asked for hydro and they've refused without saying why?
As for the dye meds like AZO, they make me puke. I've tried them all, even on a full stomach they make me really ill. Also, they do nothing for the urinary or urethral pain or bladder spasms, perhaps because it isn't a UTI? I don't know why they don't work for me.
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ghost
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 206
Loc: Southeastern US
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Indecline, Neurontin is FDA approved for Seizures ONLY, and not even as a first line treatment. However, it's prescribed off label for around 11 other conditions. I just recently got off it after taking it four years, and I did taper myself since I had read some horror stories on the net about Neurontin withdrawal, but I felt nothing. At least I didn't have any side effects from it either, but I wasn't taking a huge dose because I refused. It also costs about $500 a month for the dose I was taking (1600 mg. per day in divided doses). Some people take 3000-4000 mg. a day and are constantly tired, mentally foggy, and unsteady. My body's reaction to Neurontin felt like it was a placebo. And yes, migraines are one of those 11 unapproved uses of this drug. It doesn't work. Docs love it though because of all the unapproved uses, they can pass it out for just about anything.
ghost
--------------------
"When the day is long, and the night,
The night is yours alone.
You're sure you've had enough of this life
Hang on...
Because everybody hurts sometimes." REM
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AngelWolf13
Veteran
Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 523
Loc: w/ my '91 EG-4 in SoCal....
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Quote:
What is "neurontin"? Is it a migraine medication?
indecline,
nuerontin is an anti-convulsant manufactured for epileptic patients.
Quote:
About Neurontin®
Neurontin is the brand name for the drug gabapentin and is a widely prescribed anti-convulsant approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of epilepsy. Warner-Lambert Company (Warner) has manufactured and sold the brand name prescription drug Neurontin since its approval by the FDA on December 30, 1993 . Warner marketed Neurontin through its Parke-Davis division. Warner was acquired by Pfizer in June of 2000 and is presently a wholly owned subsidiary of Pfizer.
but as PAL stated on their website (check it out) neurontin is pushed as a "cure" from everything from bipolar disorder to chronic pain management.
Quote:
In 2000, when Parke-Davis was acquired by Pfizer, Inc, the only FDA approved use for Neurontin was as an add-on treatment for epilepsy. This is a very limited market with little upward sales potential. According to the suit, Parke-Davis knew that pain management, psychiatric disorders, anxiety and depression, all off-label uses, were immense markets, which if tapped, could yield enormous profits from sales of Neurontin. The company decided that it would be faster and less expensive to avoid the FDA's drug approval process and promote Neurontin for unsubstantiated uses.Company officials developed a strategy that would allow Parke-Davis to avoid the costs of proving Neurontin's safety and effectiveness for these other uses, while allowing the company to enter the lucrative off-label markets. The company used a variety of manipulative and fraudulent tactics to build sales of the drug...
BOTH my pcp and my psych press me hard to take neurontin for my back. it doesn't work. it put me in ER last week because it gave me a 3-day migraine that even a 10 mg shot of morphine in my butt didn't cure! i can't sleep on neurontin and it makes me jittery and moody. my back still hurts after i take it, but my doctors tell me that i have to take it over an extended period of time before i get the "full-effect". honestly, that scares me. i don't think i want to know what the full-effects are. and i want to alleviate my pain NOW, not in a few weeks, that is if, indeed, that really happens. i don't want to feel like [censored] for weeks just to find out that it might not work at all. why can't i get relief today? is there a law that says pain is unimportant? are doctors taught that "pain doesn't kill"? i don't know how much longer i can take this. no one should have to live like this. pain might not "kill", per se, but it is certainly no way to live. there are so many things i have yet to do in life, so much more i can offer to this world. i don't want to be the proof that "pain kills". well, enough of this rant.... we were talking about neurontin?
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A "publication strategy" that allowed it to promote Neurontin by the massive distribution of articles written by technical writers hired by the company. These articles supposedly described the scientific evaluation of Neurontin for off-label uses. Parke-Davis paid honoraria to physicians for the use of their names on these articles, even though the physicians were not involved in preparing the articles.
Holding "consultants'" meetings at which doctors were paid to hear - either from company employees or physician speakers hired by the company -- lengthy presentations relating to Neurontin, particularly regarding off-label usage. Parke-Davis also routinely tracked these "consultants'" Neurontin prescription writing practices after these meetings.
Payment of kickbacks to physicians to hear off-label promotion of Neurontin at programs billed as Continuing Medical Education (CME) seminars. Every aspect of these conferences and seminars was designed and approved by Parke-Davis, despite requirements that these sorts of seminars be developed independent of the drug manufacturer.
Outright payments, in the form of grants, to reward demonstrated physicians who actively prescribed Neurontin.
The formation of a Speakers' Bureau, which paid physicians to give presentations advocating for the use of Neurontin.As a result of this broad-ranging marketing scheme, sales of Neurontin in 2000 were 1.3 billion, and they grew to $1.7 billion; nearly 80% of these sales were for off-label use.The consumer organizations that brought the suit are: California Public Interest Research Group (CALPIRG), Congress of California Seniors and national, grassroots consumer organization, USAction. This case was filed under section 17200, et seq. of California 's unfair competition and false advertising statutes (Cal. Bus. Prof. Code §§ 17200-17208 and 17500-17572) which regulate the conduct of businesses and their transactions with consumers.Although the case was removed to federal court, PAL attorneys successfully remanded the case back to state court in California. On January 30, 2004 Defendants filed a Motion to Dismiss the complaint. Plaintiffs filed the First Amended Complaint on March 19, 2004 in lieu of filing oppositions to Defendants pending motions. Defendants filed a new Motion to Dismiss in response to the First Amended Complaint on April 19, 2004.
again, it's all in the link i posted.
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BTW, my wife is Japanese
indecline,
my mother is japanese, but born and raised in hawaii. dad is haole (hungarian, portuguese, dutch, german) also b&r in hawaii. you'll have beautiful children!  (sorry, couldn't resist that!)
as for all the obake, i grew up with that stuff. eerie scary. there's not the climactic build-up of western theater, it just jumps out and bites you! no warning. it turns the familiar to frightening, normal becomes nightmare.
i have a couple of vintage prs (paul reed smith) guitars, among other things, picked up my first electric guitar when i got my very first paycheck 22 years ago so don't feel bad. and please don't say you're getting old. because i think i'm older than you, but i still feel like a teenager (except for my "old", aching back).
my [family member, the one i sent the ringu series to], probably knows yellow machinegun. she's all into anime and obscure japanese metal and groups, and everything. i'll have to ask her about it tonight.
take care, all. sorry for another of my long posts you had to endure.
angel
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
Emo Philips.
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Sasi,
I didn't mean to say that hydro made the pain from kidney stones (or problems) worse ... what I meant to say was that they could possibly make the condition itself worse.
As I said, I am no expert in this field - I was simply relating my own experiences with such.
It sounds like you have a very complicated condition and I feel for you ... when I had the kidney infection that time it was one of the most miserable 3 weeks of my life - it was just so irratatingly uncomfortable to have that feeling that you have to urinate ALL the time, no matter what you do - that and the fact that I could not find any relief whatsoever for it - it was like everything around my bladder area, and kidney area just ached and throbbed incessantly - from the minute I woke until the minute I fell asleep (which was difficult in and of itself). And not only are you inclined to pee (for relief), but it's as if you don't want to because it burns to high heaven when you do (and also made my you-know-what burn and hurt as well).
Part of it was my fault because I waited for 3 weeks before seeking treatment - I had heard the horror stories about catheters and cameras being shoved you-know-where and it didn't sound very appealing - I din't know that they were just going to give me antibiotics - live and learn I guess.
Best of luck to you, and I hope you find what you are looking for - even if it is only some relief ...
take care,
indecline
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 82
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Angel and Ghost,
Neurontin sounds like Topamax - I had a neurologist try to push that [censored] on me for migraines (I actually have TMJ that triggers migraines).
Anyways, topamax is an anti-convulsant that is also (supposedley) used for migraine management). The problem is that after I did a little research on it, I found out that it is ultra-hard on your liver, and I don't need any more toxic [censored] in my liver - due to all the excedrin migraines tablets I used to take along with painkillers that have APAP in them.
Angel - I pm'd you about the off-topic stuff - and don't mention old, you look young in that picture!
take care all,
indecline
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