bruinsrule
Newbie
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 36
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I've been taking Vic HP for about 14 months now. I'm only taking 2/day. At what point should I be concerned about the long-term effects of Tylenol at the amount I'm taking? Thanks in advance!
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1201
Loc: Deep North (East)
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That's a good question, bruinsrule.
I think it's safe to say that 14 months constitutes long term. But if you are maintaining at only 2 Vicodin a day then you're lucky. Many people would have built up a significant tolerance after more than a year of daily hydro.
Probably you're taking the 7.5/750 Vicodin? if you're worried about the APAP you could consider switching to Norco 10/325's for instance, with more hydro but less than half the Tylenol. Some people find these less effective than Vicodin, but personally they have worked a lot better for me.
I think 1500mg of Tylenol daily is well within the daily maximum recommended dose. It's generally thought (received opinion from reading here in the forums on DB) that 4000mg per day is the maximum short term Tyenol you can take without damaging your liver. But everybody reacts differently, you need to do what's right for you long term.
If you are seriously concerned you should have some blood work done to put your mind at rest.
Just my 2 cents.
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lincoona
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 67
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My recommendation is stay with what works for you. I would NOT change to Norco as this increases your hydrocodone and possible dependency issues. As for the amount of APAP, I would discuss that with your doctor but from my research it seems that you should not have a problem.
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Budikturk
Stranger
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 4
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Well, mine was real long term and amount. It all started with a difficult hemmoriod surgery, I was given 90 percodan with 3 refills. To tell you the truth I needed much more than that....going to classes with a donut sucks btw...anyway to make this short and to the point. I was up to 13 pills per dose of lortab 7.5/500! Yes 13 at a time! no joke. At that rate I had to get a 90 count prescription a day, of which I did for 1 1/2 years. Every day 90, I had a dam calendar set for the pharms (all local of course, this was before the mighty net came to power). LoL you should seen my dentist, he had to use 5 shots to numb me! Anyway I got caught and it was pretty bad. Not bad penalty wise but bad in my families eyes. Nowadays I can take it or leave it, If I had it, woohoo, if not, grumpcity then normal. Conclusion? well besides loosing teeth, and a huge waste of money. So dont go down that road, besides the speed traps, theres lots of guilt. BTW I had a full workup about a year later with all normal stats, except for my teeth. Snaggletooth off....
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 233
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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Just an observation on the percodan, and talking Tylenol (APAP) Percodan has asprin and percocet has APAP.
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1201
Loc: Deep North (East)
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Quote:
My recommendation is stay with what works for you. I would NOT change to Norco as this increases your hydrocodone and possible dependency issues.
Ever hear of tolerance, lincoona? The suggestion to think about Norco was meant to propose a way to get the same (or more) hydro with LESS tylenol, as that is what bruinsrule is concerned about.
With long term hydro use some dependency is not just possible it is inevitable. Sooner or later bruinsrule is going to need more hydro. It would be nice to get it without also getting more APAP.
Tylenol currently has an ad campaign on television basically begging customers to read the product and dosage description on the box, with a CS rep more or less saying "don't take Tylenol if you can't be bothered to read how dangerous it can be".
Liver damage from tylenol misuse is a far greater health risk than hydro dependency.
Edited by potatoboy99 (12/06/04 12:59 PM)
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lincoona
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 67
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I disagree with the "sooner or later Bernie is going to need more hydro" part. Some of us can maintain a constant low dosage without developing a tolerance to the hydrocodone. Dependency and tolerance are separate issues IMHO.
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bruinsrule
Newbie
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 36
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Thanks for all of your input. I'm pretty surprised that I'm still taking 1 1/2 - 2 per day and getting the relief I need. When I was first prescribed I went from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 per day pretty quickly, then luckily realized I was on a dangerous pace. I then forced myself to limit to the absolute minimum I could use that would relieve the pain, to the point of taking a half at a time. Somehow I haven't had to go over 2 1/2 in a day in about 6 months. I'm currently using brand HP, which I find is (for me) stronger than the rest, therefore I can keep the number a day down. It's more expensive, but if I can take fewer, it evens out. I have gone to Norco 10s a few times (to minimize the Tylenol), but I don't like the way it makes me feel. So now that I've been taking the brands for a few months, the fear of hurting my liver has kicked in and I thought I'd appeal to you all on the board to let me know if keeping under the 4000mg daily limit, but doing it every day, could have any long term damage. Of course, your opinions will never replace a doctor's opinion, but at least you can steer me in the right direction. Thanks for all of your input, and if anyone has more to add, I'm reading them all! Thanks again.
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lincoona
Journeyman
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 67
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Good for you, stay away form the Norco, keep your dosage to a minimum. I also am VERY conscious of both drugs' effects and keep my dosage to a low daily amount to avoid dependence and liver damage.
My research has indicated a vitamin supplement taken with the APAP can help the liver do its job, the combo is GLUTATHIONE, CYSTEINE & VITAMIN C available at: http://store.yahoo.com/lifeextensionvitamins/glcyc.html
as well as your local stores.
Nice to see a post from a minimalist like me!
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 263
Loc: USA
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I'll also second that motion about not switching to Norco. I know you said you didn't like the way it makes you feel, so that's good. Keep with what works for you and as long as you don't go over 1500mg apap a day, then your fine. They say 4000mg apap a day top limit, but in my experience with tylenol, the less you take, the better you'll feel in the long run. Tylenol can make a person very hot, queezy to stomach, dizzy, all sorts of little annoying things. Keep up the low dose of hydro and you'll be fine.
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Entertainment Specialist!
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ladybraids
Stranger
Reged: 07/21/04
Posts: 3
Loc: USA
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I'm following this thread with great interest. I'm in the same situation as Bruinsrule. I take the 7.5/750, up to 2 a day...often not any at all. I'm curious though about the vitamin supplement mentioned by lincuna.
I'd like to know if minimal damage is caused to the liver by low dosages of hydro/APAP, does the supplement then work to help the liver "do its job" anyway? I guess I'm asking: Does this supplement work for, say, people with liver conditions, not related to APAP or for people with no known liver problems?
TIA
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LadyB
"Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday."
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 222
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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If you are taking 1.5 G of tylenol/apap every few days you don;t have anything to worry about. It is when you are taking 4.5-6.0 grams of tylenol/apap every other day you have to worry. That's 6-8 7.5/750's per Dr's instructions daily.
The rule of thumb is that over 4.0 grams of tylenol/apap ddaily can damage your liver - thus the popularity of NORCO at 10/325 - you can still get the 30-40mg hydro you need but keep the tylenol APAP down under 1.5 grams daily.
I didn't know to be concerned untill after 2 years on 6-8 7.5/750 a day my Dr got all excited - ran liver tests (everything's OK) and announced she could no longer treat me.
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swtangel
Member
Reged: 07/09/04
Posts: 164
Loc: Delaware
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Wow, I just read your post 13 a day. Good for you for getting out of that. But may I ask what may be a stupid question? Sometimes I am nieve (sp?) when it comes to thing like this. Why did you have problem with your teeth after all of this? Was it from the hydro use? Can that happen if you take alot over an extended period of time? I don't take them all the time and when I do I never take more that 4-5 a day max, but really bad dental problems run in my family as it is. Thanks to anyone who can answer that question.
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Even God doesn't have a plan to judge man till the end of his days, why should I? -author unknown
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joesentme
Journeyman
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 94
Loc: USA
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I was wondering about the tooth thing too. Does the hydro or the tylenol damage your teeth? And in what way? (turn colors, become loose, etc)
Thanks!
~J~
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deborah7
Journeyman
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Northeast USA
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Hi Bruins,
I have been on hydro for about a year and have maintained 2-3 per day.
I know this is considered long-term, but, the level i have maintained is still working as well as it did the first time I took it.
Deb
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Though the mills of God grind slowly,
yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting,
with exactness grinds He all.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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Stephie43
Stranger
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 20
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Hi,
What is the difference between norco and hydrocodone?
Thanks,
Stephie
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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 172
Loc: SE USA
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Norco is a brand name pill of hydrocodone. Hydrocodone of varying strengths is used in pills for severe pain produced by several different manufacturers, "Norco" being one of them.
I hope this helps! Happy Holidays! 
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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