Codebunnie
Stranger
Reged: 11/05/04
Posts: 13
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I have been taking percocet for a while now, but my doc wont prescribe it to me anymore. What are some other alternatives to percocet that will make me feel the same? or something a little bit stronger? Any suggestions?
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 529
Loc: Chicago
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Hydrocodone is the closest. The two are very similar for most people. however, most people feel oxycodone is either a little or a lot stronger.
Hydrocodone ("vicodin"):
Oxycodone ("Percocet"):
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 152
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Wow, Such a small change makes it so much more effective (and habit forming). My pain doctor has given me both in small doses. Percocets are nothing to fool around with. I only use it in emergency - "break through" situations.
MetsFan
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 217
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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Percocet at 5mg oxycodone IR is matched in analgesia by 10-20mg hydro, orally. actually about 23mg per the analgesia schedules.
15mg oxy = 10mg morph IV/IM
60-80 mg hydro - 10 mg morph 1v/im
The schedules couch everything in relative potiential to 10mg morph IV/IM. Give me the old days when they handed out a full 1/4 grain (15mg) vs TWO 10mg shots.
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 413
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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I have always been suspicious of the oxy versus hydro debate. My doc will either prescribe 180 of the hydro 10's (with five refills) or the oxy 10's; 180 per 28 day cycle but I must return for office visits each time. Its up to me.
I find that the hydro works much better if I have to take it for more than a couple of days.
The oxy works good enough but really makes me feel nasty if eat too many of the tablets.
Hydro all the way for me.
voyager
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Codebunnie
Stranger
Reged: 11/05/04
Posts: 13
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Ive had hydro before and it wasnt strong enough for me, i was used to taking percocet 10's and then when i switched docs, he put me on 5/500 hydros, which doesnt compare very well. I knew that they were similar in that they are both opiates, but i didnt know that the ratio between the two was so drastic! Looking at Roxy's post kinda gives u the feeling like u have to take twice the amount of hydro to get the effects of oxy! I find that when i take hydro, i often take more than whats prescribed to get the pain relief i need, which results in ALOT of acetaminophen in my liver, which isnt good. I suppose i can stick with the hydros if i got a higher dose and didnt have to take as many pills. But are there any other pain meds out there that compare to oxys or hydros?
Thanx for the info  Much appreciated!
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RiverDawg
Stranger
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 14
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Try an OP that compounds Hydro. You can get 15/100 which will give you more Hydro and less Acetaminophen.
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lamborich
Stranger
Reged: 10/13/04
Posts: 19
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I feel I must correct you lest someone make a dangerous mistake. 12 mg oral oxy = 10 mgh iv morphine or = 25mg oral morphine. See www.palliative.org/PC/clinicalInfo/AssessmentTools/MeanEquivalent.pdf
From other sites there is a range of Oxy oral vs hydro oral from 10 mg oxy = 12 mg hydro to 15 mh hydro.
I have never had morphinhe in any form, but from personal experience, I lean to 10 mg oxy = 15 mg hydro.
Note: ASAP, while potentially dangerous does add to the analgesic effect, so Percocet (much more commonly prescribed than oxy IR, contains 325 mg acet/5 mg oxy.
Most hydro prescriptions, estimated 70% are for Vicodin ES or its generic equiv = 750 mg acet/7.5 hydro. SO my conclusion is that with those two- 10 mg oxy/650 mg = 12 hydro/1100 mg. My p.e. is with 10mg hydro/325 mg, so the range documented is PROBABLY due to the differing amount of tylenol. There are too many sites to list which compare oxy to hydro.
Side fact: Heroin much more potent than commonly realized, 4 "bags" street price $10-$15 each smoked or sniffed (considered "safe" by many) = 300 mg oral morphine = 150 mg percocet (50 tablets per day or 50 Vicodin ES (containing 37,500 mg tylenol- usually fatal in 3-4 hours). That is why 1 bag can prove fatal to a first time user. One bag injected = 20 bags smoked. The math is truly frightening. I learned this by researching for a friend desparate to quit/reduce. He needs 40 10mg/325mg per day. Before he went to 10 record Op sites (sure to be arrested, if not killed by the tylenol, I recommeded 4 40mg oxycontin a day. Avaliable at ONE'S OWN LEGAL RISK. A desparate situation either way. Both methadone clinics and suboxone treatments have multi-week waiting lists, depending on state. The problem (well documented) is that street purity is dramatically higher now than vs. 5 years ago.
I know that only pain patients use this site, but with the explosion in heroin use (estimated growth at 60% per year due to a variety of factors), I thought it might be helpful to have this knowledge. Collected from 15+ scientific studies found by searching the abstracts.
I am currently researching various tapering methods as well as opiod substitution in effort to help him. Many pain patients also will need tapering advice (not chronic).
I AM NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, but I am confident of my math.
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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 156
Loc: SE USA
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From what I understand from various news sources, the heroin increase in the USA is a direct result of our invasion and overthrow of the Taliban in Afganistan.
The Taliban banned opium poppy cultivation that had been going on for centuries. With our invasion, we had to make a compromise to keep the Afganistan economy from crumbling and to satisfy the regional warlords opium cultivation has resumed. Production of opium in Afganistan has risen 2000% since our invasion.
Quite a tradeoff, huh?
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 152
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Hi,
I don't follow these kind of news issues but the comment about the increase in US heroin supply surprised me. Where is there documentation on this? I will google it now. Sometimes I wonder if comments are political, anecdotal or based on fact.
GiantFan
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JBRONCFAN
Member
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 126
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I've always been under the pressumption pharm companies purchased opium to create narcotics. You can't make oxycodone in a lab. Pharm companies are the biggests buyers of opium. Gotta go to work now but maybe someone could google this subject and find out.
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 152
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They do make oxycodone in a lab - BUT - Thse words from the DEA -
Oxycodone, [4,5-epoxy-14-hydroxy-3-methoxy-17-methyl-morphinan-6-one, dihydrohydroxycodeinone] is a semi-synthetic opioid agonist derived from thebaine, a constituent of opium. Oxycodone will test positive for an opiate in the available field test kits. Pharmacology of oxycodone is essentially similar to that of morphine, in all respects, including its abuse and dependence liabilities. Pharmacological effects include analgesia, euphoria, feelings of relaxation, respiratory depression, constipation, papillary constriction, and cough suppression. A 10 mg dose of orally-administered oxycodone is equivalent to a 10 mg dose of subcutaneously administered morphine as an analgesic in the normal population. Oxycodones behavioral effects can last up to 5 hours. The drug is most often administered orally. The controlled-release product, OxyContin®, has a longer duration of action (8-12 hours). As with most opiates, oxycodone abuse may lead to dependence and tolerance. Acute overdose of oxycodone can produce severe respiratory depression, skeletal muscle flaccidity, cold and clammy skin, reduction in blood pressure and heart rate, coma, respiratory arrest, and death.
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Daeshay76
Board Addict
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 390
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i have been Rxed both the hydro 10/325 and percs 10/325 by my pain clinic and i can not tell the difference in either. i can not tell that the percs are any stronger than the hydro but thats just me. could it be that i have been on pain meds for so many years? i am also taking 60mg of avinza twice daily and the percs for break-through and i have no relief at all....any suggestions on what i can ask the doc for on my next appointment for long acting and for breakthrough that may be a little stronger and more helpful for my pain? i suffer from fibro and diabetic problems....TIA
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TTFREE
Newbie
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 40
Loc: MD USA
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oh Yes Coming off Oxycontin can be the worst thing (feeling) one would go through. Said the same feeling a heroin user quitting goes through. Now you know why all those people were robing them pharms at gunpoint and it made such a stink in the news. bummer...
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Chance Favors the Prepared Mind !
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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 156
Loc: SE USA
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Daeshay76,
I'd suggest you ask your doctor for 2 or 4mg dilaudid for breakthrough pain, given that you're on time release morphine. That might work. If not, nothing gained nothing lost.
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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line6ampman
Stranger
Reged: 10/22/04
Posts: 6
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or you could always try the fentanyl patch. It might help for breakthrough pain.
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Daeshay76
Board Addict
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 390
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this may be a stupid question but what is the dilaudid?? is it something close or similar to morphine? if so i dont think that will help becaue instead of taking the Avinza 60mg 2 times a day the last few days i have only taken it once but have taken 2 of the 60mg avinza still with no relief...TIA...also what is the patch that is being talked about...what it is similar to or equal to?
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clueless1
Newbie
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 28
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Dilaudid is a synthetic Morphine that loses a ton of bio availability in oral tabs. Not worth it.
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bobgates
Stranger
Reged: 11/22/04
Posts: 9
Loc: SoCal
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Dilaudid is hydromorphone and the instant release tablet form loses a lot of its potency in the stomach. Perdue Pharma, the creator of Oxycontin, will release a time-released form of dilaudid called Palladone next year, but I don't know whether that will help. It may be more effective because most of the drug will be released in the intestines, rather than the stomach, which is where most of the degradation occurs.
Maybe Oxycodone/IR/Oxyfast which is immediate release Oxycodone in a liquid or tablet form will help more than percocets, because you can take as much as necessary, based on your tolerance, without worrying about getting too much acetaminophen.
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TTFREE
Newbie
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 40
Loc: MD USA
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yes but what op has oxy IR's and your saying the dil's are weak for break through pain also... wow bummer!
thanks for the info as always :-)
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Chance Favors the Prepared Mind !
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