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neonsign2003
Veteran
Reged: 12/26/02
Posts: 504
Loc: midwest
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YOU ARE 100% RIGHT ABOUT COLD TURKEY WHEN IT COMES TO THE "FAST GUYS" WAY BACK IN THE 70S "WHITE CROSS" WAS AS EASY TO COME BY AS CHEWING GUM.....VERY BAD SEIZURES FOR ME.
HELL THEY TREATED ME FOR EPELSY FOR YEARS! HAVE NOT SEEN THEM FOR DECADES. PROBABLY TO Best if kept off the board OLD TO USE THEM NOW,
THERE WAS A TIME, I WOULD SET THE PILLS NEXT TO A GLASS OF WATER, SET MY ALARM CLOCK A HOUR EARLY, WHEN THE CLOCK WENT OFF, WASH THE PILLS DOWN WITH WATER, ROLL OVER GO BACK TO SLEEP,1/2 HOUR LATER.............ZOWIE!!! I AM READY FOR THE DAY.............YOUNG AND DUMB. I LIVED ON THEN FOR A DECADE! YEH, DELETE THIS POST, IT AIN'T THE 70S ANYMORE!
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bos
Newbie
Reged: 10/22/03
Posts: 40
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some form of natural MAOI might, but you should research that before you do it
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flippie
Member
Reged: 06/13/04
Posts: 103
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Which nootropics though? Some of them have exact opposite effects. Saying nootropics potentiate amphetamines is like saying shooting a high-powered rifle down a street will have an effect - it might kill an innocent nun, or it might accidently kill a terrorist agent who was about to blow up a building, or it might do nothing.
http://www.damicon.fi/sd/
Some amphetamine base chemicals are actually considered nootropics, too - 4-methyl-aminorex being one of them. That is the stuff that is sold on the street as "ice" and is usually refered to as smokable methamphetamine, although it is not. It is also called Eu4eah.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n2/062144ia.html
But a lot of nootropics are MAOIs, which may enhance amphetamines, but if you are using what are called "irreversable MAOIs" (look it up) which means any synthetic MAOI medication, then you will want to study your diet for a while before screwing with it. Just like Bos said, be careful with them.
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/MAOI-diet-update.html
MAO is essentially the "white blood cells" of the brain - they patrol the blood-brain barrier and keep toxins out. Inhibiting them can have wonderful effects on certain people, provided they are careful with their diet - but MAO protects us against things like fermented foods. Take an irreversable MAOI and eat a big plate of cheese, and see if your friends can get you to the hospital in time. 
I would stick with grapefruit juice. Far too many medical journal articles have been written on its effects on the P450 enzyme, and there is no doubt that it will increase the effect of amphetamines, without having to fast for a week to be safe.
BTW there are also what are called REVERSABLE MAOIs - they are usually found in various plants, like those used to make tryptamine alkaloids orally active for ritual purposes. Ayahuasca, for example, has been used for thousands of years by tribes on opposite sides of the planet who never communicated. They found tryptamine-containing plants and learned to mix them with naturally-occuring reversable MAOIs to they could essentially trip on DMT. They fasted for a week before this trip - maybe not so much for spiritual reasons as because even reversable MAOIs can kill, if the wrong contents are still waiting to cross the BBB.
http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm is a nice list of some MAOI information, from the perspective of this thread.
Moral of the story - if you are going to use nootropics, do a LOT of research, because there are literally at least a thousand of them, and each is as different as night and day.
If you are going to use an MAOI, be prepared to take your life into your hands. (The extreme danger of synthetic irreversable MAOIs cannot be understated, and that is why they are among the most rare psychopharmacologically active drugs ever prescribed.
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excellence
Stranger
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 19
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Try Piracetam + Hydergine + Choline. You may end up eventually giving up amphetamines altogether!
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Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
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Quote:
Which nootropics though? Some of them have exact opposite effects. Saying nootropics potentiate amphetamines is like saying shooting a high-powered rifle down a street will have an effect - it might kill an innocent nun, or it might accidently kill a terrorist agent who was about to blow up a building, or it might do nothing.
http://www.damicon.fi/sd/
Some amphetamine base chemicals are actually considered nootropics, too - 4-methyl-aminorex being one of them. That is the stuff that is sold on the street as "ice" and is usually refered to as smokable methamphetamine, although it is not. It is also called Eu4eah.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n2/062144ia.html
But a lot of nootropics are MAOIs, which may enhance amphetamines, but if you are using what are called "irreversable MAOIs" (look it up) which means any synthetic MAOI medication, then you will want to study your diet for a while before screwing with it. Just like Bos said, be careful with them.
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/MAOI-diet-update.html
MAO is essentially the "white blood cells" of the brain - they patrol the blood-brain barrier and keep toxins out. Inhibiting them can have wonderful effects on certain people, provided they are careful with their diet - but MAO protects us against things like fermented foods. Take an irreversable MAOI and eat a big plate of cheese, and see if your friends can get you to the hospital in time.
I would stick with grapefruit juice. Far too many medical journal articles have been written on its effects on the P450 enzyme, and there is no doubt that it will increase the effect of amphetamines, without having to fast for a week to be safe.
BTW there are also what are called REVERSABLE MAOIs - they are usually found in various plants, like those used to make tryptamine alkaloids orally active for ritual purposes. Ayahuasca, for example, has been used for thousands of years by tribes on opposite sides of the planet who never communicated. They found tryptamine-containing plants and learned to mix them with naturally-occuring reversable MAOIs to they could essentially trip on DMT. They fasted for a week before this trip - maybe not so much for spiritual reasons as because even reversable MAOIs can kill, if the wrong contents are still waiting to cross the BBB.
http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm is a nice list of some MAOI information, from the perspective of this thread.
Moral of the story - if you are going to use nootropics, do a LOT of research, because there are literally at least a thousand of them, and each is as different as night and day.
If you are going to use an MAOI, be prepared to take your life into your hands. (The extreme danger of synthetic irreversable MAOIs cannot be understated, and that is why they are among the most rare psychopharmacologically active drugs ever prescribed.
Yeah, for sure, do the research here!!! Dabbling with MAOIs could lead to heart attacks and strokes. As an aside, MAOs stand for "monoamine oxidases". They are located in the space between neurons, and in neurons. They help to break down neurotransmitters like dopamine that otherwise may accumulate in the space between neurons, and within neurons that have sucked the neurotranmitters back in. They don't roam the blood-brain barrier and keep toxins out, as far as I know. I'm not sure how they would do it, either, since oxidizing chemicals usually makes them more toxic.
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excellence
Stranger
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 19
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Maybe that is why FDA has not actually approved nootropics for use in the US, because they may be MAOIs! LOL
By the way, star/flippie, is Piracetam/Hydergine MAOI?
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chgrn
Stranger
Reged: 09/12/04
Posts: 15
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The cerebral cortex in humans and animals is divided into two hemispheres- the left and right cortex. In most humans the left hemisphere (which controls the right side of the body) is the language center, as well as the dominant hemisphere. The left cortex will tend to be logical, analytical, linguistic and sequential in its information processing, while the right cortex will usually be intuitive, holistic, picture oriented and simultaneous in its information processing. Research has shown most people favor one hemisphere over the other, with the dominant cortex being more electrically active and the nondominant cortex relatively more electrically silent (when the person is being tested or asked to solve problems, or respond to information). The two cortical hemispheres are linked by a bundle of nerve "cables"; the corpus callosum and the anterior commisure. In theory these two structures should unite the function of the two hemispheres; in practice they act more like a wall separating them. This "functionally-split" neurology produces a parallel set of dichotomies in consciousness; logic vs. intuition; reason vs. emotion; analysis vs. synthesis; parts vs. whole; words vs. pictures; science vs. art and religion, etc. The word "nootropic" is derived from the Greek word "nous" (the more standard philosophical spelling). Yet in the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle, "nous" did not simply mean "mind." In ancient Greek philosophy, "nous" referred to the faculty of "higher mind" or "reason," as opposed to the more concrete, sensory oriented mind which humans share even with the lower animals. And "reason" did not merely mean logic or analysis.
The Greek philosophers saw the role of philosophy to be a method of developing and perfecting nous/ reason. They understood nous/ reason to be the integrative mind, where logic works complementarily with intuition, and reason and emotion are in harmony. With a developed nous, one could clearly see and understand "the forest and the trees" simultaneously. From a modern neurological perspective it is obvious that the cerebral basis for a well-functioning nous would be the effective, complementary, simultaneous integrated function of cortical hemispheres, with neither hemisphere being automatically dominant or silent.
This in turn would require the corpus callosum and anterior commisure to optimize information flow between the two hemispheres. Research has shown the Piracetam-nootropics to facilitate such intercebral information transfer- indeed, it's part of the definition of a "nootropic drug."
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Nulla dies sine linea.
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chgrn
Stranger
Reged: 09/12/04
Posts: 15
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In spite of the many and diverse neurological and psychological benefits they have shown in human, animal and cell studies, the Piracetam-nootropics are generally considered NOT to be major agonists or inhibitors of the synaptic action of most neurotransmitters. Thus, major nootropic researchers Pepeu and Spignoli (1990) state: "the pyrrolidinone derivatives [Piracetam-nootropics] show little or no affinity for CNS receptors for dopamine, glutamate, serotonin, GABA, or benzodiazepine ... So far, little effect of nootropic drugs has been demonstrated on brain monoamine and aminoacid neurotransmitters' metabolism and release."
They also note however that "... a number of investigations on the electrophysiological actions of nootropic drugs have been carried out ... Taken together, these findings indicate that the nootropic drugs of the [Piracetam-type] enhance neuronal excitability within specific neuronal pathways."
Gouliaev and Senning similarly state "... we think that the racetams exert their effect on some species [of molecule] present in the membrane of all excitable cells, i.e. the ion carriers or ion channels and that they somehow accomplish an increase in the excitatory response ... It would therefore seem that the racetams act as potentiators of an already present activity (also causing the increase in glucose utilization observed), rather than possessing any activity of their own, in keeping with their very low toxicity and lack of serious side effects. The result of their action is therefore an increase in general ne sensitivity towards stimulation."
Thus the Piracetam-nootropics would NOT be prone to the (often serious effects of drugs which directly amplify or inhibit neurotransmitter c e.g. MAOI, Prozac-style SSRIs, tricyclic antidepressants, amphetamines, benzodiazepines, etc. The notable absence of biochemical, physiological, neurotogical, psychological side effects, even with high dose and/or long term nootropic use, is routinely attested to in the vast literature on them. Thus in their 1977 review Giurgea and Salama point out: "Piracetam active in previously described situations, is devoid of usual 're pharmacologic activities even in high doses ... In normal subjects ... no side effects or 'doping' effects were ever observed. Nor did Piracetam induce any sedation, tranquillization, locomotor stimulation or psychodysleptic symptomatology.
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Nulla dies sine linea.
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inndut
Stranger
Reged: 09/19/04
Posts: 7
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Deprenyl (Selegiline) is MAOI, Piracetam and Hydergine are not.
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coruleus
Stranger
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 10
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Well, lemme say you smth: you should first try to augment the effect of the amphetamine itself, before actually looking for another med to synergize its effects ... for instance, it is an well-known fact that the absorption and effects of amphetamines are among other things, dependent on the pH of the stomach and the urine. An alkaline agent such as Baking Soda (dissolved in water) increases the absorption of amphetamines in the stomach, and baking soda in higher doses makes the urine alkaline, greatly slowing the elimination and thus prolonging the duration and effects of amphetamines (although taking baking soda for this effect is supposed to be pretty bad for your health -- your body constantly tries to find a pH equilibrium, in both the stomach and especially in the blood which is neutral in pH, except with severe dehydration or serious health problems.) Acidic agents/food/drinks such as certain fruit juices decrease the duration and effect of amphetamines (thus it is better to drink water with Adderall/Dexedrine instead of fruit juice or Colas.) Ritalin, on the other hand, is unaffected by these acid/alkaline food and drink restrictions but unlike amphetamines, its absorption is greatly reduced when there is food in the stomach. It extent of absorption differs radically in different people, between 30 - 70% is absorbed. Amphetamines taken on a full stomach are absorbed to the same extent but the time to peak blood level is increased, so the effects won't feel as 'powerful'.
That said, another trick to use to boost the effect of the amphetamines is to drink your own urine (I know, I know!) so that you'll recycle the amount of amphetamine that is excreted unchanged in the urine -- under normal conditions, about 30% of amphetamine is excreted unchanged in the urine but this excretion is highly variable and is dependent on urinary pH. When the urinary pH is acidic (pH 5.5 to 6.0), elimination is predominantly by urinary excretion with approximately 60% of a dose of amphetamine being excreted unchanged by the kidney within 48 hours. When the urinary pH is alkaline (pH 7.5 to 8.0), elimination is predominantly by deamination (less than 7% excreted unchanged in the urine); the half-life ranging from 16 to 31 hours (Ellenhorn, 1997). Well, 60% is not bad at all, I think, although well below the 80% rate for Ephedrine -- in normal subjects 70-80% of Ephedrine is eliminated unchanged in the urine within 48 hours.
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Nulla est medicina sine lingua Latina.
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mommiegirl
Stranger
Reged: 11/10/04
Posts: 11
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Another means to increase the absorption of amphetamines is what has been called "parachuting" -- you grind the pills, place them in tissue paper, and drop them down your throat -- you get all the drugs surface area, even more than when you snort it.
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 228
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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Hi - you dont need to use tissue paper - gelcaps work fine. But snorting (or even sublingal(gum) absorbtion) is different. blood capillaries in the nose (and gums) absorb 40-60% of the drug present directly into bloodstream. it bypasses the whole stomach/liver absorbtion. the unabsorbd drug (i.e. drip)them is processed in the stomach. It has nothing to do with surface area. This is bord\ering on abuse though.
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mommiegirl
Stranger
Reged: 11/10/04
Posts: 11
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Well, to say the truth, sometimes I can't believe people go about recklessly insufflating any substance they can crush and snort. Apart from intravenous (injection) or pulmonary absorbtion (smoked), nasal insufflation (snorting) is the next most intense way of rapidly absorbing amphetamines. If you do it often enough, you will develop sinusitis. If you use dirty surfaces to snort from, you are stupid. If you use credit cards to crush pills and make lines, you are stupid. If you snort with rolled currency, you are stupid. Most tables, credit cards and currency are absolutely filthy with contaminants and pathogens.
If you insufflate, use less rather than more. Try the rest orally (swallowed) or sublingually (under the tongue). Sublingual administration of amphetamine is way underrated: it is a lot safer than insufflation (for frequent use), it is absorbed quite rapidly (mere minutes to first effects, much faster than in the stomach), and you can easily take small boost or maintenance doses frequently without all the hassle of preparing your precious crystalline hcl alkaloids for insufflation.
So unless you plan to start free basing and injecting or smoking your amphetamines, you are left with oral, sublingual or insufflaton as your other methods of consumption. Why not actually think about what you are doing, and try to maximize your effects while minimizing your doses and risks to your health. Get your high, but avoid developing tolerance. It will only cost you a lot more money for all the extra drug that you'll need to keep getting high because you never bothered to limit your dosing and avoid escalating your tolerance. Why not occasionally insufflate a little (say 5mg), or take it sublingually (5mg), and most orally (10-?? mg). You can balance your high that way and keep your speed under your control.
If you develop a careful regimen, you will be able to stay up for sustained periods, get a lot of useful things done, avoid getting too speedy, minimize your comedown effects (usually with smaller fading doses), and actually still live by some kind of schedule so you can have a life and have your fun too. Be smart, not stupid when playing with psychoactives.
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apropos
Stranger
Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 10
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Quite interesting, mommie! Your post is marked by originality, resourcefulness, and cleverness in conception or execution! 
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