indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 52
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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I read in a couple recent articles about the closures of some pharmacies/ops in Florida and the sources stated that some of these pharm's were filling 1,000 scripts/day; going through millions of tabs a month.
These places must be raking in 10's of thousands of $$$ a week, no?
Not to mention that many OP's markup the price of medications above and beyond the pharmacy's markup - which is illegal by Federal law - there are only a couple OP's that I know of that don't do this ...
And what about the actual manufacturer's like Watson, etc?
If any of these OP's were smart, they would try to get together with some of the pharmaceutical mfg's (big money), and maybe pull together to create either a formal or informal lobbyist organization to at least publicize or fight some of the upcoming bills in congress to shut them down and/or oppose national databases that would track pain patients and controlled substance scripts a lot more closely than they do now.
I mean, some of these places are literally making millions of dollars a year; they could form a pretty healthy lobby - and with mfg's behind them, they would really have some clout.
It's all about the money, and unless someone somewhere starts organizing, even record OP's will see their day - as the law is right now, the FDA and DEA require an actual physical examination to establish a Dr. - patient relationship - a phone consult and faxed records, no matter how good, are not legal. Maybe a phone consult while a nurse does a physical on you at the same time, but even that enters a grey area.
It's sad because some of us have a real legitimate need for online OP's ...
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"10,000 years of revolution have done nothing but change the face of the oppressor"
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Unnamed
Newbie
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Heart of Dixie
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Quote:
...as the law is right now, the FDA and DEA require an actual physical examination to establish a Dr. - patient relationship - a phone consult and faxed records, no matter how good, are not legal.
As I understand it this is not the law (the law is a "valid doctor-patient relationship"), but rather the DEA's official interpretation of the law. Not that this makes much difference, since in actual practice, and clearly in terms of perceived self-importance, the DEA is, in fact, the law--and might as well be the doctors and the patients for all the respect those two groups are given.
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edward73
Member
Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 120
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Im in the wrong business. Another question, how do these pharmacies obtain the tens of thousands or more of pills they distribute every month without rasing a huge red flag to the powers that be?
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trippinwilly
Journeyman
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Florida
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All of these NROP's are Billy Bob operations, probally run out of somebody's garage in Miami. I'd like to see what one of these places actually looked like. As to how they get that many pills, I have no idea, but I would like to meet their hookup.
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Harry
Newbie
Reged: 10/16/02
Posts: 33
Loc: NE
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How many Mom and Pop Pharmacies have closed in your hood... the only one's left are Large Chain (i.e wal-mart, target, etc) and I guess now the Fly by Night OP's or NROP's - so which will it be.........you tell me please ... your choice ... Your Choice or the DEA's Choice ... the lawyers and Insurance have not left me much of a choice... which Dr I may see; which Pharmacy I may use ... and of course if I choose the InterNet then the DEA says ....... then the lawyers SUE them ALL ..... ??? ??? ???? !!! !!!! Yes it is about MONEY .... but I will pay it for MY CHOICE
Edited by Harry (11/27/04 09:27 AM)
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bluez
Banned
Reged: 11/04/04
Posts: 81
Loc: Arizona
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Billy Bob operations - LOL - good one. These guys make a ton of money which is why they take the risk. And justify it as we might, it's definitely this side of legal. Remember how many cars & how much money they found when Dan the Man's business was, ahem, interrupted? Lure of easy money, etc. Supply & demand? Any other cliches we can come up with? Take care all.
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says he isn ot with op but is always fighting with chris who thinks he is one of hte owners at nww
banned for being trouble in that and since he says he isn ot with nww: no problem
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 168
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I have no idea how NROPS do business but use your imagination. Things "fall off trucks", workers are bribed, whatever. I do not know anything about it.
Record OPS. All pharmacies have to be legally set up in each state they will sell or ship to. Once a pharmacy is set up, they can legally fill legit doctors presciptions.
They can legally buy medications from Pharmas (big and small). Record Ops are sometimes set up where the doctor works for the "owner" (or has some relationship) and the Web site and backroon operation is also the Owner's. Some operations may have their pharmacy closed down by the DEA. This process is interesting since it seems to lack normal due process. It is like "you are guilty until proven innocent". These cases are publicized by the DEA and they try to take the obvious assets of the alleged offenders, (the owners). Many owners of operations spring up again, sometimes with the same name but with a different pharmacy. Its like a cat, mouse game. Just make as much money (and hide it, Caymans, Switzerland), buying boats and cars isn't smart.
As far as the money record OPS make. It must be in the millions (per year). This isn't pretty but chronic pain isn't either. Pain sufferers are paying thriugh the nose to be able to function. What is the real crime?
MetsFan
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Unnamed
Newbie
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Heart of Dixie
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Quote:
Pain sufferers are paying thriugh the nose to be able to function. What is the real crime?
Creating something as awful as the Drug War to begin with, which a) causes pain sufferers to suffer unnececssarily (and go broke trying to find relief) and b) makes criminals rich.
All for the sake of the noble cause of Stopping People From Doing Things I Don't Approve Of.
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 52
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Quote:
Quote:
...as the law is right now, the FDA and DEA require an actual physical examination to establish a Dr. - patient relationship - a phone consult and faxed records, no matter how good, are not legal.
As I understand it this is not the law (the law is a "valid doctor-patient relationship"), but rather the DEA's official interpretation of the law. Not that this makes much difference, since in actual practice, and clearly in terms of perceived self-importance, the DEA is, in fact, the law--and might as well be the doctors and the patients for all the respect those two groups are given.
Thanks for the clarification - you are right.
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indecline
Journeyman
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 52
Loc: I'm somewhere where I don't kn...
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Quote:
Im in the wrong business. Another question, how do these pharmacies obtain the tens of thousands or more of pills they distribute every month without rasing a huge red flag to the powers that be?
Actually, this is exactly how a pharmacy got investigated (and what inspired my post) ... which led to the subsequent bust of the OP.
It was a newspaper article I read, can't remember exactly who the parties involved were (I think the pharma was in Ohio), but nonetheless, it stated that the pharmacy caught the eye of authorities because they were filling 1,000 scripts a day (mostly for hydro).
There are probably others on here who can clarify a lot better than I, but as far as I know, the DEA does keep track of how many controlled substance scripts are written and/or filled by each registered Dr. with a DEA #. How closely they actually monitor this, I have no idea (think of how many Dr.'s are in the country). Of course with computer databases and interconnectivity (internet) this probably isn't as hard as it appears.
There is a post in the Law forum about a bill in congress right now (set for Jan. 2005) that would expand the DEA's database to include patient information for each of those CS scripts.
As I said before, if the OPs, pharmas, and mfgs could create a lobby organization - they could help their own cause - sadly, this is the only way things like this get done in government - pain patients just aren't a big enough story for people too busy to even read past a 30-second headline.
Some people might say that major pharmaceutical manufacturers might not want to be associated with such a borderline venture, BUT:
a) given the # of sales some of these OPs are generating, I am positive the money is too good to give up; after all, companies like Watson and Abbott are businesses, and the bottom line is $$$ - I wouldn't be surprised if OP's are doubling hydro sales for mfg's.
b) just because Watson, or Abbott, or whomever, would join forces with OP's and their affiliates (pharmacies) doesn't mean they necessarily have to attach their names to any common cause. "Think tanks" and lobby organizations are always formed as smoke screens to various other entities, filtering money through "sister" companies, etc.
I don't know, whose to say that OPs aren't a result of pharmaceutical mfgs in the first place?
It would be interesting to put together a little spreadsheet with a graph that shows the correlation between major pharmaceutical manufacturer earnings (usually reported in quarters) vs. the popularity/earnings/number of OPs (whatever info available).
For instance, if OPs started really taking off in 1998 (I have no idea) - how much of a spike would some of these mfgs be showing in profits? I mean, I'm guessing this has turned into a huge market for them if you consider the number of tabs being scripted and sold all over the country everyday online ...
sorry for rambling;
indecline
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