jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 47
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I've recently been experimenting with different Benzodiazipines to find the one that is best for me. I know effects can vary from person to person but I'm wondering if what I've been experiencing is typical. I've only been using them off and on for a couple weeks in average to lower than average doses, some days not at all, so while I've probably built some tolerance its not that much. I'm an 180 lbs. male if that makes a difference.
Alprazolam (Xanax - the purple bars) - Fast onset (20-30 minutes) but I really don't Notice it that much at .5mg or less, it seems like I need about .75mg or 1mg to feel any significant effects. Short acting, seems to wear off in about 3 hours.
Lorazepam (Trapax - the yellow tablets) - This stuff seems to have a really slow onset which is why I think seem people write it off as not being as effective as Xanax. It sneaks up on you. But the published equivalents is that Lorazepam is 50% less potent than Alprazolam, so this means I would need 2mg to feel the effect to the equivalent of 1mg Xanax. I've been trying the 2.5mg Trapax brand and I barely feel anything. Seems like I need to take 3-4mg to feels the same thing as 1-1.5mg of Xanax. Maybe this Wyeth Trapax brand just isn't as potent as the Wyeth Ativan brand or since I'm comparing to the more pronounced effects of Xanax, I'm understimating its actual effectiveness?
Clonazepam (Rivotril. white crisr cross scored tablets) - This stuff is suppose to be really potent, twice as potent as Xanax on all the equivalency charts. I'll take 1mg (supposed same as 2mg Xanax) of it and I don't feel a thing. And its suppose to have a fas onset. I even have the actual Rivotril brand. I think its working as I do feel just a slight bit sleepy, but very slight, It is more subtle of an effect than even the Lorzezepam. Seems liek 2mg is the threshold when I start to feel it, but that's suppose to me like taking 4mg Xanax - no way. This stuff scares me, but I here it is the best of the three since the long half life and more subtle effects are less prone to addiction/withdrawl but I would want to try coming off this stuff at 2-4mg a day!
Diazepam (Valium) - I link the effect of this stuff best. It comes one fairly quick, you can feel it wihtout taking larged doses, 10mg seems to work good for me, and it lasts pretty long, you could get by with 2 10mg a day. Only thing is the half life is huge so the matabolites really build up over time, but that is suppose to be good since this is the drug used to come off the other shorter half life benzos.
I should not, I'm not using these for panic attacks but General Anxiety Disorder. I think part of the problem was that my initial expectations were that these trugs were REALLY going to make me feel relaxed and care free. The don't really seem to do that for me at these doses, just barely. Are my expectation to high or am I taking a bit lower average doses that most people (at least what most people are willing to admit too.)
I've been altering between them trying to keep a good baseline metabolite in my system witht the valium but using the short half life ones some days to keep the valium from building up too much. I think its a good strategy. I'm most dissapointed with the Lorazepam, I though 2.5mg was going to be enough to really relax me and it doesn't I've heard the Trapax brand may be the problem.
I am aware of the slow taper process necessary to come off these.
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oothibo
Newbie
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 28
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I posted another topic recently about my experiences with clonazepam. I am on .5 but take 1mg (to get to sleep mainly). I feel like when I take it during the day (I only take .5 mg) it makes me REALLY tired and feel kinda out of sorts. Plus, it really decreases my cognitive ability and the next day I feel 'hazy'.
I had no idea this was supposed to be the "strongest" of the bunch. I have not tried anything else but am going back to the doc next week and am going to ask for something different.
I don't really know if your expectations are set too high or not. If you are looking to feel carefree, then you probably are not going to get this from an anxiety drug.
Has anyone recommended an antidepressant? They often work really well for people with generalized anxiety disorders. I know Zoloft, Paxil and Prozac are all supposed to be great for anxiety (I took Zoloft but it too made me really tired and the withdrawl from it was a week of hell...and I was on they lowest dose possible). My grandmother takes it for depression and swears it saved her life, so just like every other drug it probably effects different people differently.
I have heard Prozac doesn't make you tired and really helps with anxiety too. By the way I suffer from panic attacks and stress induced hyperventilation (its not really hyperventillation, its more like the feeling of when you are not able to get enough air into your lungs). The last doc I talked to said that when the SSRIs really should have been labelled for anxiety instead of depression so maybe that would be an avenue you might want to explore????
Good luck!
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leap
Journeyman
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 51
Loc: northeasterly
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You said: "I think part of the problem was that my initial expectations were that these trugs were REALLY going to make me feel relaxed and care free. The don't really seem to do that for me at these doses, just barely. Are my expectation to high or am I taking a bit lower average doses that most people (at least what most people are willing to admit too.)"
I think you've hit it, your expectations are too high.
I've been trying to do a similar thing as you, experimenting with benzo's, but trying to stay away from tolerance. When i first took benzo's i did feel relaxed & care free, 10 mg of valium before a medical proceedure had me in an enjoyable state and 1 mg of lorazpam every few hrs. made the 2 day flight to India last winter tolerable, but mostly forgettable, I watched the matrix 3rd movie on the flight & don't remember it at all! i probably was eating the .5 lorazpams like candy, don't remember. I then went on to taking 1 mg, perhaps more a day for 3 weeks. Came home stopped the lorazpam & discovered withdrawal! I tapered off in week or two.
Next time I fly, i'll try valium.
You'd think i'd know better, but I've been using them again.
Now it's different, I hate to say this, but now all i notice is when I don't have any/enough benzo in my system. In other words, if i take some i feel nothing/normal, if i don't i feel bad; anxious, depressed. I was not able to keep my intake to once a week or so, it is every day.
Xanax, i can still feel; relaxed then sleepy, then depressed and feeling like having another pill. From what I've read on this board I've decided that xanax is too dangerous (addictive) for me.
I'm currently tapering off with klonopin (i don't feel anything either, but now I'm down to .5 K a day and plan to be done within a week.
The tolerance/dependency happened so fast this time!
I wish we had some pharmacists or MD's on the board who really could explain this stuff.
i wish there was an antianxiety drug that worked (for me)without dependence & other bad side effects.
Good luck with your exploration, keep us informed, this is one of my favorite threads.
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poppyale
Member
Reged: 06/15/04
Posts: 127
Loc: united states of america
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I do not know where you are getting your info about the equivelency of benzo's but Know way is klonopin stronger than xanax!!!Xanax is the strongest benzo there is.
Also I have never heard of purple bars,are you geting them from another country?How many mg's are they?I Find this very interesting I would like to know more about the purple bars,I have only seen white and yellow bars they are both 2mg
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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As far as I know, Purple Xanax (or what some of the people I know from the generation before me have referred to as "Purple People Eaters"), haven't been available in the US for a long time. I've gotten them from IOP's, and really didn't see much of a difference between them and the regular blue 1 mg footballs here in the US, to be quite honest.
I'm not sure what the dosage was for Purple Xanax, since they were also making blue footballs at the same time, but my older sisters and those who were around when they were still being manufactured in the US have all said that they were the strongest benzo's they've ever taken. I guess since I'm not a recreational user of them, all I really care about is whether or not they work, but they do still make them in other countries.
Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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wyspur
Stranger
Reged: 03/04/04
Posts: 1
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xanax is not the strongest benzo out there.It is just fast acting and its effects are noticed sooner.flunitrazepam is the strongest benzo that is available.There are stronger ones that are not available.Klonopin last much longer than xanax,and some people think it is stronger because it lasts so long.but it doesnt even last as long as valium,which we all know is not very strong.The purple xanax are awsome but I havent seen them for years.They worked best for my panic disorder amazingly.
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Wyspur,
I've found that Xanax in general is what works best for my anxiety & panic, although my old doctor wouldn't agree with that statement...lol.
I was wondering if you could remember what the dosage was on the Purple Xanax, were they comparable to the Xanax bars of today? If so, then that's way too strong of a dose for me, personally, but as I said in my previous post, I've heard stories about "Purple People Eaters" being pretty strong. The ones that I've gotten from IOP's were football shaped and marked as 1 mg, so they're probably just some other foreign pharmaceutical company's brand of the blues that we have here.
I've never tried Flunitrazepam, aren't they the same thing as the famous "date rape" drug Rohypnol? Correct me if I'm wrong. Needless to say, I'd never try those...lol.
I've also been hearing about 1.5 mg Xanax, but I've never seen what they look like, has anyone ever had any experiences with those? Just curious...
Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 204
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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Great for panic disorder..but social anxiety and general anxiety for regular use, you need a steady med with no quick up or down. Klonopin rules there after many years, when you become tolerant.
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moonshade
Old Hand
Reged: 12/01/02
Posts: 454
Loc: searching for my lost shaker o...
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For me, xanax (or some generic versions of it )work the best.
The others have minimal effect. I think , for me, anyway, the fact that I started out on xanax, and my body chemistry got used to it, contributes to why the others I have tried just don't do the trick.
If one has never taken xanax before,on a regular basis, I would think they'd be more prone to get better relief/results from other benzos.
My opinion, and just speaking from personal experience.
Everyone's body is different, and many people have had different experiences.
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*** insert profound statement here ***
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 204
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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[censored] Moonshade..your avatar is making me tired. I don't know how long you have taken Xanax..works great...every other day...every day for a year maybe..but you gain a tolerance with everyday over the years quicker than others. Just my experience. I went from the middle dose to the Larges dose in no time. I switched to Klonopin, middle dose... and still don't need to go to the 2mg after 6 years. As I say just my experience and my wife found that out too
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Moonshade,
I agree. When I first got diagnosed with anxiety & panic, I was prescribed Xanax. I've tried other benzo's since then, but none of them have given me the same level of effectiveness as Xanax for my condition. I guess since I knew that they had worked for me in the past, and the others that I've tried gave me unwanted, longer lasting grogginess effects, that's why I've always stuck with them.
Now it seems as if a lot of doctors are starting patients off with Klonopin, since it's supposedly "safer" than Xanax or Valium, but for me, the side effects I get from taking it just aren't my thing. To each his/her own, I suppose...
Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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moonshade
Old Hand
Reged: 12/01/02
Posts: 454
Loc: searching for my lost shaker o...
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I have been fortunate to be able to stay on a 1 mg dose for 2 years now.( alprazolam )
Hope my tolerance level stays the same.
But yes, I do understand this is not the normal case for many people, and believe I am one of the rare exceptions.
Yes- to each their own.
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*** insert profound statement here ***
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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I started out on 0.5 mg, with directions to take it twice a day, one in the morning and one before bedtime. Since I was working with children at the time of my diagnosis, I wasn't able to take the morning dose, because the drowsy side effects would have impaired my ability to drive or function at my job.
Plus, at the time, I was prone to "noctornal" panic attacks...I used to wake up in the middle of the night thinking that somebody had broken into my apartment and was going to rape or kill me. I found out much later why I was having those thoughts, as irrational as they seemed at the time, it all made sense after some repressed memories and family secrets from my childhood came to light later on...but I don't want to steer this thread completely off topic.
After 4 years of taking them, I did manage to "graduate" to a 1 mg nightly dose, but I split it up. I'll take one half about an hour before bedtime and the other half right before I lay down, and I get a good night's sleep, and my nerves are steady during the next day. The few times that I took a 2 mg dose at night, I was knocked out!! So I guess my tolerance to them hasn't increased all that much over the years. I'd like to keep it that way.
Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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oldandwise
Member
Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 192
Loc: ky
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Here is a url to a great chart on benzo"s http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm
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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Ben Franklin
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