wyzguy
Newbie
Reged: 09/11/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Atl.
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My Dr switched me from Duragesic 75 to Dilaudid 4mg. How effective are "D"'s as opposed to oxycodone,morphine,etc for pain. I know we're all different, just in general. Thanks in advance for your opinions.
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 484
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You are going to looooove the Dilaudid compared to the Duragesic. Let me know if you don't and I will eat my hat. My understanding is that Dilaudid is hydromorphone (synthesized heroin).
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 242
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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4mg Dilaudid..Rules for Pain. Much sronger than Hydro's. Dilaudid is hydromorphone.
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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 185
Loc: SE USA
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Dilaudid is the number one choice for junkies over heroin if that says anything to you.
Some chronic pain sufferers think that it's looses a bit of it's efficacy when taken orally. Taken via IV it's pain killing properties are phenomenally eurphoric according to all written data.
If it works for you, that's great. And that's the key, all these high end narcotics for pain treatment should be at the choice of the sufferer, i.e., whatever works best for you - then factoring in price secondly.
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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PugDog78
Newbie
Reged: 10/26/04
Posts: 34
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Dilaudid was Elvis Presley's favorite drug! Sounds funny but it is true.
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 242
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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All meds taken IV are stronger...if they can be IVed or IM.. The test of pain pills is there effectiveness orally compared to others. Dilaudid is much more effective orally than morphine.
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 242
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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#1 replacement..that is.
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 230
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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Quote:
You are going to looooove the Dilaudid compared to the Duragesic. Let me know if you don't and I will eat my hat. My understanding is that Dilaudid is hydromorphone (synthesized heroin).
diacteylmorphine and hydromorphone are two very different drugs- herion (diacetylmorphine) is much more sedating and longer acting than hydromorphone/ hydroM has a 2.5 hour half life/ also the relative potientials are different. Morph=1, HydroM=8, diAM(Herion)=2.5
Also herion is sch 1(one) with NO MEDICAL APPLICATIONS.
And , personally, I like the fennatyl(duragesic) for pain relief better - fewer side effects (sedation euphoria etc.)
And finally, the King as far as I'm concerned is oxymorphone (formally sold in tablet form in the US as dialotta) Has a Relative potiential of 15 to 1(to morphine) Mucho U4ea but a half life of only 1.6 hours. It is available now only for hospital use in injection form - unless you know a vet. or a chemist. Or you live in international waters , or a non-signitory country of the 1916 Narcotics control act. Or my uncle Luthers basement - anyway I forgot where I saw it last.
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 163
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Yes, from past memories dilaudid is very effective. Your comment about the afffects of duragesic surprised me. I heard that it was a strong euphoric type medication.
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kikigrll
Newbie
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 39
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When I was on the the Duragesic Patch, I could not even get out of the chair and when I did manage to, my feet just drug across the floor to get to where I needed to go.
I hated that stuff!
With Dilaudid, after the IV injection, all I wanted to do was walk around. The Hospital staff thought it to be strange. They joked about giving me the shot and watching me head outside with my 'rolling IV cart' to the parking garage to have a smoke.
I spent alot of my Hospital time in their parking garage until it was time for my next dose.
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armywife
Journeyman
Reged: 11/01/04
Posts: 55
Loc: mid-atlantic region
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It has been my experience that Dilauadid was an extreamly good pain reliever when given IV, but when given by pill for it lost a lot of power. And for me personally I had no side effects (euphoria, dizziness, ect.) with the pill form at all, but I still did have a little pain.
I hope it works well with you.
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kimbell1
Board Addict
Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 309
Loc: Route 666, Painville, Texas 6...
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What a crock that was. Elvis and his toy badge out to get all them drug users.
I am going to start lying and say I am not Texan but Canaian and get a voice coach to lose that horrible accent we southerners develope.
It has become a joke to be from the South.
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 230
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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It has become a joke to be from the South.
I was born in California and have a western accent (which few people who came here later recognise).
But my family were dustbowl arkies - AMERICAN BY BIRTH SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD.
Hope Neil Young does remember - that a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
Nowhere elnce in the country will you meet a total stranger and know his whole life story in 30 minutes - then you start looking for relatives - or at least people you both know.
And about racisism - I lived on the east coast for three years and never saw so much direct discrimination anywhere in the South or west as in the NE.
So thats my political 2 cents for theday!
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 484
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Quote:
It has become a joke to be from the South.
I was born in California and have a western accent (which few people who came here later recognise).
But my family were dustbowl arkies - AMERICAN BY BIRTH SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD.
Hope Neil Young does remember - that a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
Nowhere elnce in the country will you meet a total stranger and know his whole life story in 30 minutes - then you start looking for relatives - or at least people you both know.
And about racisism - I lived on the east coast for three years and never saw so much direct discrimination anywhere in the South or west as in the NE.
So thats my political 2 cents for theday!
Nice post, Rocky.
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I'm not a doctor, I just play one on a message forum!
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roop
Stranger
Reged: 06/24/04
Posts: 23
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Yep, nice post. I'm from Tennessee. I love all people from all types of various backgrounds. And I'm proud as hell to be from the south. I take kimball 1's comment as an insult. You may be ashamed kimball, but there's millions who aren't. People who are proud to have been brought up to respect elders, to learn a cordial demeanor, to know what it's like to come through hard times, know what it's like to fear God, to be a volunteer. We welcome anybody in. But just don't start putting us down like you did. OH yea, I like Elvis too. Don't mess with the king.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 555
Loc: Chicago
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Semi-Synthetics like Codeine (The Codones)
Vicodin . . . . . . . .Hydro - Codone (Hydrocodone)
Oxycontin/Percoset . . Oxy - Codone (Oxycodone)
Semi-Synthetics Like Morphine (The Morphones)
Dilaudid . . . . . . . Hydro - Morphone (Hydromorphone
Numorphan . . . . . . .Oxy - Morphone (Oxymorphone)
therefore:
Vicodin is to Percoset AS dilaudid is to Numorphan (OXYmorphone)
I wonder if Oxymorphone is dilaudid's better, just like oxycodone is hydrocodone's better.
Anyway, yes most people say that dilaudid works the best for pain. probably no one on this board as ever had oxymorphone as it has remained VERY obscure and seldom used.
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juliah1
Journeyman
Reged: 11/08/04
Posts: 50
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While in the hospital, I had great relief (and warm fuzzies) from dilaudid intraveneously. When I took it in pill form it was no good at all to me. Weird.
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scripts4me
Stranger
Reged: 11/01/04
Posts: 24
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I was reading the top half of this page and somebody said that they were takind duragesic and were switched to dilaudid.From my understanding duragesic is fentanyl,which is the only drug that carries the once popular street drug CHINA WHITE,which i believe is 200 percent stronger than heroin,which should be stronger than hydromorphone,but maybe i am wrong,if so somebody please correct me,thanks....peace out
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 555
Loc: Chicago
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its considered to be less bioavailible orally. and that makes sense since codeine is also absorbed better orally than morphine and dilaudid is a morphone
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Kaos
Stranger
Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 6
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Quote:
I was reading the top half of this page and somebody said that they were takind duragesic and were switched to dilaudid.From my understanding duragesic is fentanyl,which is the only drug that carries the once popular street drug CHINA WHITE,which i believe is 200 percent stronger than heroin,which should be stronger than hydromorphone,but maybe i am wrong,if so somebody please correct me,thanks....peace out
China White was a fancy name for a synthetic heroin that still exists in some places. It's basically heroin made with or from fetanyl. THe chemical in duragesic patches. 200% stronger? I don't know. On average I guess from my past experience (far away past  ) That is was about twice as strong but then that depends on how everything is cut and what not. But part per part assumed. Yeah 2 to 1 I guess I would say. The feeling is easily distinguishable though quite similar. Let me remind everyone to not take this as an endorsement for the use of any of the drugs mentioned. In fact the opposite. It was merely an opinion in response to a question about the topic.
Peace, Love, and Empathy
J
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fred_s
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 185
Loc: SE USA
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Actually hydromorphone and oxymorphone are very similar in effects, I've used both. Using either IV produces a 'rush' effect similar, but stronger and different, than that of morphine. For junkies, either is a favorite over heroin. Why? Because purchasing a yellow pill with the 'K' and a number '4' on it automatically lets the buyer know exactly what he/she is getting, opposed to an aluminum foil package with some powder in it.
One poster above described china white as fentynl, however that's incorrect. China white is heroin produced in SE Asia as opposed to the brown tar - brown sugar that is produced coming from Mexico.
Both heroin and the other drugs discribed above are powerful painkillers. The medical profession first came out with heroin for treatment of morphine addicts during the time of the civil war - saying it was a cure. Now they're touting Fentnyl as the cure all for chronic severe pain.
I don't know where this will all end, but the war on drugs seems to have no effect, and it can be sucessfully argued that it does nothing other than enrich the criminal elements, while those suffering severe pain are made to jump through difficult hurdles enriching the medical and legal professions.
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"One Lives But Once In This World"
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 163
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>>And about racisism - I lived on the east coast for three >>years and never saw so much direct discrimination >>anywhere in the South or west as in the NE.
I agree. I haved lived all over, except Texas. Racism in the Northeast is real. No doubt about it. Even the limousine liberals look down on the Black man. It is pathetic how we still blame the "Red" states for racism. The "Blue" state politicians only need African American for voting. Jut my honest opinion.
MetsFan.
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 163
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Please. Correct me if I am wrong. Dilaudid is adminisrtered intramuscularly, not intravienously.
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bmurphr1
Newbie
Reged: 04/07/04
Posts: 28
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Dilaudid can be given any way parenterally...skin-pop, IM, and IV.
Soon enough the new drug Palladone will be available. For those who don't know, it's the dilaudid continual release that lasts for up to 24 hours I believe. It goes from 12mg to 32mg per pill.
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Kaos
Stranger
Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Actually hydromorphone and oxymorphone are very similar in effects, I've used both. Using either IV produces a 'rush' effect similar, but stronger and different, than that of morphine. For junkies, either is a favorite over heroin. Why? Because purchasing a yellow pill with the 'K' and a number '4' on it automatically lets the buyer know exactly what he/she is getting, opposed to an aluminum foil package with some powder in it.
One poster above described china white as fentynl, however that's incorrect. China white is heroin produced in SE Asia as opposed to the brown tar - brown sugar that is produced coming from Mexico.
Both heroin and the other drugs discribed above are powerful painkillers. The medical profession first came out with heroin for treatment of morphine addicts during the time of the civil war - saying it was a cure. Now they're touting Fentnyl as the cure all for chronic severe pain.
I don't know where this will all end, but the war on drugs seems to have no effect, and it can be sucessfully argued that it does nothing other than enrich the criminal elements, while those suffering severe pain are made to jump through difficult hurdles enriching the medical and legal professions.
Actually the poster who mentioned it being fetanyl is quite correct I have had the drug given to me in a hospital and bought it off the street in my younger days. The taste and feeling it gives is unmistakable. Just for a little proof here is an except and a link from a 30 second google search.
Also there is many other places that heroin comes from. There is not just the "tar" heroin you speak of and "china white".
NAME: CHINA WHITE, FENTANYL, SYNTHETIC HEROIN, MPPP
CLASSIFICATION: Opiates
TYPE: Synthetic Legal and illegal
EXPLANATION: China White is sometimes the pure, white heroin from the fertile Crescent in south east Asia shipped in via Hong Kong drug lords. Fentanyl was developed originally as a short acting anesthetic. Also made in the illicit labs. for street use. Very potent, 200-1 000 times as potent as morphine. MPPP is especially dangerous because trace amounts of an incredibly toxic chemical impurity may be left in it with resulting permanent brain damage. The dopamine neurons are destroyed which results in a severe, irreversible and progressive Parkinsonian disease state.
METHOD OF USE: I/V
DURATION OF ACTION: 2 hrs.
DETECTION IN URINE SCREENING: Not listed
PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS: Rapid and intense pain relief, and euphoria.
PHYSICAL EFFECTS: Brain damage causing Parkinson disease-like symptoms with difficulty in speaking, impaired ability to walk and muscle spasms. Severe respiratory depression, occasionally spasms of the muscles of the chest wall causing death. WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS: Not listed but would expect to be similar to a heroin withdrawal.
OVERDOSE SYMPTOMS: Death due to depression of the respiratory center in the brain.
Care you check teh website...
http://www.adhl.org/chinawht.html
Unfortunately I am right. It was known to me long ago that it was a synthetic heroin. Fetanyl is CHINA WHITE. Feel free to check on numerous pages you can pull up on google.
Peace, Love, and Empathy,
Kaos
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Kaos
Stranger
Reged: 09/18/04
Posts: 6
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Most people don't make the distinction at the street level but any heroin user can tell the difference. One is a very "pharmaceutical high" and the other types are a more natural. You can even taste the difference in your mouth. One is just a synthetic(the fetanyl based china white) and the other types are either "black" or "brown" tar heroin or the more usual brownish type of small rocks or powder. There are many different things used to cut these drugs on the street level. Anyways as to the effect of dilaudid. Most heroin users do prefer the IV use of dilaudid because it gives one of the most intense rushes of all the painkillers although fetanyl is very close. The only problem is that though it has a great rush when injected the overall high afterwards doesn't compare to the street drug heroin. Mind you this is for informative purposes only. I do not ever recommend ANYONE using heroin or any other illegal OR legal drug unless they need it. Just thought I would give my 13 year of experience and opinion to the matter. As far as prescription painkillers/analgesics go Dilaudid is one of the strongest but fentanyl is also. But alot of doctors will switch people around when you gain a tolerance or you aren't receiving the same benefits in pain management as before.
Peace, Love, and Empathy,
Kaos
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 230
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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QUOTE:
PHYSICAL EFFECTS: Brain damage causing Parkinson disease-like symptoms with difficulty in speaking, impaired ability to walk and muscle spasms. Severe respiratory depression, occasionally spasms of the muscles of the chest wall causing death. ENDQUOTE
THIS IS NOT THE PHYSICAL EFFECTS OF FENATYL; FENATYL, as approved by the FDA is totally safe.
This )bad rap) is an effect of ONE batch of illicit FENATYL cooked up in San Jose CA - some years ago. The reaction went wrong and the product was NOT FENATYL. but another atropine-based drug that CAUSED permanant neuro damage.
Fenatyl, under duragesic or as the injectable is totally safe when sourced legitimately. It provides pain relef but few of the side effects(euphoria - sedation) associated with Opiates. It is classified as a thebain-derived non-opiate painkiller. The fenatyl analogs(i.e illicit us mfged 'china white') can be atropine sourced but the chemestry gets complex. Stay off the street and use legit sources for medically necessary painkillers.
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