tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
There is no best. a chemical compound is a chemical compound and its a black and white thing. either its hydrocodone or its not, there no inbetween with a single molecue..... this is not like shampoos which are a mixture of dozens of chemicals and different chemicals and the shampoo with the best mixture and chems is the brand thats best...no we are talking about a single chemical compound and theres no difference between generic hydrocodone and vicodin brand hydrocodone. nothing. if you think there is its all in your mind.
Its very very strange how powerful the placebo effect is in scientific studies..if every test subject was like me than placebo would always get 0%. people are so like unaware of themselves that placebos often get like 25% and stuff lol, so its no surprise that people also say "oh this brand of hydrocodone works a little bit better than the other brand". no lol thats impossible there is no quality to a molecue, it either is that molecue, or its mis synthesized and its something different, and that happens with some street drugs once in a while but never a generic pharma factory.
so get it strait lol theres no difference thats all a myth. just like distilled water is always H20, hydrocodone is always C18 H21 NO3, there is no carbon or hydrogen atom in it thats "less quality" lol
|
kittie74
Board Addict
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 310
Loc: Hollywood
|
|
tone
i know what you're saying and in theory, yes that should be true. but my experience after having tried 7.5/750: brand Vicodin ES, Watson and Mallies, I've always felt like the Watsons worked the best. Can't tell you why. I've even paid more for the name brand to see if there was a difference and honestly, I didn't like them as much. It didn't make any sense to me. Some people say it's because of the amount of APAP. I bet if someone gave me any one of the ones I mentioned, and I didn't know what they were, I would still feel the difference. I'd compare it to coca-cola. A can of generic coke from the 99 cents store or RC Cola is WAY different from a can of real Coke. Just my 2 cents.
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
hmm that is strange kittie, by any chance is watson the FIRST brand you took when you first took hydro?
people probably also say one brand of diphenhydramine is better than the other when the capsules come from the same factory and are under different private lables
|
night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
|
|
I agree, BUT...
I have taken methadone in all its current formulations (liquid 10mgs/ml, 5mgs/5mls, tablets 5 and 10mgs, and diskettes in varying strengths.)
There is DEFINITELY a difference in the effectiveness for me between the different varieties--even though they all contain the same active ingredient. Diskettes do not seem to last as long as the liquid or pills. The pills seem to work better than the liquid. The 10mgs/ml liquid works better than the 5mgs/5mls liquid (which also contains alcohol...the concentrated solution does not.)
The difference in the different brands of any drug has to do with the AMOUNT OF THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT. What a drug SAYS it has, i.e. 5mgs of hydrocodone, may actually only have 4.5mgs, etc. There is a varying degree of actual ingredient in a tablet rated as a particular strength. This may account for the different reactions between brands claiming to be the same strength.
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
|
kittie74
Board Addict
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 310
Loc: Hollywood
|
|
Quote:
hmm that is strange kittie, by any chance is watson the FIRST brand you took when you first took hydro?
no - Mallies were my first. When I switched pharmacies I got the Watsons because that was their generic.
I also take Imitrex for migraines. It doesn't always work. The doctor recently gave me Maxalt and it worked great - a big difference from the Imitrex. The doctor said these drugs have the same basic ingredient, but his patients respond differently to different brands. I wonder if we build up a tolerance not only to strength, but brand? I've always been curious about that.
Edited by kittie74 (02/21/04 08:02 PM)
|
Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1217
Loc: Southwest U.S.
|
|
Only certain specific personality types believe that they are immune to the placebo effect.
Trampy
--------------------
Your mileage may vary ...
|
cotybear
Journeyman
Reged: 01/30/04
Posts: 52
Loc: south east
|
|
it may just be something as simple as the other additives such as the dyes. I personally don't feel the mallie 10's or the watson 10's effect my pain levels anymore but for what ever reason the mallies make me nausea's by the end of the day and i don't feel as entergetic with the mallies. And the first one's i ever took was the brand but much rather perfer the green watson's over any of them. I can't comment on any of the 7.5's it has been so long since i have used 7.5's can't say but i'm sure some where along the way they all have some different additive other that the main ingredients of hydro and apap.
Coty
|
BFThornberry
Journeyman
Reged: 01/23/04
Posts: 86
|
|
Although - Generics only have to be something like 75% of the brand (as in actual Vicadin or Percocet) name...I had a doctor that always insisted on brand because he said that it really only had to be close to say 10mg if it was a 10mg pill if it was generic...Maybe some generic brands are closer than others?
I persoanlly don't know though...
|
Whatsnew
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/27/03
Posts: 205
Loc: S.E. USA
|
|
That's similar to my belief that the tolerances allowed for brand names and generics are probably controlled a little differently by the different manufacturers. I have deffinitely noticed a difference in effectiveness in several different kinds of meds.
D
|
Dante6677
Member
Reged: 08/14/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Fl. Panhandle
|
|
I recently recieved a FRESH bottle of Qualitest! I was exited from what I had heard they were great! They were even a yellower color and hard to break in half, you know packed real tight! I was expecting them to be great but they SUCKED! I felt wierd and nauseated all day and got a headache. Hmm placebo? lol, I think not.
|
qwrt
Journeyman
Reged: 12/09/03
Posts: 60
Loc: USA
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I also take Imitrex for migraines. It doesn't always work. The doctor recently gave me Maxalt and it worked great - a big difference from the Imitrex. The doctor said these drugs have the same basic ingredient, but his patients respond differently to different brands.
Maxalt and Imitrex do NOT have the same ingredient...the ingredients are from the same family though (both are triptans...)
Maxalt = Rizatriptan Benzoate
Imitrex - Sumitriptan Succinate
Different chemicals.
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
did you know that people say they notice a difference between watson hydrocodones, and Norco, which is also manufactured by watson? ahh hahahaha
what are you talking about when you say: [/Quote]"tolerances allowed for brand names and generics are probably controlled a little differently by the different manufacturers"
its all the same. all hydrocodone 5/500s have 5 mg of hydrocodone and 500 mg APAP. there is no "different hydrocodone" if it was different, then it wouldnt be the hydrocodone molecue
|
Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 260
Loc: USA
|
|
I actually was one of the people that said Watson's and Norco's felt different.. And I'll still say that to this day. First off, this is just a friendly debate, but do you by chance have the link to any information that says Watson's and Norco's are made by the same company? Next, do you have access to the MSDS of each (watson/ norco) and/ or a specific factual document that shows their exact ingredients? I just want to know if this is really in my head or in fact it's a real feeling.. I've really noticed a tired feeling when taking real Norco's as apposed to Watson's. Also, I've tried to look at Able's with a good light, but every single time I tried them, they gave me a horrible headache.. I will agree that hydrocodone products do contain the same thing and apap can effect the pain control of each med, but I still can't agree that this is all a placebo.. Anyway, any info would be great!. =)
Tred
--------------------
Entertainment Specialist!
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
Watsons generic and Norco are both made by watson pharmacuticals, all you had to do is go to watson's site and type norco. in the results youll get all there hydrocodone products, norco + generic http://www.watsonpharm.com/
|
Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 260
Loc: USA
|
|
True.. I went to the site and recorded all ingredients in both generic and real Norco's.. Both seem to have the same MSDS, so I'm at a loss as to why they affect me differently.. Also on a side note... Why does the same company put out a generic form of their original medication?? Wouldn't this be done ususally by another company, trying to compete with prices,ect? Any idea's on why they would do such a thing? Do they pawn off the genric's like they aren't as good, but then make a patient pay top dollar for the product with a nice logo??
Hmmmmmm.....
--------------------
Entertainment Specialist!
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
because, they might as well make money on brand name and generic, why let people go buy generic from another company when they can have both brand name customers and generic costumers. people sure are weird arent they?
|
night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
|
|
This reminds me of another marketing ploy used by manufacturers. Excedrin contains caffeine, acetaminophen and aspirin. Excedrin MIGRAINE (which went through the whole FDA approval process by itself) has exactly the same ingredients in exactly the same amounts. The only difference is the packaging contains specific information for use for headaches. But the cost is substantially more (about $2-3 per bottle more) than regular Excedrin. And even though I KNOW this is the case, I am still more likely to buy the Migraine formula--probably a psychological thing!
--------------------
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
|
dhc_60
Member
Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 175
Loc: mo.
|
|
i've been considering trying norco to lower my APAP amount. is norco the name brand or is the generic name watson like the generic for lortab. i guess what im asking is are norco and lotab made by same co. or just the generics for these 2 made by same co. help im to confused to even make sense to my self.
|
anew
Stranger
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 15
Loc: midwest
|
|
dhc - I'm pretty sure Norco & Lortab are brand names for hydrocodone/APAP. They all come in different stregnths. When I receive my meds the bottle says "hydrocodone/APAP 7.5mg/500mg generic for Lortab". I think the manufacturer is Watson. Clear as mud???? lol
|
lttlbit
Member
Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 194
|
|
I just got some vicodin es from rxhotdeals, and i swear they are not working, i took one a couple hours ago and it was nothing like the ones I got from the pharmacy, and even the bottle was real dusty with white residue from the pills, what does this mean? they say watson on the pill, in fact they saw watson 387, but they do not seem to work, could they be counterfeit watsons, hydros ? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but i would not put it past these op's to create a pill that looks like a hydro and sell it as a hydro. Any advance would be greatly appreciated. THanks
|
amaz
Member
Reged: 11/18/03
Posts: 123
|
|
Not sure if this will help - but I do know that when initially I got lortab, but then like you, to lowere APAP, swicthed to norco on my last refill, BOTH were made by Watson (ie I think Watson makes the generic of both of these) So, I think Norco is perhaps the "brand" name as my medicine, 10/325 is usually made by Watson, but then one refill I got was made by Able, has been referred to a "generic Norco" before- does that make sense?
|
joanne2
Journeyman
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 71
|
|
lttlbit, go to rxlist.com that should tell you something.
|
wylefriend
Journeyman
Reged: 01/16/04
Posts: 77
Loc: deep south
|
|
i got the same thing from rxhotdeals and i thought they where as good as the ones i got from the dentist a few weekd ago. they looked fine to me
|
Spectre13
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 298
Loc: ThunderHeadTippyTops
|
|
I don't see where anyone has insisted upon a difference in molecule quality per se. More often the difference is with regard to the rate of onset for said molecules as fillers and binders allow. The quicker dissolving tabs (like Watsons) produce a "ton of bricks" type onset, whereas the much slower dissolving Mallinckrodt's "wear on" over many more minutes. Suffice it to say that an hour after ingestion there should theoretically be no difference in effect, but initial "presentation" of the effect is a powerful factor with regard to remaining perception of the effect throughout it's duration.
--------------------
When you think it's beyond your comprehension, it probably just precedes it.
|
Daeshay76
Board Addict
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 376
|
|
i have always recieved hydrocodone 10/325 by Qualitest and never had a problem with them just yesterday i recieved my online order and got the watson 10/325 generic norco i guess? but since i started taking them i have broke out in a rash on the palm of my hands and on my face. so i am thinking one of the ingredients in the watson brand i am allergic to so in my opinion not all generics are the same.
|
stevesmith
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 431
Loc: Southern
|
|
EXACTLY! just like my DR. told me. there's different binders or whatever. Different companies can use cheaper binding or whatever if they want. Also NAME BRANDS by law can be 20% more potent than GENERICS. either way it's gonna make a difference. someone once said on a thread "why would a company waste time suing a weaker binder or 20% less drug in the pills? that's only gotta save them liek a penny per pill if that" yeah but they make gazillions of these pills. those 20%'s add up. those pennies add up. the lower cost of buying and using cheaper binders adds up. These big drug companies exist for 1 reason: TO MAKE MONEY.
dont wanan start controversy or anything but it is simple economics. if by law they can cut corners and use less quality binders and 20% less actualy drug they're gonan do it.
JMO
--------------------
PPL don't argue over ideas or possible solutions, but instead argue to assert their egos and release frustration. Once U realize this, U will neither argue nor take arguments seriously
Edited by stevesmith (10/28/04 09:32 AM)
|
dolock
Newbie
Reged: 02/19/02
Posts: 37
|
|
I wish I was smart as as you Tone, HA HA HA!
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
Quote 
