Horace
Journeyman
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Earth
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Sorry if this is slightly OT, but concerning hyrdocodone:
I was on this board about a year ago due to injuries to my back and legs that hurt like hell. I thought it was all in my mind, but the three docs I went to (two of them specialists) said no.
I am going to see my neurologist tomorrow. I am concerning that he might not give me hyrdocodone, even though I received it last time, because of the drug-scares in the MD community.
Anyway, I want to be prepared to find something that will work well if I have to go to an IOP. How is this temgesic buprenorphine (I think same as Stadol?) or Darvocet compared to Hyrdo? What do you think the strongest thing I could get from a IOP (besides something crazy like oxycontin -- wch I don't want to get), so I could have an emergency supply for these flare-ups that are starting to make my life hell?
Thanks!
H
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MetsFan
Member
Reged: 09/21/03
Posts: 148
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Hey,
Not an expert, but from what I hear there are IOPs out there with various Codeine products. Also, DHC (a form a codeine, I think). Beware, I hear the stuff can be much more habit forming than hydro. Also, not exactly legal. I don't recomend.
Mets
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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DHC (Di-Hydro-Codeine) is a legal, scheduled, FDA approved drug in the US. It was developed , created and approved long ago, but was never as popular as HYDRO.
I post this because it MAY be illegal to import non-sheduled, non-FDA approved drugs under teh FDA humanitarian guidelines - But DHC does not fit this category. IT is about 1/7 potiency of morphine; which puts it between codeine (1/15), Hydro(1/8) and oxy (1/6).
but suince all people are different; your mileage may vary(i.e codeine, hydro, DHC and OXY have differnt effects in different prople). I get the itchies from codeine, which doesn't show up till about 80mg/daily of hydro and not at all with oxy.
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swtangel
Member
Reged: 07/09/04
Posts: 137
Loc: Delaware
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Quote:
How is this temgesic buprenorphine (I think same as Stadol?)
Thanks!
H
Just to let you know that Stadol (Butorphanol tartrate) is a nasal spray that is used to treat migraines and I don't think you can get it from any IOP.
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Horace
Journeyman
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Earth
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Sorry got those two confused. Thanks for correction.
(Another reason to first check here (if not from an M.D. or RPh) before self-prescribing).
However, I do find that the butorphanal nasal spray worked more effectively in my pain relief than vicodin.
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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Are you sure about those numbers? My only point of contention is that by those numbers DHC is just a bit stronger than hydrocodone and just a bit weaker than oxycodone? That just doesn't seem right IME. I've had plenty of experience with all 3 of those, and from my experience and just about anyone i've known who has had the 3, DHC is just a little better than codeine and nowhere near the potency of the other 2. I guess it could be body-chemistry, but I know that I need at ieast 800 mg of DHC to cover the pain that 40mg of hydro of oxy will fix. 800mg, wow, from when you could still find the 120mg DHC online easy and cheap. I've had to resort to more like 1500mg of DHC in the past when the pain was unbearable, while bumping up the hydro or oxy to about 60-70 mg would have easily fixed the problem. Maybe it's too early and i'm just reading your math wrong, but I would be very afraid if I were switching from, say 50 mg of hydro to 40 or 50 mg of DHC. I know i'd be in a world of hurt & w/d from that switch. YMMV of course..
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 121
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ahem, ah, the codeine in DHC can stove a person up to get the pain relieving amounts that I have needed.
Get out the senokot.
sorry a bit OT
trix
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The truth shall set you free!
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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tramadol is better than all of them, and ironically, the one that is not a controlled substance.
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 204
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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10 mg of hydro.
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 204
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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DHC is not as potent or addicting as Hydro's.
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woolius
Member
Reged: 02/08/02
Posts: 159
Loc: US
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I think tramadol is the much weaker than codeine or hydro. It's only good for mild-moderate pain. After two car accidents and a really screwed up back, I've tried various painkillers and while tamadol might be the easiest to get from IOP's, it's not the best if you're in a lot of pain.
If you take tramadol on any sort of regular basis and start taking codeine or hydro, give your body a little break (at least 8-12 hours) to clear out some of the tramadol as it will counteract any opiates to a certain degree. (Talks about it in the PDR).
One more note. Tramadol is not a drug you want to get addicted to. Withdrawals are more severe and last longer than those associated with opiates.
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 458
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Quote:
One more note. Tramadol is not a drug you want to get addicted to. Withdrawals are more severe and last longer than those associated with opiates.
In other words...another worthless and dangerous non-opiate "pain killer".
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Better living through the pharmaceutical sciences.
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blissmiss
Member
Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Connecticut, via Illinois, Mis...
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I agree. I did not get pain relief, nor any benefit whatsoever. It was not worth the pain it took to drive to the RX and pick it up. But all meds work differently for all folks.
I would never *ever* go through withdrawls, from such an underperforming "pain" med. EVER. Just me.
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Do you not see how necessary a world of pains and troubles is to school an intelligence and make it a soul?
John Keats 1795-1821, British Poet
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
In other words...another worthless and dangerous non-opiate "pain killer".
kills a lot more pain than any other opioid i ever took. but the other poster is right, the withdrawal can be very severe and last longer than the withdrawl of all the others (except methadone perhapes)
tramadol may also cause undesirable side effects with a certain number of people because its an opioid with a hard punch to it. not only does it inhibit reuptake but, it even causes some modest amount of serotonin release as if it were very milder version MDMA (Ecstacy) in addition to it being a Mu Opioid Agonist. some people have stated that they felt like they were "tripping" on it and it was really unplesant for them
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
worthless and dangerous non-opiate "pain killer".
below are quotes from tramadol's offical monograph
Quote:
at least two complementary mechanisms appear applicable; binding to µ-opioid receptors and inhibition of reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin. Ultram opioid activity derives from low affinity binding of the parent compound to µ-opioid receptors and higher affinity binding of the M1 metabolite. In animal models, M1 is up to 6 times more potent than tramadol in producing analgesia and 200 times more potent in µ-opioid binding.
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Quote:
Although tramadol can produce drug dependence of the µ-opioid type (like codeine or dextropropoxyphene) and potentially may be abused, there has been little evidence of abuse in foreign clinical experience. In clinical trials, tramadol produced effects similar to an opioid, and at supratherapeutic doses was recognized as an opioid in subjective/behavioral studies. Tolerance development has been reported to be relatively mild and withdrawal when present, is not considered to be as severe as that produced by other opioids. Part of tramadol's activity and some extension of the duration of µ-opioid activity. Delayed µ-opioid activity is believed to reduce a drug's abuse liability.
so, although you can say its a non-opiate chemically because it doesnt have the morphine-like structure, you couldnt say its a non-opioid in terms of its mechanism of action. you can also say that methadone and fentanyl are non-opiates chemical because they are nothing like the morphine structure as well.
they said "Delayed µ-opioid activity is believed to reduce a drug's abuse liability" -- that is so true because i notice its opioid feel is so delayed and drawn out, almost like its time released without being in a special time release pill. one cannot take tramadol and get any rush from it, the onset is so gradual and the effects are so drawn out...but thats the way i like it, it kills mental and physical pain longer and smoother
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Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 458
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Tone...the opiod delivery in tramadol is so delayed, I've never felt it! 
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Better living through the pharmaceutical sciences.
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GloryBug
Stranger
Reged: 08/30/04
Posts: 7
Loc: USA
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Hmmm... I've had Ultram, Vioxx, Tramadol, every NSAID you can think of, codeine, vicodin and the like. I don't think I've ever had an oxy, so I can't compare those. Two things come to mind:
Pot is actually very good for pain. In high school and beyond, it really helped break through dibilitating cramps. I haven't smoked pot since then, though. I can see why people want it legalized for pain, but as I have an ex-pothead husband who would laze around for hours if it was legal, I can see why some people would be against it.
After my several reconstructive surgeries I can say Stadol was really nice. Or at least I think it was- I don't remember! But the best thing I ever had was one of those fentanyl lollipops. It seems a lot of the other meds work for pain because they scramble your brain, which I hate. You still hurt, but your head just isn't understanding it. When I sucked on that lollipop, it was heaven. No high...clear, straight head... and NO pain. In fact I almost didn't notice it because most pain meds fuzz you up. It's more that all of the sudden I noticed I didn't hurt, and I had this great sense of peace and well-being, but I didn't feel drowsy, tired or high. It was almost like I'd just never had pain, maybe how normal people feel. It was wonderful, especially since you could just suck on it a bit, and when the pain tried to creep back in, you just had another lick. Like the owl in the tootsie-pop commercial.
Afterwards I heard it's a 'bad' drug- very addictive. But I've also read very bad stories of people trying to take it for 'fun', and how icky it was... not a good 'high', barfing all the time, etc. Mostly good things have been written by severe pain cases like cancer, et al. I don't know what to think. Maybe my pain is similar to cancer? I don't know. It had no drawbacks that I could see, other than that I could see why people would want to be addicted to not being in pain. But then I read lots of bad stuff about Vioxx, Celebrex, Ultram.... and I was prescribed all of them. None of them did anything other than make me seasick and sweaty..barfy, and it was no problem not getting addicted to that.
As far as right now, I don't know. The meds I take now take the edge off, but they in no way get rid of the pain. Sorry I babbled so long...... aieeee
c
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I never met a vegetable I didn't like.
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