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jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 47
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Okay, here's my last question for a while (I promise - I'm an information sponge.) Since in most all cases, people switch to Valium to ease withdrawl from Xanax, Ativan, or Klonopin, why aren't people just using Valium in the first place? I know, I know, different drugs have different effect in different people. But I'm seeing a pattern in the big picture here and basically calling BS on some of the explanations I'm hearing why Xanax is be for he/she.
When most people take drugs to get relief from some type of symptoms/problems, they want to feel like the drug is really working. Us whimpy humans in the modern pop-a-pill age want fast, complete relief, otherwise why bother with the pills. This is especially pronounced in a panic-attack type situation for some than General Anxiety Disorder.
When comparing all the Benzodiazepines in all the reading I've done over the past month, the by far favorite is Xanax. Why? Most people say something like "this drug works the best for my and my situation" I think the reason is much more general than that. Of the popular Benzos, it's the fastest acting and it has the most potent peak with very strong noticeable effects. So by my contention of human nature in general, of course it is going to be the most frequently chosen Benzo on average.
Yet by virtue of its pharmacology, it ends up being the worst to withdrawl from after prolonged use. So a switch to Valium is made. Valium is also fast acting, and provides with most people, complete relief of anxiety and panic (maybe not quite to the effect of Xanax on the panic side with a slightly slower onset - but close)
So isn't there a strong possibility that a lot of people taking Xanax should be taking Valium in the first place?
It's like a choice between old-school drug that is sort of 'out of fashion' that provides fast onset and a more mellow offset, versus 'new school' drug (Xanax) that packs a punch with a more pronounced effect where multiple doses per day are necessary to keep it going.
I almost liken it to the difference between a Heroin user shooting up several times a day versus a Morphine user popping a pill a couple times a day. I think it is in human nature to always go for the drug with the more pronounced effect thinking it has got to be better. When in reality, I think a lot of people who were prescribed Xanax, could have been prescribed Valium instead, right off the bat.
Just a theory. But whenever I overhear the stressed out people in the rich suburban neighborhoods talking about how they are handling their anxiety/stress, everyone is recommended Xanax to everyone else.
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zippy66
Enthusiast
Reged: 09/17/04
Posts: 213
Loc: The Spine
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Jaz,
There's a lot of info out there on the net. The short answer is Valium has a halflife that can be up to 100 hours (including its breakdown metabolites) THis doesn't mean it leaves your body in 100 hours it means that half is left after 100 hours. Xanax is more like 9 hours or shorter. It all goes back to why you are taking them. For short term requirements, xanax doesn't leave you groggy and with a hangover like valium does the next day. And the whole issue of drug testing may impact your choice as well but thats another story. To be straight with you, Valium actually has a faster onset of action than xanax and may be better for panic attacks (if youhave no tolerance or buildup) but those halflives you have to consider.
nuff sed
Zip66
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hooba_gal
Stranger
Reged: 06/26/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Southern US
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ok...just thought i would put my two cents out there...don't spend it all in one place. having been on both, first the doctor gave me a low dosage of xanax for my anxiety/panic attacks but i couldn't stand the side effects. no matter where i was, if i had an attack & took a xanax, i would have to lay my head down for like 20 minutes because i got so drowsy. i really didn't like it. my anxiety subsided but i was dealing with the effects for the rest of the day and if i had an attack at work and had to take a xanax, it doesn't go over so well with the boss that i have to lay my head down. especially when most people don't understand anxiety/panic disorders like my ex-boyfriend. i hated it when he would tell me it was all in my head and i needed to calm down. i was ready to knee him and tell him it's all in your b*lls, calm down, it will go away! anyway, back to the point at hand. i was having a discussion with a co-worker who suffers from the same thing and told me about how she had the same side effects from xanax and that she takes valium now. i asked my doctor about it and he was very hesitant about prescibing the valium for me because he said it is highly addictive. i've taken valium, i like it much better because for me the side effects are much less and that's my story. honestly, i still don't understand why they say that xanax and valium are so addictive. i only take it when i have an attack and i know that it will help me. luckily, i don't have attacks very often.
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salstar
Journeyman
Reged: 03/10/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Cool Britannia
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I think it's just a case of 'one persons poison is another's paradise'. For some, Xanax is the miracle cure, the only thing that will help to get them through their anxiety/insomnia/panic attacks. For others, it's Valium or any of the other varieties of Benzo's that are out there. Everybody reacts differently to drugs, so it really depends on the individual.
I think Valium is prescribed as a means to help those who are addicted to Xanax because it's less potent and could help make the withdrawal more bearable. By still supplying the body with a softer tranquilizer, you are eliminating the majority of withdrawal symptoms but are helping combat the addiction by effectively lowering/switching the dose. I think the idea is to eventually taper off the Valium, not to use it as a substitute. If you become addicted to Xanax, I think that Valium is seen as the lesser of two necessary evils.
I personally have taken both and although I don't like benzo's, I've used Valium occasionally as an anxiety/stress suppressant and Xanax as a sleeping pill. I wouldn't say I became addicted but when I decided to stop taking Xanax after two years, I decided to ease the pressure of my returning & relentless insomnia by using Valium. It helped and after a week of tapering I stopped altogether with no side effects. Valium would have been useless to me before as it wouldn't have been strong enough to knock me out so therefore it would have been pointless taking it instead of Xanax... it's only purpose for me was to be used as an aid in an uncomfortable transition.
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Sally
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jazee
Newbie
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 47
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I think the doctor's contention that Valium is highly addictive is very generalistic as it obviously depends on the usage pattern, but more to the point, I would content it is no more addictive than Xanax given the same usage patterns.
Although the half-life is much longer, I spoke to a doctor and they said that Valium leaves the brain rather rapidly, so the clinical effects that you feel from Valium subside at maybe a more gradual rate than Xanax, but you will notice the dosing instructions for Diazepam are two or three times a day in most literature.
I can attest. I took 3 doses of Valium, 10mg, one day, the next morning I had no noticeable residual effects. I think you would have to take it for several days straight for it to build up.
As already one poster attested to that had panic/anxiety. The valium worked better than Xanax because it's not such a roller coaster ride. So I go back to my theory that I think Xanax's popularity is to a large degree because it is the pill-du-jour for Benzodiazepines and I would bet money that a good portion of people out there taking it (not everyone of course), would be better off taking Valium instead.
As everyone has noted before, you have to go on Valium to get off Xanax anyway.
I would be interested in hearing from someone who started on Valium, and then switched to Xanax with much better results. So far we have one case for the opposite.
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 281
Loc: East
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I had the opposite. I switched to xanax since I found it cheaper at one place, and going off of it is rough. I am going to use the valium instead, and take note of the one poster that said they used valium to get off xanax and then taper the valium down.
Xanax I think is the bigger of the 2 evils. Didn't realize it but its hard to just stop taking it all together with no taper. Thats why I am tapering with Valium, once that is low enough I will be done with valium too. (I hope!)
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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IMO, after a loooong time on and off and on and off and on and off xanax, valium, and many others, I have to say that benzos are the devil. Not literally, but from my personal experience, and watching those around me who also take them, benzos have a way of seeming so completely innocent and "not a problem" until you run out, or try to quit and realize how AWFUL it is when your brain starts screaming for that medicine. I don't know which was worse for me, Xanax w/d or Ativan w/d. I suffered thru both before the internet and places like db.com where I learned to taper, etc. But even with tapering, it still is hard as you-know-what to stop them completely without anguish of some sort. I say they're the devil because they seem so innocent, you take your dose and you feel nothing special, just normal. Often though, especially with the benzos that hit the memory pretty hard (ativan KILLED my memory while I was on it) so you end up doing some stupid things, not even realizing how obvious you are to everyone else while the benzos keep you thinking that you're smooth as ice. Or, as it was with me with Ativan (and i've seen it happen to many others on different benzos), you take your dose, then 30 minutes later you find yourself sitting there wondering, "did I take my med or did I just mean to but forgot? I think I forgot. I'll take it now." So now you have a double-dose. Then a couple hours later basically the same happens.. did I take my morning meds? Shoot, I forgot. I'd better do that or i'll regret it... Next thing you know you're out of meds, have a built up tolerance that you never expected, and you're facing either a cold/turkey or a very expensive talk with an OP or a local doc, if you're lucky enough to have insurance & the $ for the visit. And can get a visit! I know folks who have gone to the emergency room in major xanax w/d, by that I mean 10-15mg daily then cold turkey, and the ER sending them home with 4 (!) 1mg xanax to solve the problem. Of course, someone who is used to 10 mg a day can't very well tolerate a drop from that to 4 little 1 mg pills.. but i've seen it happen more than a few times. It's truly frightening how uneducated so many "professionals" are when it comes to dealing with folks who have a benzo problem. Of course the drugs seem like a miracle when you first get prescribed them, but after a year or more all the joy and much of the effectiveness seems to fade and you're stuck with a dangerous tolerance to have to get rid of, and if you've not tried, believe me when i say that tapering from benzos is HARD, even if you are diligent and write your every single dose taken as a record to verify that you're gradually tapering. It's SO tempting to just take one more because you know your brain will calm down, your nerves will stop jangling, your body will stop shaking, your mind will stop running out of control, your adrenaline will calm down, etc etc etc. Valium taper worked for me in the past, but even then the 2 weeks after quitting my last dose (IIRC I was down to 2.5mg valium daily), those 2 weeks were up there in the top tier of 'worst times of my entire life'. 2 whole weeks which I can only describe as a bad acid trip that just won't go away, nay, it just gets worse for the first 6 or 7 days IME. After that it just hangs around for another week driving you (well, me anyway) nuts. And then when the worst is over, it's not uncommon for protracted w/d symptoms to hang around for months and months, or possibly worse, disappear and then reappear after a couple weeks, really confusing you because you thought it was finally over. "Good Luck* to anyone undertaking the quitting process. It can be done, i've done it many times. Right now though.... I certainly have a love/hate relationship with my meds...
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 281
Loc: East
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Well you hit the nail right on the head. Thats exactly how it is! It sucks! I do think that I made a mistake though of going onto xanax for a while and not just stick to valium, xanax just seems so much harder to come off.
I plan on it not being a fun time when I finally am down to a small dose, hopefully, if I taper ok and can keep my brain sane I will not have super bad WD's but I agree, they sure are the devil..
But, I have no choice but to try it since I have a full bottle now, might as well instead of waiting untill the near end. At least I have a few months hopefully to go slowly down to 2.5mgs a day and then Poof! DONE!
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KarmaKelly
Member
Reged: 04/20/02
Posts: 126
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Valium did not control my panic symptoms the way Xanax does. I agree with everyone about it being h*ll going off them, but it is important to have your doctor gradually taper you off. When I tapered off slowly enough, it was okay.
I also have a question regarding Xanax. My cousin's doctor just prescribed it for her. She called three different pharmacies and they all use different generics: one uses PurePac, one uses Geneva, and the other Mylan. I take the name brand so am unfamiliar with which generic is better. Does anyone know out of those three which is better? They are all about the same price with her insurance.
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