d989
Newbie

Reged: 12/19/01
Posts: 30
Loc: Connecticut USA
|
|
Hi,
I was surfing the net and found a page discussing new pain drugs waiting to be approved by the fda and other agencies. Information about them is below. Notice that Perdues new extended release hydromorphone is in the pipeline!!
MorphiDex-Endo Pharmaceuticals-Morphine and DXM (the chemical in some cough syrups) combination which in theory has a syngeristic effect.
OxyTrek-Pain Therapeutics-Oxycodone and naltrexone combination. They say that a ultra low dose of naltrexone will prevent tolerance from occuring.
Palladone XL-Purdue Pharmaceuticals-It will be a miracle if this one gets approved. Basically extended release dilaudid.
RemOxy-Durect-Oxycodone in an abuse resistant gel cap which makes it almost impossible to snort or shoot. They also said if you crush it up, it will still retain its time release properties. Who knows, maybe if they put this one out more doctors will feel more comfortable rxing this pain drug.
Dualadone ASA - Alpharma - Oxycodone/Hydrocodone/Asprin combination 2.5/2.5/300
|
jsumner
Newbie
Reged: 08/17/04
Posts: 37
|
|
Don't know about you but I would volunteer to participate in the trials of the Palladone XL. Great pain killer. Just doesn't last at all.
|
kimbell1
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 274
Loc: Route 666, Painville, Texas 6...
|
|
That is great except for one thing-these drugs will be the most expensive of their type for years.
I am sure that my doctor would want me on something like one of these new drugs to CYA. I already am on Avinza which is the only pain killer designed for long term use that i know of.
It is speical time release morphine over 24 hours and is an expensive drug.
Works like a hydro 5 but for 20-24 hours. Znot enough by itself at the 60 mgs. that I am taking.
|
d989
Newbie

Reged: 12/19/01
Posts: 30
Loc: Connecticut USA
|
|
Hey,
Avinza is not the only pain killer for long term usage. Methadone, morphine and oxycontin are examples of three drugs that a person in chronic pain can be on for the rest of their lives. My pain doc has had me on many meds and I have actually asked this question because I was worried about the long term effects on my body.
He also said methadone was his favorite, because after you get used to it, it produces little/no euporia, is very cheap, targets an additional pain receptor besides the usual ones, and is very easy on your liver (it is not converted in your liver like many other drugs.)
One drug that cannot be used long term is Demerol. This is because the byproducts of the drug build up in your system and become poison like.
Basically any drug with asprin or apap in it is a bad long term drug. Nobody should ever have to take asa/apap daily for long term pain control. It will hurt your liver, even on extended doses of under 4 grams per day. I know some people on this board can only get narcotic/apap preperations from the OPs, because they have no other choice. However, they should really weigh other options (pain clinic and even a methadone clinic if you cannot find a kind doc.)
Also, Darvon is a bad long term drug because the theraputic window is very small. In other words, if you take just a little more (relatively speaking) than the prescribed dose you can overdose. Also, overall it is a very weak painkiller. Someone would be better off with codeine.
-d
|
ISaidDuh
Stranger
Reged: 10/28/02
Posts: 11
|
|
That is great news BUT..........................
Towards the first of this year, this same type article
came out that goverment and drug manufactures are working
on new formulations that would take the "Europhia, Etc"
away most pain meds in a hope to curtail improper drug user.
Yes, there are people who use pain meds when they don't have any geniune pain problem for fun but for the most part real chronic pain patients are now being punished by the minorty of people who pulls a bogus need.
|
lespierce
Journeyman
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 53
|
|
Do you have the link to the page you are referring to by chance?
Also, I am on Duragesic - I think this is another drug that has been approved for long term pain control. If not, then I need to talk to my Doc 
Best wishes to all...
|
trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 121
|
|
I have read about oxy-trex, that one is phase III of its clinical trials(why don't ppl here understand that ALL drugs have to go through trials to make it to us?)
I hope that they find one that works well for us.
I have had great relief with oxycontin, and no tolerance issues so far. No increase in mg's, but increase in dosing.
I could not ramp up the duragesic, and not effective for me.
Its a fine line, and I look forward to the "new" drugs, and knowledge of them, as we may be prescribed them at some time or another.
Thanks for the info.
trix
http://www.tvmvc.com/webEdition/we_cmd.php?we_cmd%5B0%5D=show&we_cmd%5B1%5D=1944&we_cmd%5B4%5D=78
oh and here is the oxytrex info link
--------------------
The truth shall set you free!
|
Opie_Yates
Old Hand
Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 458
|
|
It's amazing how I hear more and more about Duragesic being ineffective.
--------------------
Better living through the pharmaceutical sciences.
|
JeanneLynn
Member
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 104
Loc: The Bible Belt
|
|
I think it would be wonderful if they could take the "euphoria" out of pain pills. Then they wouldn't be abused as much and Doctors would be more sympathetic to people with legitimate pain. To be honest, I don't believe that I have ever experienced "euphoria" when taking pain meds, other than the happiness that the pain went away. But I take a very low dose of meds.
|
trixxie
Member
Reged: 05/23/03
Posts: 121
|
|
I would be interested to find out the criteria for the FDA in clinical trials. I have searched for info. Who know what is going to be in the doctors toolkit next time?
I wouldn't mind being involved in clinical trials, however most involve NOT taking any medication except what they prescribe. Thats a hard call for someone like me that is receiving a measure of relief from the meds that are prescribed.
And I agree 100 percent, I don't personally experience any euphoria from my meds, I actually prefer it that way.
Even with oxyc, its a boon to my life. I understand that some do not like it. I would like another p/k since oxyc has such a bad rap. I also worry that that my PMD may quit prescribing just because of it reputation, even though it works, and I don't abuse it any way shape or form.
Does any one have links for the other meds?
thanks
trixxie
--------------------
The truth shall set you free!
|
lespierce
Journeyman
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 53
|
|
I find Duragesic to be very effective, especially once my script was changed to replace the patch every 48 hours. I now have very little pain, and much less break through pain. I have tried many different forms of pain control, and find Duragesic to be the best so far. Everyone's body is different, and everyone responds to medication in different ways. We all need to find out what works best for us.
It's also nice not to have to take multiple pills throughout the day. I do take som hydro for breakthrough pain occasionally, but I find that Duragesic does the trick for me. Plus, it does not space me out, or give any kind of euphoria. I do get a little lift from the hydro, which is why I think hydro is abused by some people.
The new oxytrex drug, seems like it may be a real good choice for some people. For now, I am sticking with what works :-)
|
rockystuart
Enthusiast

Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
|
|
OH and the Oxytrex is not putting in the narcan(naxoline) for a synergestic effect(check the oral availability of NARCAN; they are using 25% wich is inactive orally - but enough to keep the hypes from shooting it (just like temesic brands suboxone/subutex(buprenorphine).
Maybe if they burned all the OXYIR, OXYFAST, and OXYCONTIN and made oxytrex teh only available it might work.
Another case where the mfr uses a plausable scientific argument when they dont REALLY want to say why they need NARCAN in the tablets(injectable abuse). and It will be doubtless MORE EXPENSIVE, patentable for 7 years and NATURALLY the preferred OXY of choice. Expect to see a OXY 20 go from $2.50 (at walmart with trip-script) to $4-5 for a OXYTREK 20.
Besides OXYCODONE doesn't really qualify as a new drug; and if you look into it NARCAN(naxolone) 1%-2% synergy is not a fixed thing - people differ. The best synergist effect is achieved by pacebo and a believing patient (sort of like buspar or paxill for Panic/anxiety - it works in 50% of cases because the panic was'nt organic to begin with
|
rockystuart
Enthusiast

Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
|
|
hI MY LAST COMMENTS APPLY TO THE REMOXY oxycodone/NARCAN tamper proof product - not the oxytrek product -
I am familar with remoxy and their efforts .
could not find oxytrek content info (only trial test from the link) But that stands to reason if it is proprietary.
Currently I avoid tolerance addiction by taking at least a 1 week a month off from pain meds.
All and all there are no NEW painkillers listed in this thread - only reformulation repackage and abuse prevenitives. Dilotta (oxymorphone ) was a good painkiller - but pulled off the market due to abuse in the 80's. Since everyone(except me - I hate needles - takes 3 people to give me a shot) was injecting it the kept Numorpham(oxymorphone injectable solution) on teh market.
Goo Luck getting it outside a hospital or ER.
|
IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
|
|
I think all the pharmaceutical companies are simply paying lip service to formulating pain meds sans any euphoric effects, since they are currently making God knows how much money from diversion....it's a dirty little secret, but if you get rid of the euphoric effects, perhaps 1/2 of their customer base will disappear --poof, and they know it. They all say they are against diversion but it's lining their pockets BIG TIME and I think it'll be a long time comin---much to the chagrin of legitimate pain patients who rely on pain meds just to live a normal life, and not to get high
|
fromabove
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/20/04
Posts: 213
|
|
Quote:
That is great news BUT..........................
Towards the first of this year, this same type article
came out that goverment and drug manufactures are working
on new formulations that would take the "Europhia, Etc"
away most pain meds in a hope to curtail improper drug user.
Yes, there are people who use pain meds when they don't have any geniune pain problem for fun but for the most part real chronic pain patients are now being punished by the minorty of people who pulls a bogus need.
I for one sometimes feel euphoria from just imitrex. I know that sounds stupid, and it really isn't the imitrex that causes the euphoria. Knowing that imitrex does not induce euphoria, I think my euphoria comes from my pain leaving my head. So for me I think they should be working on taking the physical addiction away from opiates rather than the euphoria. Just my opinion.
--------------------
The truth is out there...
|
Listvoer
Board Addict

Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
|
|
WOW, you get some euphoria from Imitrex?? You lucky lucky person... I occasionally have to take imitrex for migraines, and it's almost a guarantee that it'll kill the headache BUT about 90% of the time I find myself in the bathroom throwing up about an hour later. I wouldn't abuse it if it did give euphoria, but i'd sure love to lose the stomach-illness aspect it gives me! I've not tried the injectable so maybe it differs, but with the pill it almost always makes me sick so it's a gamble - no headache but puking, or headache and MAYBE puking but no imitrex. What a fun malady!!
AS to the whole 'does it cause euphoria' debate, I say what's the freakin' big deal about a little euphoria? Isn't that a POSITIVE for a person who has had the opposite of euphoria for far too long? I thought part of the pain relief was the fact that I felt better because the euphoria/feeling good was blocking the symptoms of pain. I'm not talking about heroin euphoria or anything like that, nope, but i'm just befuzzled at most folks' reaction when asked if the med made them feel good (not OK, not average, but actually a little better than usual) most act as if they want to shout from the rooftops "I don't get any joy at all from my medicine that takes away my pain!! " Just because you're happy that you're not hurting doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Call me crazy, but I don't get "high" from my meds but I would say it's a bit euphoric just because i'm so darn happy to not be in pain.
Just 2¢ from a crazy old-timer...
L
--------------------
Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
Antagonists of excitatory opioid receptor functions enhance morphine's analgesic potency and attenuate opioid tolerance/dependence liability
by
Crain SM, Shen KF.
Department of Neuroscience,
Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
Yeshiva University, Bronx, New York, USA.
Pain 2000 Feb;84(2-3):121-31
ABSTRACT
Recent preclinical and clinical studies have demonstrated that cotreatments with extremely low doses of opioid receptor antagonists can markedly enhance the efficacy and specificity of morphine and related opioid analgesics. Our correlative studies of the cotreatment of nociceptive types of dorsal-root ganglion neurons in vitro and mice in vivo with morphine plus specific opioid receptor antagonists have shown that antagonism of Gs-coupled excitatory opioid receptor functions by cotreatment with ultra-low doses of clinically available opioid antagonists, e.g. naloxone and naltrexone, markedly enhances morphine's antinociceptive potency and simultaneously attenuates opioid tolerance and dependence. These preclinical studies in vitro and in vivo provide cellular mechanisms that can readily account for the unexpected enhancement of morphine's analgesic potency in recent clinical studies of post-surgical pain patients cotreated with morphine plus low doses of naloxone or nalmefene. The striking consistency of these multidisciplinary studies on nociceptive neurons in culture, behavioral assays on mice and clinical trials on post-surgical pain patients indicates that clinical treatment of pain can, indeed, be significantly improved by administering morphine or other conventional opioid analgesics together with appropriately low doses of an excitatory opioid receptor antagonist.
----
Queen's Researchers Discover Paradox Of Pain Control; Morphine Effectiveness Restored To Between 80 And 90% Of Original Amount
(Kingston, ON) -- A surprising discovery by researchers at Queen's University could lead to the development of more effective pain-killing drugs, with fewer side effects, for terminally ill patients or people suffering from chronic diseases such as cancer or severe pain due to nerve damage.
In a paper that appears in the February 2002 Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, a Queen's team led by Dr. Khem Jhamandas of the Dept. of Pharmacology and Toxicology reports the "paradoxical" findings of their research on opioid drugs such as morphine. The usefulness of these powerful drugs can diminish dramatically after their prolonged use: a phenomenon described as drug tolerance.
Jhamandas and colleagues have found that in vanishingly small doses, opioid antagonists - normally used to block the toxic effects of opioids - instead enhance pain-killing action in experimental models. As well, they discovered that the development of tolerance to morphine was inhibited, and in cases where tolerance had already developed, it was actually reversed.
"When we received the results from the first experiment, I couldn't believe it. Everything we knew up to that point indicated that it shouldn't work - but it did!" says Jhamandas.
Combining an opiate "agonist" like morphine with its "antagonist" - in this case, the drug naltrexone - is a radical approach that was inspired by suggestions in the scientific literature that opiates have both stimulatory and depressant effects, says Jhamandas. Both types of drug act on opiate receptors which are located on nerve cells that transmit pain signals. When activated by morphine, these receptors will powerfully suppress pain.
"We decided it wasn't a question of whether a drug is agonist or antagonist, but rather a question of the dose," he explains. "In higher doses, the antagonists will very effectively destroy the effects of morphine or any other opiate drug, and traditionally they have been used to reverse toxic effects of opioids. But the paradox is that, in extremely small doses, the antagonists augment morphine's analgesic action, while reducing the development of tolerance to it. Where tolerance had already been acquired, the effectiveness of morphine was restored to between 80 and 90% of its original amount."
The latter finding is particularly significant for people with chronic illnesses who require long-term use of these drugs to control their pain. As tolerance to the drugs develops and the dose is subsequently increased, there is a greater potential for harmful side effects. As well, the manifestations of physical dependency - although not a major concern in terminal illness - can also act to increase the pain, notes Jhamandas.
The multidisciplinary Queen's research team - comprising Khem Jhamandas and graduate students Kelly J. Powell and Noura S. Abul-Husn from Pharmcology and Toxicology; and Asha Jhamandas, Mary C. Olmstead, and Richard J. Benninger from Psychology - has discovered that the interaction between morphine and antagonists occurs at specific sites in the spinal cord that transmit pain signals to the brain, and has provided quantitative measures of the observed effects. This research has been funded through the Canadian Institutes of Health Research (CIHR).
Further studies could be linked to the development of more effective pain-killing drugs that require lower dosages, have fewer side effects, and remain effective with repeated use, says Khem Jhamandas. Another area that may benefit is the treatment of neuropathic pain, which results from nerve injury, and responds poorly or not at all to opiates. If the mechanisms contributing to neuropathic pain are similar to the mechanisms contributing to the development of opiate tolerance - as is being suggested by certain studies - it is possible that ultra-low doses of antagonist drugs may help to "unplug" this resistance as well, he suggests.
The next step in this investigation will involve clinical trials to determine if the same results that have been shown in laboratory rats can be produced in people.
"This is exciting because there are so many potent chemicals in the brain that can influence pain, and we're just beginning to comprehend their functions and their promise for yielding treatments providing optimal pain relief," says Jhamandas. "In understanding how pain transmissions occur, we're learning the 'biology of pain' with the objective of making drugs that will work better."
For further information or to arrange an interview, please contact Nancy Dorrance, (613) 533-2869, or Nancy Marrello, (613) 533-6000, ext. 74040, at Queen's News and Media Services.
----
Remember, New Opioid pills that inhibit the devolopment of tolerance would also have less dependance and less withdrawal when you go off them, because the receptors arent so desensitized. I believe DAMGO should be more look into though too, it might be better than the ultra low naltrexone. FOr more info, search: Damgo Opioid
|
Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
|
|
I've used naloxone with hydro (30 micrograms of naloxone, 10mg hydro) and I noticed that the euphoria was unchanged, but the analgesia was enhanced.
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
if a few nano or micrograms of naltrexone can have that benefit without affecting the other drug, thats great. where can i get naltrexone? lol, all i would need is one pill is i can kpep scraping off a a tiny speck
|
rockystuart
Enthusiast

Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
|
|
Hi Tone and anybody else out there; Naloxone is also known as NARCAN. It is what they give you for opiate OD. I get mine from an ambulance driver (it not watched/counted) TO buy check E-mail source esp in india/paki/rumania etc.
And I want to meet the guy that gets Euphoric on a 10mg hydro - must be a lot of fun after the thimbleful of champaign, too (NO OFFENCE - but I take 40mg Hydro to be able to WALK - my euphariafrom this lasts about 5-10 minutes)
|
Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
|
|
Darn, this post might be a repeat of something I wrote a minute ago but isn't showing up yet:
Naloxone and naltrexone are both opiate receptor antagonists, meaning they bind to the receptors but don't activate them. If you take a smidgen of them with your hydro, they will statistically bump hydro off their receptors for very, very brief periods of time. The receptors, then, are tricked into believing that they are not always being activated and won't downregulate their activity. These little bumps by the antagonists are so brief that they don't affect analgesic potency of opiates like hydro.
Or, the other explanation is that at very low concentrations, these antagonists can ACTIVATE the receptors.
At any rate, you have to stick with a very low amount or else they'll do what they are marketed for, i.e. block opiate receptor activity for a long time.
I'd go with naloxone. Naltrexone has a half-life of a day, while naloxone has a half-life of an hour, so if you screw up your dosage, you have that safety net.
Recommended dosages of naloxone are less than 50 micrograms.
|
Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
|
|
Quote:
Hi Tone and anybody else out there; Naloxone is also known as NARCAN. It is what they give you for opiate OD. I get mine from an ambulance driver (it not watched/counted) TO buy check E-mail source esp in india/paki/rumania etc.
And I want to meet the guy that gets Euphoric on a 10mg hydro - must be a lot of fun after the thimbleful of champaign, too (NO OFFENCE - but I take 40mg Hydro to be able to WALK - my euphariafrom this lasts about 5-10 minutes)
Dude, I can take 5 Soma, 1mg of Xanax, and 3 hydro and just feel a little numb. I think it depends on your adrenaline levels. For instance, take a hydro in the middle of some kickass conversation you're having with someone. 30 minutes later you get so into the conversation you can start getting teary-eyed from your emotion. Afterwards, expect a pounding headache. I used to sell stuff on Ebay and eat only salads, so I had that energy that comes with initial starvation, plus the hydro, plus the activity of designing websites to make tons of money. I got so euphoric it was incredible. I couldn't even sleep, some nights, it was so intense.
Other times, though, I take a hydro or three and feel nothing but numbness and depression. I really think it is context-dependent.
I haven't done scientific studies, but I think it works with its analgesic properties, too.
|
tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
|
|
Yes Naloxone is a treatment for OD for opioids. We arent talking about that. as you can read, we are talking about how ultra low doses of an antagonist with an opioid has a deminishing affect on tolerance, a new med has been devoloped that has ultra low naltrexone with oxycodone and you dont get as tolerant too it.
people can get euphoric on 10 mg of hydrocodone, its called not having tolerance. you take a lot more hydro daily, of course your not going to get a huge effect from 10 mg. duh
|
fromabove
Enthusiast
Reged: 08/20/04
Posts: 213
|
|
Yep, like I said, I think it's a false euphoria just because the headache is gone. Maybe giddy would be a better word. Also, I would never abuse it either because I couldnt afford $15.00 each. I use them sparingly, sometimes to the point where I wait too long then they don't even work. I think everybody who uses them knows that you must take them before it comes to a peak, or better yet, you need to catch it as soon as you think you might be having one or they usually don't work.
--------------------
The truth is out there...
|
Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
|
|
This is just an update for those who didn't catch it earlier:
A non-abusable form of OxyContin is 10-12 years away, says Purdue Pharma. Three years ago, when OxyContin came onto the market, they said they'd have this in three years. Well, a press release from this summer pushed the date back a decade or so. Oh, well. I would think that they have an incentive to do this, because they have already lost their patent on OxyContin and generics are eating into their profits. A non-abusable form might be patentable. But for some reason they haven't been able to get the naloxone or naltrexone in there. Does anyone know how OxyContin's time release system works? If it's so easy to destroy, it must not be very complicated. I don't know why they don't try something like Avinza, a non-abusable form of morphine. It's made of these nano-beads that contain morphine. An outer coating surrounds these beads and swells up in the presence of water. It acts as a matrix that lets morphine out at a certain rate. Oxycodone is very similar to morphine, molecularly. Would the technology patent be too expensive to lease from whoever makes Avinza?
The second item is that Purdue is undaunted by the deaths of those abusing OxyContin and have just received FDA approval for a time-released version of Dilaudid, with pills containing up to 32mg. Now at first blush this is pretty funny, because junkies dream of Dilaudid and could care less about oxycodone, so this would be a step up for the street drug market. BUT, snorting Dilaudid isn't as much fun as oxycodone, perhaps because of absorption issues in the nose. I dunno. At any rate, you can reach a euphoric ceiling with Dilaudid, though snorting more of it can still kill you. Injecting it would be a lot more enticing to abusers, because the effects of Dilaudid just mop the floor with the effects of oxycodone. But it's apparently very hard to get OxyContin into a solution that you can inject, despite misinformed articles about OxyContin abuse. So you'd predict the same from this new time-released Dilaudid. So whaddya think, is this better or worse for patients who need these things? Do you think this new pill will replace OxyContin? Do you think it's going to be abused as much?
|
rockystuart
Enthusiast

Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
|
|
Both oxycontin and MScontin from purdue use digestable wax to control med release. OXYCODONE costs about 2cents a mg to make. using a expensive delivery system would HURT PROFITS.
I know that in teh suboxone/subutex products (buprenorphine w/ NARCAN(naloxoline) that a 25% ration of NARCAn is inactive orally but prevents injection. But Buprenorphine is active in 3-8mg doses. Cannot imagine what is holding them up.
|
rockystuart
Enthusiast

Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 206
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
|
|
APPARENTLY VERY HARD TO GET OXYCONTIN IN SOLUTION FOR SNORTING/INJECTING!!!!! I have heard that all you need is a spoon and some water (skim off the melted wax) store in a measured dose sinex bottle (47 sprays per bottle).
Purdue could come out with a unabuseable oxy product tommorow - but then the share of their 2 billion dollar market that was rec. would go IMEDIATELY to the generic manufacturers.
and HydroM(Purbue introduces 12mg time rel-hydromorphione) is not very mean (RP=6xMorp)- OxyM is mean(RP = 15x Morp)
But I digress and I know this post borders on rec./abuse/glorifying. I've been typing 1 hour and my backs huring and I get cynical sometimes
|