Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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Tone's post has some great alternatives... i've only tried about half of them but those worked to some degree or another.
Just a note, but IME and from what i've learned from just about everyone I know who i've talked to this about that has been prescribed trazadone for sleep, most if not all complained about horrid nightmares after a few weeks' nightly usage. I know it was enough for me that I preferred insomnia/finding a new med than to have those dreams every night. Not your 'scary monster' or 'I'm falling' type of dream or anything like that, but gruesome & frightening, gory and graphic stuff about people & things in daily life that was worse than the insomnia.
Hope you have good dreams! My personal fix for insomnia right now is 20mg valium (or 2mg xanax or 20 mg Nitrazepam or 2mg clonazepam or 2mg lorazepam or 15 mg restoril or 12 mg bromazepam...), plus 3 mg melatonin, a glass of chocolate milk and listening to Coast to Coast AM very quietly in a dark room.
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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want2bcalm
Member
Reged: 04/03/04
Posts: 120
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Do you take the melatonin and the xanax together?
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kt68
Newbie
Reged: 07/21/04
Posts: 40
Loc: NC
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Started with 25mg last night as the doc said.. not much different than other nights. I didn't take the whole pill cuz I was afraid of feeling hung-over. I appreciate all your help and now someone is arguing with you - sorry for that. I am no pro but to me taking it with food would seem to make it absorb slower thus stretching out its affects... and that is what I want. As far as the ambien, (the oher person mentioned it was strong) It is strong, but it doesn't last for me. I have no trouble getting to sleep, the ambien is great for that. I need something that is gonna stay in my system and help me sleep for 6 to 8 hours - and hopefully with no hang-over the next morning. I have 3 kids and have to get up at 6am to get them ready for school. I can't be a slow starter in the mornings if you get my drift!!! So, again -- emtp3 and others thanks...
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TTFN' Kim
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Once I Stopped to think... Sad part is I never started back!!!
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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Quote:
Do you take the melatonin and the xanax together?
Yeah, most when I remember the melatonin. I'm almost convinced that for me, melatonin only works due to the placebo effect (I think it'll help so it does even though it actually does nothing). If you choose to shop at www.avoidmiddleman.com you can even get xanax that has melatonin combined with it in one pill. I"ve never bothered, but i've seen it listed FWIW.
L - long-time insomniac
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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bonaventure
Stranger
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 11
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I've used 10mg of timed-release melatonin with some success for five years.That said my drug tolerance is high...my wife takes 6mg.
Dreams are vivid always and "dark" once or twice a month.The primary benefit, for me, is a quick return to sleep from the dozens of awakenings.If I forego dinner or just have a light snack and two glasses of wine, I get 5-6 hours cumulative sleep nightly.
Some drowsiness is present during the day and skin blemishes and itchiness increase.
I would prefer not experimenting with its undocumented long term side effects but I've resisted returning to Valium, Ambien or Halcyon as all were difficult to stop.
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Mark
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Purple
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/15/03
Posts: 233
Loc: Midwest
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kt68,
I have been on Trazodone for a few months now. 100mg 45 mins before bed. Worked like a charm, slept for 12 hours! That was fine during the summer when the kid's were out of school, now that they're back I cut back to 50mg a night since this past Monday. I should have tapered from the 100mg to 75mg to the 50mg because the first 3 nights I was just laying there listening to my husband sleep. But last night I slept a little longer and am hoping I will sleep thru the night until I have to get up at 6:30am to get my 3 kids ready & off to school.
I have taken the Traz on an empty stomach, with a snack, right after a full dinner and I have to say that either taking it with a snack or immediately after dinner does make it kick in better than on an empty stomach. I still have been able to function in the evening to get the kids to bed. I took 50mg around 7pm and it's now 7:45 and I feel my muscles relaxed a bit, I am here typing this with no problems. I have taken it as early as 6pm and been fine in the evening. I am now also going to bed early so I can get the 7-8 hours of full sleep.
I hope this helps you. If you need any help, let me know.
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Stardog
Member
Reged: 08/28/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Where it all Begins
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Chamomile tea knocks me the Best Kept off the Board out. Back when I drank it every night, my girlfriend would get upset at me for it. I got so much out of it that I bought a pound of chamomile flowers so I'd never run out.
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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Regarding melatonin, I don't think it's been proven to not be harmful (or be helpful, actually) when taken in large doses. I've not done much research on it since it was the 'new thing' quite a few years ago, but at that time studies seemed to show that doses as low as .25 mg was more than enough for most people (I got the same from .25mg as I do with 3mg, but I can't find the little ones here), as melatonin is naturally made in your brain (the pineal gland, I believe) so you don't need to add much to trigger it. I do remember reading studies where patients were given either a sugar-pill, .25mg melatonin, .50mg, 1mg, 3 mg, 6mg, 12 mg, and 15 mg. When all was said and done, the results were almost uniform among the patients who didn't receive the placebo. There was concern over whether over-use of melatonin would dampen the natural production of melatonin by your body and whether it would return or was a permenant change in brain chemistry, just making the problem worse in the long-term. I'm not saying it's necessarily dangerous but AFAIK it's not the type of drug where more is stronger, but more along the lines of once your brain detects the presence of melatonin (no real matter the amount) it starts your internal clock towards bedtime. You might want to look up the latest info on the stuff because for a while, a couple years ago, there was some controversy over this one and how much was really needed for proper relief and whether it was truly safe for everyone. Not to be confused with l-tryptaphan, which AFAIK has no dangers except for that bad batch that got the product pulled from US shelves in the 1980s..
Oh yeah, and i'm no doc but AFAIK melatonin definitely should not cause skin blemishes and itchiness and I think i'd have that checked out. That sounds like some kind allergic reaction that may be more serious and unrelated, and certainly a need to be taken care of..
Good luck
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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paisant
Newbie
Reged: 03/02/04
Posts: 48
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Two suggestions from experience for short term (2 weeks max) for sleep aids # 1 is a benzo called Dlamane, it is made for sleep, not like valium or any other benzo, just speep, and it works well! 20-30mg 30 min b4 bed is what worked for me
#2 Catapress aka Clonodine, is not a contrilled substance, thoug it does require an RX. It is a blood pressure med, but is used for many other thing including hydro wd and sleep ( caution it is not a benzo but if you take it more than a few times, do not stop suddenly. Any Dr. would rz ethr of these.
#3 combine both. and you will sleep hard. I am not a DR so please talk to one but my advice is solid
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4122
Stranger
Reged: 06/21/04
Posts: 12
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hey prettyhead,trazodone is great for getting me to sleep,good luck
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xytx
Newbie
Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 26
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If you're a hardcore insomniac (as I am), Ambien might not be a great choice. The stuff makes you sleepy, but it can also do weird things to you like make you halloucinate when it starts working. Sometimes I get so caught up in the weird visuals I'm seeing, I "forget" to go to sleep, and I end up staying up despite the meds. Then I do weird things like walk around the house, call people, eat tons of junk food, etc... The worst part about it is that it commonly causes amnesia during these episodes, so I'll wake up to food wrappers all over my room, food in my bed, weird writing in my notebooks, and confused friends calling to check on me. It is also short-lived, so you may find yourself waking up REALLY early in the morning (4 am), too close to wake-up time to dose again and get some sleep.
Last time I took it, I woke up for class and literally saw tracers when I waved my hand in front of my face, like I imagine LSD to be. It looked just like a 1960's drug movie... My doc said it was not physically addictive, as it is out of your system in 8-10 hours, but people become psychologically addicted to it to get to bed. If you do try it, take it and get in the bed ASAP. Don't do anything of any importance after you pop that pill -- it works in less than 15 minutes sometimes. If you can, have someone else in the house who knows what's going on and can help you out if something goes wrong. Lock up the remainder of the meds, too, because in your stupor you may think it's not working and re-dose, or even forget you took it. I know people who swear by it, and my doc thinks it's great for long-term use, but it is DEFINITELY not for me.
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sunflower29
Member
Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 147
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I've had a similar experience with Ambien. I've only taken it twice but both times it actually made me a little hyper. I started doing tons of stuff, like things I can't usually get myself to do, and all of a sudden I had this urge to do all these chores. Very strange. Definitely not sleepy, but just a semi-unreal feeling, but not unpleasant. It actually improved my mood like a stimulant as well as making me want to stay up and do stuff.
I think my reaction must be unusual if this is a popular sleep aid. Makes me wonder about my brain and why it's Best if kept off the board backwards. Actually it would explain a lot...
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dsmmcm
Board Addict
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 361
Loc: southwest US
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It sounds to me that you are fighting it. Ambien is used recreationally by fighting the drowsy feeling, which can lead to hallucinations. I know you're not doing that, but try to take it on an empty stomach, in bed, and read or something for 30 min. Then just clear your mind (I know, that's hard to do!), and try to relax. For me, I don't even know that I'm drowsy, I just fall asleep. It might not last all night. It does have a short half-life; but that is exactly why it is so good. You should not have a hangover the next day. It depends a lot on your own physiology: if you need 8 hours/day of sleep, there is no pharmaceutical solution that will do that and be safe for long term treatment. If you can get by with six hours, ambien can do it for most people.
Now I will make a radical recommendation that will probably get me blasted: take 1 (and only 1) shot of brandy or something similar. It will enhance the effect of ambien by a factor of two, and it is not dangerous (remember, only 1!). Good luck,
D.
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xytx
Newbie
Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 26
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I think I was fighting it subconsciously. I get terribly wound up at bedtime and anxious about the next day and all I have to do, which is why I need help to get to sleep in the first place, so it makes sense. Most other meds made me hung over, so Ambien seemed great with the short time it stays in your system. Unfortunately, I just can't have myself pigging out on the leftovers or finding peanut butter in the bed, ya know? 
I've heard that about the recreational use. I read about kids putting it up their nose, and I can't imagine how that would be fun. I like to remember the evening when I go out and let loose, not have people tell me what dumb things I did the next morning.
Sunflower -- I've also felt that weird "amped up" feeling when I used to take it. It's strange because it's the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. Maybe that's just more confirmation that it isn't the sleep aid for us.
As for trazodone: I get hung over from 100mg or even 50mg, so it was a poor choice for me, but my doc said you can even split the 50mg pills if it's too much and go down to 25mg. As for as sleep aids, you can't beat it for being non-addictive, and it might even help your mood as a bonus since it's an antidepressant.
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xytx
Newbie
Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 26
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I wanted to add:
Sunflower, you propose that our reactions to Ambien are probably unusual, since it's so popular. I thought so too, until I started reading up on it. My doc had no clue it could give you vision distortions and thought I was having psychological issues... and he's a shrink, and very med-savvy. The visuals are common enough to have made this med. popular with recreational users, and common enough for me to have experienced it multiple times before stopping the medication. Something is going on here. Either:
1) No one is telling their docs about this, or
2) The drug company is keeping it hush-hush.
Halloucinations aren't even mentioned on the TV commercials (the amnesia is, but I'm told that happens with other sleep aids too). That's a pretty serious side effect not to mention! Ambien is extremely popular right now, and I'm pretty cynical, so I tend to believe the latter.
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infliksta
Journeyman
Reged: 10/29/03
Posts: 84
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i've had sleep problems since i've been 12 and cant't sleep longer than 2 hours at a time it takes about 3 hours to actually fall asleep do to pain and incomfort, tossing and turning trying to fing a less painful position, and then i keep waking up either to Best if kept off the board or just for no reason at all i'm 24 now an also have had croninc back and shoulder /neck pain as well, in my book there is no answer to this sleep problem,used vals xanex and alchol not promting this method but it works the best. i have a baby on the way and wish i wasn't is so much pain i'd like to play with her as a father should. but the only plus i see to this is i'm used to not sleeping and that seems to be the big things people talk about having newborns. so maybe god just decided to bless me with years of practice, in this catagory. no matter how bad we think we have it it could always be worse.
and last melatonin does help alittle. whish this was more help than a self pitty post. love and hope to all
inf.
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we're out of our medicine, out of our minds and we're wanting yours let us in.
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 384
Loc: New America
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There's more of that body-chemistry in action. For me, Ambien is beyond useless. No matter how many I took (within reason, of course!) nothing happened. Nada. Heck, I was even curious about this hallucination stuff, not that I was trying to use it recreationally but just out of curiosity why, but I never saw anything anymore exciting than the ceiling above my bed all night long. After a lifetime of insomnia, i've found that my best sleep 'program' involves rotating different sleep meds and not staying on the same one for too long before switching. Sometimes one of a half-dozen different types of benzos I have collected over the ages, sometimes elavil, sometimes just melatonin and a wish, sometimes a shot of Grey Goose, etc. and I just keep switching around. It's not a great solution, but it works OK and it's surely better IMO than being a zombie all the time from insomnia... Sometimes I feel like i could have been cast in Fight Club... 
L - wishing for the olden days when you could buy barbs and other meds that really knocked you you....
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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