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scifi
Stranger
Reged: 04/13/03
Posts: 5
Loc: southeast
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sorry about the name thing. - truly. and I'm even sober as a judge at 2 in the am. geez.. wonder if any packies are still open......
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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And here's my two cents.
First, I just went back and re-read this whole thread.
Geez. Now I am not depressed just because I am depressed, I have a reason. My brain hurts and I feel stupid.
D'oh! What was I saying?
oh yeah; Spongemom I am exactly like you; I have gone thru cycles of hope and despair and self-medication most if not all my life. I have had snatched and stolen moments of happiness, and a lot of Hades.
I am so tired of getting hopeful that it's just some nutrient I "forgot" to eat for the last forty years.
I am so scared of therapy by now.
I wanted to say that I go thru the same thoughts as you.
I don't know what to do anymore. I just wish I could sleep. I can never sleep anymore, started when I was drug-free; but it was a hard year or two or pain and loss; no matter how long I go without sleep nothing changes it.
I used to be able to sleep whenever I needed to escape.
I just want to sleep for the next 16 hours out of every day of my life.
I hate my life. I don't feel like changing my life.
and right now it is before my period and no pain pill is touching my pain for at least four days in a row.
I wait and hope for help too.
Tone, you really have your studying working for you.
Your posts were just--wow! I had to re-read them and really think. I loved this. Thank you, Tone.
Trampy, I agreed with your view point, too. I think I have been on every AD. Prozac works, only in tightly controlling dosing with some sort of sleepaid. I hate gaining weight, as it is, I hate not being as slim as I used to be, so any drug that might cause weight gain, makes me panic. But you are right, I think a lot of the meds are marketed so slickly, with the idea of getting as many dosage units as they can out there as long as possible until each drug is limited to a smaller range of treatments for ills. When each one comes out, it terrifies me how each one is so marketed for everything all over again.
So, Thank you Trampy for letting me know I am not alone in my disillusionment with a promising group of meds (ADs) that were marketed so massively to my doctors thru the years. I remember when Prozac stopped working for me years ago. The rep was always at my doc's. He pretty much said that that couldn't happen. Every time, it takes thousands of people before the company changes its story. During that process, I wonder how many people are chastised for 'imagining' that a process has unraveled for them, until they are lucky enough, like me, to stumble on a support board and read they are not alone.
It is a special kind of torture to want to do better and to wonder if one is holding out on onself, and those around who are trying to help. The least one can ask for, is a little information.
Thank God for finding this place, it was the key to many other searches and boards that kind members here provided, and because I did not have to make formal contact with anyone; I was able to come and take the help when I could.
And Timber; I'll raise my hand. I recognize that behavior. That's my behavior, that I found I was capable of, when thru eating disorders and insane exercise, I DID break thru my endorphin barrier. All I had to do to make contact with it was skip another meal and run a little farther.
I loved it. I have never found another drug as wonderful and curative as anorexia. I don't like feeling. I like being distanced from people.
I love my cats.
I wish I had a dog again.
I was happier alone with my pet hawk
than with any group of people, I knew at the time.
Am I supposed to change?
Why?
I touch people's lives only when I want to; when I am done with them I expect them to go away. I wasn't always like this. But I got hurt enough, that I learned the pleasure of giving hurt. I prefer being dispassionate.
The only thing that irritates me is when someone expects me to feel sorry for not feeling sorry. They have no right to any emotional responses from me, unless I feel like giving it to them.
I don't want therapy so I can be a better person. I want cognitive therapy for control over myself and others, so I can get what I want in the appropriate time frame, and stop wasting my life. I am bored. I need to be diverted. This is just existing.
So; I read your post and I was shaken for the first time in awhile; I have to say; I saw myself exactly as if in a mirror. Your description of your Friday is my description of tens of thousands of days.
But those are my good days.
I just want to like myself. I don't really care if anyone else does. People are like Kleenex; there is always a fresh box to open; why keep the old. When was the time you saw a family that tried to get along? All the friends who try to hang on to me want something from me. There is always a windup and then, they want something from me. People want stuff.
I don't want anything from them.
I just want my life, anyway anyhow, at any cost.
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Edited by prettyday (08/26/04 04:17 AM)
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blissmiss
Member
Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Connecticut, via Illinois, Mis...
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Kindness, as one moment teaches another, is the best gift we can ever give one another.
Hence: Do I need another pill, Or do I want another pill?
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Do you not see how necessary a world of pains and troubles is to school an intelligence and make it a soul?
John Keats 1795-1821, British Poet
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
Search your heart, am I in pain, am I an addict, am I filling some other void, or am I in pain.
You will know, just listen.
Theres no difference, someone who seeks drugs is obviously in mental pain. so its all pain. Physical pain is pain. Mental Pain is pain. Void is pain. filling a void is not any different than treating physical pain. what are you talking about? society could just as well been reversed and say that treating phsyical pain makes you an addict and treating mental pain is ligit. theres no difference, youre all just going to go with whatever.
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spongemom
Journeyman
Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Tennessee
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Recently on the news....all over the news... was a big contraversy on Paksil.
anyone remember? Apparently a person in the "report writing department" wrote up a study on paksil and noted that among those taking it especially younger patients there was a much higher rate of suicide and attempted suicide than any other AD.
Ok ok i can deal with that but then the story gets even better....the FDA KNEW ABOUT IT!!! and upon reading this guys report on its adverse effects asked him to "tone it down a bit" so he wrote up another one, "toned down" and they NEVER PUBLISHED IT!!!! Soon after the guy was fired and so he went to the media!!!
I dont know about you but it really ticks me off and scares me to think that the government not only insists on being my mommy and criminalizing me or anyone else who wishes to "self-medicate", but now (and probably always has been) will issue a drug KNOWN and PROVEN to cause harm to society but will continue to push the drug for the almighty dollar!! $$$$$
What kind of government do we live in when the FDA THEMSELVES lies to the public for the sake of the money being made with the pharmasutical companies????
Makes you wonder.
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OOOOOOh.... who lives in a pineapple under the sea. Absorbent and yellow and porous is he. If nautical nonsence be somethin' you wish.. then drop on the deck and flop like a fish
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blissmiss
Member
Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Connecticut, via Illinois, Mis...
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Not to be a nit-picker, but I believe you are referring to Paxil, or atleast that's what it is here in the US
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blissmiss
Member
Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Connecticut, via Illinois, Mis...
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Did not mean to minimize the concept of mental anquish, nor the need for it to be treated, as well. But in my day to day life, the physical is more real, easier to measure, and much easier to treat. Does that make sense?
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Do you not see how necessary a world of pains and troubles is to school an intelligence and make it a soul?
John Keats 1795-1821, British Poet
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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I said something above, that I had no problem dealing out hurt. I really meant, and should have added, "if I feel, however rationally, or irrationally, that I need to retaliate.
Well, it hurt (!!) to leave that statement there. Not too pretty, but very honest.
And I was feeling like I was crazy to have that urge.
Well, check out this link, from today's news.
It's an article titled "The Pleasure Of Punishment," and is relevant to the whole brain pathway course this thread is taking....
It's not about S-M, or anything like that. It's about how doling out justice, or perceived as such, sets up a pleasurable response in the brain, never mind, here's the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5820379/
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
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hey, far be it from me to say whether or not anyone should or shouldn't get whatever drugs meet their needs. And if tolerance could be overcome, we'd ALL be better off, whether we're using opiates for pain or depression or whatever. Unfortunately, we live in today's world and tolerance is the big impediment to successful use of opiates to treat depression. I think the government spends entirely too much time regulating what we put in our own bodies, and they should mind their own friggin business, but since tolerance is a reality, I think it limits the successful use of opiates to treat depression, in the long term at least. I mean, what do you do when you've plateaued out and Dr. Feelgood won't Rx anymore opiates than the 120 maximum( and that seems to be the magic number, doesn't it?) I don't have the answer, I'm just posin' the question.
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 860
Loc: usa
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Thanks for the kind words, feel free to use it whereever you wish. 
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timberland
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
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Quote:
hey, far be it from me to say whether or not anyone should or shouldn't get whatever drugs meet their needs. And if tolerance could be overcome, we'd ALL be better off, whether we're using opiates for pain or depression or whatever. Unfortunately, we live in today's world and tolerance is the big impediment to successful use of opiates to treat depression. I think the government spends entirely too much time regulating what we put in our own bodies, and they should mind their own friggin business, but since tolerance is a reality, I think it limits the successful use of opiates to treat depression, in the long term at least. I mean, what do you do when you've plateaued out and Dr. Feelgood won't Rx anymore opiates than the 120 maximum( and that seems to be the magic number, doesn't it?) I don't have the answer, I'm just posin' the question.
I'm curious about mixed agonists/antagonists like Nubain and buprenorphine. They shouldn't induce your body to downregulate the number of opiate receptors or uncouple them from their G-proteins as fast as other opioids would. They won't give you a big buzz, from what I've heard at least, but it might be enough to tide a person over in the short-term; for instance, if a loved one dies. Right now benzos are handed out like candy for stress and anxiety, but maybe you don't want to forget about it like benzos make you do; maybe you'd like to have your faculties about you in or after a certain situation, but you would like to be numb enough not to be overwhelmed by emotion.
Maybe that's a bad thing; maybe it could keep you from ever dealing with a tragic or extremely stressful event, but who knows until clinical trials are done to test the hypothesis? I take 0.5mg Xanax when I get freaked out - it worked great the first two times, then it stopped working so well, and even though I take it sporadically and only once or twice a week, I have built a huge tolerance to it! Plus, I can't remember things very well from when the Xanax was working, and it only works for a couple of hours. If I had buprenorphine, maybe a couple of Temgesic from clickdrugstore, I could take them in the morning and have them work all day. Opioids distance me from emotions, but if I had to give an important presentation that day or help bury an old friend, that's what I would need.
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago
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interesting point, there is a ceiling effect for those drugs. another option is tramadol wish seems feel like 75% opioid, 25% antidepressant. it inhibits reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine.
Quote:
If I had buprenorphine, maybe a couple of Temgesic from clickdrugstore
Packages from click to america get opened a lot and Temgesic is a controlled substance.
Quote:
Opioids distance me from emotions
its interesting you mention that because autistics are said to have a very high level of natural opioid peptides in their bodies. none of that happens for me though. Opioids seem to deepen and purify my emotions and make me more social. they also increase energy and are like anxiety-free stimulants. Im refering to semisynthetics and tramadol. morphine and codeine sucks.
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timberland
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
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Really? I'm SO much more social on opioids (it's pathetic, but that's how I got the courage to ask girls out on dates), like you. And I can get emotional and all, but I really have a hard time getting into other peoples' problems. I feel like it's always going to work out for them in the end, or I try to solve things too quickly, and a lot of the time they don't want to hear that. How is your typical experience when someone needs you when you're on opioids?
So how much tramadol do you take? I take 100mg 3X a day. I think we respond differently to opioids/opiates because I love codeine and morphine. Nothing works better than those for killing all the pain in my body, except that they give me headaches.
Good point about bupe being controlled - customs would seize it and leave it at that because they're understaffed, but yeah, you're supposed to have a script here for it to be even arguably legal, etc. I'm pretty sure that there is a specific part of the import law saying that under no circumstances can you import Schedule III drugs or higher through the mail, so I guess no matter what, it's illegal.
The darndest thing is that until 1998, buprenorphine was Schedule V !!! Can you believe that?!?!
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sunflower29
Member
Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 147
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I'm tempted to try Tramadol and see how it effects my levels of anxiety, which I've been using benozs to treat. But benzos do nothing for my depression except make it worse. I've been tempted to try xanax because I've heard it can have more of a stimulant, mood enhancing effect on some people, but it has the reputation for being the toughest benzo to taper off, so I don't know if it's a good idea to even try it.
I've had some positive experience with a few small doeses of codeine, with a definite anti-depressant effect, but I too experienced the headaches. I also found the nausea very unpleasant.
Does Tramadol generally not cause headaches and nausea like codeine?
The only real concern I have is the tolerance issue, which I'm all too familiar with from taking benzos. Although some say if you can survive benzo withdrawal, you can survive anything. I'm only lowering my doseage a little at this point. But the codeine allowed me to lower my doseage without experiencing the nasty rebound anxiety that comes on even with the slightest cut in benzo dose. But I can't risk the headaches/nausea on a daily basis. Odd that a painkiller could trigger such a brutal headache.
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prettyday
Threadhead
Reged: 02/09/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Coastal Sage Scrub
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Sunflower, you are right about the benzos. I have been put on them before. Can never sleep. I mean never. No how. Going crazy at this point no sleep.
I am so tempted to go in and ask for Valium. But you know what? A week or two later it will be just cancelling the Prozac.
It's a tough one, and yeah, you are also right to think longer about the Xanax. That's one I hear you really don't want to run out of....I was put on that...took it, but really was so scared of it; it gave me more anxiety. I never pursued it again with my doc.
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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To everyone who posted about benzo's:
I've been taking Xanax for a little over 4 years now. My doctor started me out on Xanax and then cut me off and put me on what seems like ever AD medication under the sun, all of which had really bad side effects with me. I'm being treated for anxiety & panic disorder, so why in the world would a doctor dispense an SSRI so freely on a patient who at that point knew had already built a tolerance for a benzo and seemed to be working effectively? That's what I went through. So I just decided to cut the BS and found other ways of getting my Xanax.
Am I an addict? I don't believe so, because I take them responsively, on a regular schedule and resist the urge to overmedicate when my stress levels are soaring. This might not work for everyone, but it works for me, and apparently, it's what works for even more of us, because after reading some of these posts, I know I'm not the only one taking them.
Do I like the idea of relying on taking a benzo to keep me from experiencing attacks for the rest of my life? Hell no! I really wish there was some other "miracle drug" out there that would effectively work for my condition. But for now I stick to what works best for me. Nobody here should feel ashamed or guilty for doing the same. We have problems, we have conditions, and we use what works.
As for opiates, I've taken them short term for back pain (I have 2 herniated discs & DDD in my lower back) and found that they did nothing for my anxiety, as a matter of fact, I'm such a wuss that I stopped taking the benzo's while I was on them because of the possible bad drug interactions. They worked for the pain in my back and the pain in my back only. For other people, it works for emotional pain & stress. The only way to fully understand how that works is to know how these chemical works on each person's individual brain chemistry.
A lot of you have raised some really great points here, Timberland managed to help me understand how these drugs work on the brain better than anyone else, as he has been nothing but honest about his own experiences with these medications and how they work for him, compared with what he knows about his studies on brain chemistry. He helped me to understand why my sister chooses that particular method of self medicating and I gained a lot of insight on how opiates work for people to make them feel self confident, capable of dealing with every day life and just plain "normal" as my sister would put it.
So I just wanted to say thanks for the honest posts that everyone has written on here, I now have a better understanding on how different chemicals react with brain chemistry and that it also varies according to the person taking these medications.
To the poster who said that she feels as if taking medications help her to fill the "void" insider her and help her to feel less helpless, my heart goes out to you. I can't relate to your situation, as I don't rely on my meds to fill a void or feel less helpless, but I'm sure that's probably how my sister feels at times and those words hit really close to home for me. I hope you are feeling better about things, and thank you for your honesty in your post. You bared your soul for everyone here on the board and I'm sure you are not alone in how you feel. There seem to be a lot of lost souls here looking for a solution to their various conditions, and also a lot of people who are trying to gain a better understanding of depression and what can be done to treat it in general. This thread has been the most enlightening ones I've read on the board so far.
Take it easy everyome, and most importantly, one day at a time. Once again, I can't stress enough how great this board truly is!
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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catmom
Board Addict
Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 319
Loc: Midwest
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I love your scenario, Prettyday! The poor test animals hunting the drug reps down as they huddle under a bridge in their worn out Armani suits!! 
That mental picture just made my day. God, I love this board!!!  
Catmom
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If it's not immediate, it's not gratification.
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tlynnburk
Journeyman
Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 88
Loc: ohio, USA
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trampy thanks for posting about the elavil. it always did that to me when i was on it, but i did not understand why. it was an irritating (no pun intended.. lol) side affect, to say the least. You are a great contributer and i always enjoyed your posts. Thanks again TRAMPY!!!!
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