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Pocahontas
Enthusiast

Reged: 01/28/03
Posts: 214
Loc: North
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someone wrote on another post: i personally think all the tylenol is added just to keep people from getting and staying addicted!! what a crock!!!! i wander how many have died from liver failure due to addiction to lortab, i know of 3 in this small town who've died from pain med addiction/
I just wanted to ask all about this. I have NEVER heard of anyone dying from pain meds. It seems like all stories of overdose involve alcohol or mixing of meds, not hydro alone. I was talking to a friend (and member of DB) about this today, and neither of us have heard of such a thing.
Of course, you do hear stories about kids going online, gettings meds and then die of an OD, but doesn't it always involve other meds and/or alcohol??
Even the TV actress Dana Plato who died, apparently died of a mix of drugs and not just one....Valium, hydro, Soma (??)
Opinions?? Truth???
I do use hydro myself for chronic pain and sometimes mix it with Xanax...and I do use more than I should at times but the doses that I use are quite high compared to the "normal" person because my tolerance is so high. I have even taken the "toxic" dose of Tylenol in a day and I haven't become sick from it, all my liver tests have been normal...I just don't get it!! I am only sick when I have hydro induced w/d by running out. Sometimes I make sure that I don't have an order coming for a few days just to make myself suffer the consequences of pain med use, and when I do, the hydro always works better after that period.
I would love to hear words of wisdom from others....
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~Princess Pocahontas
Aim for the moon, for if you miss you will always land amongst the stars ...
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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also, for some reason anything that is anti-addiction is either highly regulated ot outlawed. Examples: Temgesic, Ibogaine, Amineptine
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poppyale
Member
Reged: 06/15/04
Posts: 131
Loc: united states of america
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Well you have you opinions,and freedom of speach,butt yes you can die from a overdose of tylenol.
i have taken toxic doses of tylenol also,and the next day i always feel terrible,cant hardly get out of bed,and if i do i am so weak that i cant do nothing,if i try to I get real shaky and half to go back to bed just to quit shaking.
Just because you have taken toxic doses and mayby not have had a problem with it,doesnt mean that other people don't
So no it is not a crock of Best if kept off the board!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Snowpatrol
Member

Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 113
Loc: NW
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Poppy -
"Butt" is a slang word for your gluteous maximus (arse). I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself. 
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gage
Member
Reged: 11/27/02
Posts: 138
Loc: south central U.S.A.
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WELL POCahontas , i'll add you as my 1st offical FLAME! 
OH, BYE THE way im really not mad, i can take a little
critismn, BUT IM THE GULITY ONE WHO SAID 3 IN MY SMALL TOWN HAVE DIED FROM PAIN MEDS, OK YOUR RIGHT!! ONE WAS A COMBO DEAL ALCOHOL,LORTAB, DRIVING!!! not a good mixture.
the other a simple over dose of morphine, his nick name was
morphine ray,i dont know all the details on it either, he
also liked a little booze and it couldve been combo.
now the last of the3 who bye the way were all friends of
mine, i knew them all personally, did die of strictly lortab
now i dont have access to the coronors report, but i did here what she had done that day through the underworld grapevine in this smallville AMERICA, she had been buying all day back and forth to her dealers house (whom i didnt know)she had gotten a life insurance settlement from her mom'S
death that day!!!
what i think happened is she simply forgot how many she had taken,like i said i knew her and she could do 30 per day,
NO LIE IN ANY OF THIS!!!!I heard her major organs just finally shutdown!!! she was a nurse to boot but had lost her license to practice due to her opiote addiction!!
she was 39 yrs old!!!
so my apoligies for not better explaining myself, her obituary didnt say she died from to much tylenol, just like most who die of alcoholism dont say he drank himself,herself
to death!!!!
i too havent heard of alot dieing from strictly hydro intake
but if i were the gambeling type id have to bet many do
evryday and we'll never know how many exactly!!
i guess what i shouldve said is i knew of 3 people who've died in this small town due to addiction PERIOD!!!
is that better??? is that more truthful??? you wont disagree
on that possibility will you???
for addicts the choices are rather slim--im sure youve heard this before-LOCKED UP,COVERED UP,OR CLEANED UP!!!!
im talking about addicts not dependent people who use pain meds to battle pain, but those who are addicted and unable to stop or moderate without help.
i do stand bye my unproven statement that i beleive tylenol
is added to possibly prevent extended abuse.
but i'll add one more thing to that, since most of this world is based on money and profit, maybe its just a money thing somehow (my opion only)
ive often wandered why they dont just make hydro available
without the extra incredients?? but somewhere on here i think ive heard they do, maybe its the liquid form that doesnt have it???
im sure someone will know, but certainly not me, now ive also heard hydro alone is a class 2, so for so manys pain releif benefit on here i guess its a good thing it has
tylenol, ibeprofen,aspirin etc.
id like to try hydro in its pure form to see if its as effective. 
so my apoligies for giveing misinformation and thank you for pointing it out,actually i agree with you im sure most
who die with hydro in there system have other chemicals as well!! later gage
ps PLEASE PEOPLE DONT EVER JUST TAKE MY ADVISE, IM CERTAINLY
NO DOCTOR AS YOU CAN TELL!!ACTUALLY I WOULDNT JUST GO WITH
ANYONES ADVICE ON HERE WITHOUT 1ST CHECKING IT OUT WITH A
DOCTOR, THE LATTER SAID TO PREVENT LAWSUITS!!
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poppyale
Member
Reged: 06/15/04
Posts: 131
Loc: united states of america
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Very well put gage.
I could not have said it better myself.HA!!HA!!
later gager
poppyaler 
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Gage,
I am very sorry to hear about your friends. It is always a tragedy when someone dies so young, especially when it is from careless or senseless behavior. I've known a few people who have died way too young, myself. But I think that you're right, it isn't really the hydro that is the killer in most of these cases, it's the Tylenol (or APAP, as the drug manufacturers like to label it).
Case in point: About 3 years ago, a girlfriend of mine overdosed on Vicodin. Yes, she was also drinking alcohol with them (big mistake). Her husband found her just in time to rush her to the hospital, and because she didn't have a valid prescription for Vicodin, he didn't want the police to get involved so he forged a suicide note with her name on it in so they wouldn't investigate or search their house. The cops wound up getting involved, anyway, because it's considered illegal to attempt suicide, but she was never brought up on any charges from it.
She was lucky enough to survive the ordeal, but she suffered kidney failure as a result of the overdose and had to be put on dialysis. Why did she suffer kidney failure? Her doctors said it was from an overdose of Tylenol. Yes, that's right, good old Tylenol. The old standard that's in everybody's medicine cabinet, available at any pharmacy, grocery or wholesale store. Luckily for her, her kidneys eventually recuperated, and she don't have to receive dialysis for the rest of her life. I don't think that she's taken anything containing Tylenol since then, and probably never will.
IMO, I don't think that any of the pharmaceutical companies that make these hydro/opiate meds are adding the Tylenol as an extra added bonus for pain, it's really to discourage people from misusing or abusing the medication. It would, however, be nice for them to make the public aware of this, because I honestly think that most people don't think that a drug like Tylenol can be so dangerous to their organs. It can. It's probably the worst possible thing that you can take in large doses for your liver and kidneys, and people are just not aware of it.
My sister is a nurse with a hydro addiction (I've mentioned this in other posts), and she swears by Norco 10/325. In her mind, 325 mg of Tylenol is practically harmless if you're going to take hydro. You would think that as a nurse she would know better than to take them at all, but she does, and it's like watching someone you love slowly kill themself. She's 37 years old with 2 kids, and if she had any sense in her head she would try to get some help to kick her habit. But she uses the excuse that because she's a nurse, if she seeks treatment, then she'll be exposed and could potentially lose her license. I think that losing her license couldn't be any worse than losing her life, but we've been through enough confrontations at this point to where I know it's not going to do either one of us any good to keep fighting about it. I really wish there was something I could do to make her stop abusing this drug, but there isn't and I just feel helpless to the situation itself.
Once again, Gage, sorry for your loss. It's a shame that so many people are under the impression that taking prescription medication containing Tylenol is safe, but that couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. So if you're going to take hydro, my advice is, the less Tylenol, the better. Or none at all if you want to live a longer life, but that's JMO.
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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parg
Journeyman
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 60
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Eeyore,
It's frustrating but remember the first rule of addiction, no one can do it for you, first the person must admit to themselves they have a problem as a nurse yes there would be serious repro's if she went public but I can garuntee you that she wouldn't have to unless she was planning on going on methadone or a Bup Program. You may want to see if she knows that she could easily break the addiction with some Bup which I'm sure she knows a doctor she could say it's for a family member and get a script no problem, but she has to want to stop.She should if she continues to use switch to something with no tylenol in it like 15mg of oramorph or something, but hen she'd probably end up popping a tylenol to get thje same feeling as the vicodin.
Parg
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Parg,
Thanks for the kind words of advice, but the fact of the matter is that I have seen my sister go through hydro WD and it was one of the most horrifying things I've ever witnessed. She laid on the couch for 5 days, couldn't hold any food or liquid down, she was sick as a dog!! I tried to get her to go to the ER, but once again, being as stubborn as she is, used the "I'll lose my license" excuse, so you're right, she has to WANT to stop. And obviously, after going 5 days without it, you would think that by then she would never want to pick it up again, but she's convinced that it's the only way that she can stay "productive" and actively participate in every day activities.
My theory is that she is actually suffering from depression, which is the skeleton that hides in my family's closet. Both of my parents are alcoholics, one has been in recovery for 16 years, but my Mom still drinks every day. The very mention of psychiatry or psychology is an absolute no-no in my family in general. I, myself, was diagnosed with Anxiety/Panic disorder a little over 4 years ago, but I was suffering from symptoms of it for much longer than that. It just went undiagnosed because, like I said, the mental illness skeleton is buried deep in the back of the family closet and any and all therapy that I sought when I was younger was unknown to anyone in my family.
My mother now knows about my anxiety and panic disorders, thinks that it's a crock and refuses to believe that it exists. That's her opinion, and there's nothing I can do to help her, either. She's an alcoholic who never leaves the house, and on the rare occasion that she does, she has to be hammered before she leaves and will carry a bottle of vodka in her purse to wherever she's going. So it's a double edged sword, mental illness and addiction run in my family on both sides and it seems like I'm the only one who acknowledges it. I electively chose to study psychology and psychiatry by checking out books at the library, so I have done a lot of research on behaviors, disorders, brain chemistry, etc.
I have traced it back as far as my maternal grandparents, my grandmother on my mother's side more than likely suffered from mental illness because she had 3 children die (my mother's siblings) at very young ages, and was so smothering to my Mom that she wouldn't let her leave the house until she was 9 years old. The truant officers showed up at the door and literally forced my grandmother to send my Mom to school, but because she had lost her other 3 children, my mother wasn't allowed to go anywhere but to school and back. This is probably why my mother has agoraphobic tendencies, because she is unfamiliar with social settings in general. And I'm sure that being the only surviving member of her siblings had to have had some effect on her, as well.
My grandfather on her side was a raging alcoholic, so that's where the addictive tendencies come into that side of the family. I really don't know much of my father's side of the family because my parents divorced when I was 2 years old and although I have gotten to know my father better in the years since he's gotten sober, I wasn't raised around him and know very little about his side of the family. I do know that it runs in his wife's family as well, as I lost my stepbrother last year to an overdose, and she is in recovery as well.
Sorry for the ramble, I was just trying to give you an idea on why I think my sister has an addiction problem and the possible link to mental illness in my family. It does get frustrating, but I chose to take control of my own life by seeking help for my own psychological disorders, there were many things in my childhood that play a major role in why I am like this, and instead of becoming a drug addict or alcoholic like some of my family members did, I grabbed the reins, so to speak, and got the help that I needed. Once again, thank you for your kind words, it's nice to know that other people out there can relate to what you're going through.
Take care,
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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tone
Veteran
Reged: 06/29/03
Posts: 531
Loc: Chicago
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Sounds like mental illness is the culprit. opioids relieve symptoms better than any other drug. opioids are dopaminergics that do not cause anxiety like stimulants do. a drug that can incrase dopamine in the pleasure pathways without causing anxiety is very valuable. in addiction to this, opioids also have inhibitory effects and slow some brain activity as well. this synergestic stimulant-relaxant is near perfect when theres no tolerance. Of course tolerance and dependance is what makes them a not so wise option for depression and anxiety, but the government doesnt care about that because paxil also causes dependance and its advertised on TV! We will have better drugs in the future its just a matter of lack of ethics and politics interfering, not the technology.
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voyager
Old Hand
Reged: 04/17/03
Posts: 415
Loc: United States Virgin Islands
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Its an ABSOLUTE RUSE to think that apap is added to hydro to prevent abuse. Its added because it improves the efficacy of the drug. Plain hydro without apap is REALLY WEAK.
Trust me I know. I work on the inside. 
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gage
Member
Reged: 11/27/02
Posts: 138
Loc: south central U.S.A.
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FOR REAL HUH?? the apap is added to make hydro more effective??? hydro is actualy weaker without it???
well that makes sence, id still like to be able to try hydro
alone without the apap or perhaps be able to add my own!!
thanks for shareing your inside info!!!!! gage
thats whats so great about this place its a good b/s sifter
later gage
ps to the lady whos sister is suffering from hydro addiction
i hope she gets free, i know it hurts the entire family!
but it was fantasitic to hear your dad has 16 yrs of recovery from alcoholism, hes got to be a shining example
to all the other family members, plus its amazing hes been able to maintain it through watching his wife (your mother)
continue to drink, i hope she can recover herself!!
alcoholism is certainly a killer, probably more so than drug addiction (just a personal guess)
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Quote:
Its an ABSOLUTE RUSE to think that apap is added to hydro to prevent abuse. Its added because it improves the efficacy of the drug. Plain hydro without apap is REALLY WEAK.
Trust me I know. I work on the inside. 
OK, maybe I should reword what I was trying to say earlier about my friend who OD'd. She was basically told by her doctor that the mixture of alcohol and the amount of tylenol in her system is what caused her to go into kidney failure. I'm not trying to say that tylenol is evil, but in large doses, yes, it can be very dangerous, especially if you mix it with alcohol. There was never any mention made to her about the hydro in the medication being the cause of her kidney failure. The hydro is what caused her to become unconscious and unresponsive, sure, but it was definitely the amount of tylenol in her system with the mixture of alcohol that took a toll on her kidneys. To this day, she won't take anything containing tylenol at all, and rarely drinks. I think she learned her lesson.
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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CARLITOS_WAY
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 218
Loc: WASHINGTON, USA
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Hydo by it's self is Schedule II drug just as codeine is. That is also a reason it is marketed with APAP or asprin, for the schedule III listing.
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peteg72
Member
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 174
Loc: midwest
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So does that mean peurdetas (sp?) (codiene no apap) are sced II?
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And if the band youre in starts playing different tunes....I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
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dsmmcm
Board Addict
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 364
Loc: southwest US
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yes
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