microdot
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 29
Loc: U.S.A.
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Can anyone tell me if the effects of two 30mg. tablets of Codesic is the same as one 60mg. tablet of Contugesic or Dodor Continus.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Well, if both are pure dihydrocodeine, which I believe they are, the answer to your question should be yes unless the meds are old or something.
Otherwise, like any other med, DHC should be DHC, no matter who manufactures it (someone's basement and some real shady foreign manufacturers excluded of course).
That said, I have never heard of the "Codesic" except what Pharm88 calls its DHC. It does not exist in any medicine/drug reference books and a search on the internet will yield no results other than Pham88's product. So, I happen to think it's a "house" brand, especially since it arrives in a shrink wrapped package with no labeling or other identifying markings (I have ordered it).
P.S. This is the wrong place for this thread since it is has nothing to do with an "open discussion on domestic OP's." There are other sections of this board that deal with med's directly.
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microdot
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 29
Loc: U.S.A.
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"Shrink wrapped package with no labeling" That sounds wonderful!
I have tried Didor Continus (Sustained Release 60mg DHC) that I received from GigaPharma. I find this product takes a couple hours to take full effect, even when crushed. It also stays in your system for quite some time.
I just ordered Codesic from Pharm88, and am looking forward to doing a comparison. I will let everyone know what I think.
P.S. Does anyone know how to move this discussion to the correct section?
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
"Shrink wrapped package with no labeling" That sounds wonderful!
I have tried Didor Continus (Sustained Release 60mg DHC) that I received from GigaPharma. I find this product takes a couple hours to take full effect, even when crushed. It also stays in your system for quite some time.
I just ordered Codesic from Pharm88, and am looking forward to doing a comparison. I will let everyone know what I think.
P.S. Does anyone know how to move this discussion to the correct section?
Yeah, well, it does have a somewhat cheesy Rx label stuck to the plastic, not mentioning anything about the med other than it is dihydrocodeinie tartate 30mg.
But, please do post your comparison. I would love to know as I never got the chance to compare with any other DHC as I never tried Gigapharms offerings before it shut "for some time." Even before they shut they were out of stock on the product you mentioned for quite a while and the stuff is pretty much impossible to find anywhere else anymore.
I find Pharm88s variety, by the way, to be the opposite of what you described; maybe because its not sustained release.
Just swallowing whole, it takes full affect in with 30 minutes or so and, like I said, I find it effects ware off pretty quickly after only about 2 hours
.
So, I am very curious as what you think.
Also, I dont think you can move a thread. You have to start a new one.
Well, since no ones posting much, I suppose it isnt doing any harm here for now. Just beware the moderator may delete or move it for you at some point (it has happened to me before I learned to be very careful about where I start threads
.).
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microdot
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 29
Loc: U.S.A.
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I'll keep you posted on my findings. I placed the order on Aug. 8 and they shipped on the 10th. It will probably take a couple weeks to get the product.
From your description it sounds like Codesic acts very similar to Codeine. I've read that DHC is supposed to be twice as strong. I also read on one of the threads that Contugesic or Didor Continus is not really a full 60mg of DHC, but they said its close. I don't know where they got their information.
I usually take two of the Didor Continus tablets. I would compare it with taking three or four Perduretas, but like I said it creeps up on you, and lasts much longer. Now that I think of it, I would compare it to Temgesic(Buprenorphine). This medication also stays in your system for a long time. You can order it from http://www.medsindialtd.com/index.cfm?Class=Pain_Medications&do=list
I have not ordered from them, they seem to be the only source for this med right now.
I received an email from GigaPharma recently. they say they will be up and running again soon. Hopefully they will have DHC again. I'm sure its only a matter of time until it becomes available again. Somewhwere I read that its not unusual for DHC to be seasonal.
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dannytribble
Newbie
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 30
Loc: AL. U.S.
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I know this is not the right forum but do you need a perscription to order codesic from pharmma 88
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
I know this is not the right forum but do you need a perscription to order codesic from pharmma 88
For any meds you order from Pharm88, you need to check a box while ordering, saying you verify that you have a valid prescription for the med you are ordering.
It's basically a way of limiting their liability (even though they are an IOP, which by being located outside of the U.S. limits it's liability in the U.S. significantly anyway).
But it's not like you need to fax the prescription or anything like that to them. They operate much like most other IOP's in not requiring records, etc.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
I'll keep you posted on my findings. I placed the order on Aug. 8 and they shipped on the 10th. It will probably take a couple weeks to get the product.
From your description it sounds like Codesic acts very similar to Codeine. I've read that DHC is supposed to be twice as strong. I also read on one of the threads that Contugesic or Didor Continus is not really a full 60mg of DHC, but they said its close. I don't know where they got their information.
I usually take two of the Didor Continus tablets. I would compare it with taking three or four Perduretas, but like I said it creeps up on you, and lasts much longer. Now that I think of it, I would compare it to Temgesic(Buprenorphine). This medication also stays in your system for a long time. You can order it from http://www.medsindialtd.com/index.cfm?Class=Pain_Medications&do=list
I have not ordered from them, they seem to be the only source for this med right now.
I received an email from GigaPharma recently. they say they will be up and running again soon. Hopefully they will have DHC again. I'm sure its only a matter of time until it becomes available again. Somewhwere I read that its not unusual for DHC to be seasonal.
Thanks.
Now, I agree my experience with Pharm88's DHC is that it is very similar to Codeine. However, this is the first I have ever heard of Didor Continus and Perduretas. So, you lost me there. Are they some non-U.S. brand name?
In any case, getting back to DHC, from what I read, my understanding is that DHC is supposed to be more like hydrocodone, not codeine sulfate, which I am quite familiar with and dislike, and certainly not temgesic, which to be honest is not what I was looking for at all.
Hydrocodone was the fist pain killer that, for me anyway, actually worked better than plain aspirin without knocking me out cold and leaving me with a bad hangover like codeine (sluggish, cranky).
Except I hate Acetaminophen. Since I have on and off bouts of severe back pain and probably will continue to for rest of life (had operation; not doing it again; it make the pain worse in some ways although it supposedly fixed the problem with disc compression), I am concerned about the long term affects on my liver of the aceto if I continue to use hydros.
Which, though research, made me interested in DHC as a possible alternative. Now my understanding, again from what I have read, was that DHC kind of like the first attempt to "improve" on Codeine. An early version of hydrocodone if you will. Except, like you said, it is supposed to last a long time (up to 10 hours I read) which also appealed to me as well as the less times I have to pop a pill the less likely I am to use more than I should and get tolerant and addicted.
But, again like you mentioned, I found the affect more like Codeine. This kind of makes me wonder if they are selling Codeine as DHC but again I have nothing to compare it to
.
Now, as far as meds being seasonal, well, all I can say is dont you find that the slightest bit strange? Is there any other med whose availability is seasonal? Pain isnt seasonal. Neither are drug company profits. So it makes little sense to me but if it is for some bizarre reason true, I guess summer isnt its season. Maybe it doesnt like the heat?
Im sorry; not trying to make fun. It just sounds so silly to me for a meds availability to be seasonal in nature.
Also, as far as Gigapharm openning soon; I'll believe it when I see it. It will definitly be under another name if and when it happens as somebody has already bought the domaine name from them. Why they would do that if they were reopenning shortly is anyone's guess, but whatever, we shall see.
I also heard of a certain South African OP that everyone at DB seemed to love as much as they loved Gigapharm. It was only closed for a short time and supposed to reopen shortly. That was six months ago....
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timberland
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
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As for the seasonality of DHC, there's a big article on Biotran and DHC here:
http://uk.geocities.com/brown_addict/contugesic.htm
It's not complimentary, but it claims to explain the seasonality issue. Also, a poster on another thread notified us that the company making DHC for parts of Europe just lost its license to do so.
As for DHC itself, it's just the codeine molecule with a single bond at one place, rather than a double bond. This adds two hydrogen groups, hence the name. The way it's broken down by the body is the same as with codeine, so unless it's harder to be recognized because of that single bond, it should have the same half life. For what it's worth, hydrocodone has the same single bond, and its half like is only a couple of hours.
Studies testing the binding of different drugs to the mu opioid receptor (which all opiates act on, and is responsible for much of the painkilling and almost all of the euphoria) showed that DHC binds with a much higher affinity than codeine. There are probably other considerations, but the gist is that it's a couple of times stronger.
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suzi
Journeyman
Reged: 03/08/03
Posts: 67
Loc: florida
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Wow,interesting reading.
Thanks for that informative article. I had no idea dhc was that addicting! I use to order them when it was widely available and am actually glad it is a harder to get med now, for me, that is. It woked great for the pain. And I thought it was less of a pain med then hydrocodone.
--------------------
HAVE A GREAT DAY :-)
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dsmmcm
Board Addict
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 392
Loc: southwest US
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Very interesting indeed. I would not take too seriously all of the anecdotal "evidence" about the evils of DHC. Maybe true, maybe not. But the stuff on biotran and Wayne was new to me.
D.
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timberland
Enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Very interesting indeed. I would not take too seriously all of the anecdotal "evidence" about the evils of DHC. Maybe true, maybe not. But the stuff on biotran and Wayne was new to me.
D.
Good point. The author clearly has an axe to grind. I think he's a recovering addict who runs an addiction counseling website or something. Still, it's the most insight into Biotran we're likely to get.
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microdot
Newbie
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 29
Loc: U.S.A.
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I have been doing buisness with BIOTRN since early in the year, and have been very happy with the service. Very reliable and honest, no preasure to purchase more meds like mentioned in the article. I found some interesting reading on Dihydrocodeine at:
http://www.sixthseal.com/000631.html
Does the picture on this site look like Codesic from Pharm88?
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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First, thanks everyone for more interesting information about DHC which, through my own research, I have also found to be quite an "interesting" little med.... It has quite a fascinating history (including why it is no longer made in the U.S.).
I still have one big question, however, which, is what got me started on researching DHC to begin with as I eluded to in previous posts. And it relates to the affects I should expect from DHC vs. hydro.
First, let me say that I too read about the chemical similarities of DHC and Hydrocodone, although I also read a lot about its supposed longer half life. But, I basically find that, for whatever reason (and I know all these drugs very closely related opiates) hydrocodone does not put me to sleep like codeine does. The pain affects may be similar but I, personally, find it's hard to work or do much of anything if I take 100 mg of Codeine, in theory, the equivalent amount of 10 mg of Hydrocodone. But one 10/325 hydro, if anything (and we all know about this) increases my energy while taking care of the pain. It is my understanding that this is part of reason, hydrocodone was developed. At least I read it was to improve upon codeine and, among other things, eliminate the nod off affect of codeine.
I became interested in DHC after reading that it was developed for similar reasons although during a more primitive time, at least medicine wise. I read that it provides the same "lift," if you will, that hydro's do, but for 10 hours and without the aceto that I dislike.
Now, it is hard to find much information, at least reputable, about DHC anymore since it is not made domestically (or many other places it appears), so I am not saying I believe all that I read.
But in any case to sum up, my question is: should equivalent dosages of DHC (i.e. 50 mg) have the same affects as hydro (i.e. 10/325s, accounting for the extra pain fighting affects if the aceoto)? Both the same therapeutic affects as well as same the side affects?
In any case, microdot, as far as the picture in the article you pasted., it looks about the same except that the codesic from Pharm88 has only a score down the middle and no other identifying markings
.
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