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leila01
Journeyman
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 96
Loc: pennsylvania
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some people may not want to respond - that's cool. I was just wondering (even if you don't want to include yourself in this discussion) any information on people you know and the number of hydro they use in a daily period. You know, tolerance builds up so quickly, and time goes by so fast that before you know it one leads to 2 to 4 to 6 to 8. Anyone will to share experiences - if not their own, maybe someone they know to keep confidential. The tolerance/dependence on this drug is unbelievable. I for one take them and have had to take more to meet the level I need for pain relief. Anyone willing to add anything? Thanks for your help. I hope you are all doing well, but in my selfishness, I'm hoping someone out there is in the same boat I am in and maybe we can exchange experiences?
Thanks everyone on this board - my family on-line! Love ya!  
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wantabewell
Newbie
Reged: 06/28/04
Posts: 30
Loc: arkansas
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Leila01
I am new here so bear with me,I can only speak to my own long-term hydro usage. I can tolerate 2tablets 10/325 every four hours (actually every 3 1/2 hours). It's easier to precipitate pain than get out of it so I cheat on the exact time when I have to. The problems arise from the ceiling on the APAP intake. IMO the 2 tablet doses around the clock of 10/500's make me feel on the verge of TOO MUCH apap. I have taken them in as short of a time as three hours later, like Tuesday when I was in the middle of hell on earth with a 10+ migraine, menstrual cramps and a huge (left sided) kidney stone moving. Sometimes I have to chance it and hope for the best, I can't get much sicker. This is ALL just my experience.
-K-
I heard on t.v. the other day people talking abut tolerating 20+ tablets of Vicodin ES a day. That works out to 2 1/2 tablets every four hours.
It will be interesting to see others responses. Good post, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with high tolerance and questions on hydro...Though, I've took it so many years I should be able to write a book on the matter.lol
Be Cool...Be Well
Blessed day to all
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potatoboy99
Permanent Fixture
Reged: 02/04/03
Posts: 1200
Loc: Deep North (East)
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wantabewell, there have been a number of threads over the last year or so concerning the dangers of too much APAP. Most of us probably know (or should know), that it's not too much hydro that poses the most immediate health risk, but too much APAP.
There are several figures floating around for recommended maximum daily APAP intake, for short term and long term. I'll try to find those threads and post links to them, we should all be aware of these numbers!
Good thread topic, lella01. None of us can totally avoid creeping tolerance and the need for more medication. I try to deal with it by taking regular hydro holidays, although this is not a perfect solution.
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meowsie
Member
Reged: 12/16/03
Posts: 169
Loc: MA
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From what I've heard, the people taking 20 or more hydro a day often take many at a time, 4 or 5 in a dose, or more, depending on tolerance; I know someone who took 5 10's every 4 hours, now that, I imagine, would be a big problem, but this person couldn't even tell that they had taken them, had to take that much just to stay out of withdrawal; hearing this, I've tried to be very careful about increasing my own doses when it feels like it isn't working as great; I will often take a few days off hydro and just take ultram to keep myself in check!
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Luca_Brasi
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 243
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I too, have heard of people taking 4 10/325's every four hours just to avoid w/d. That's a sacry thought. Hydro w/d is bad, but for me, benzo w/d is worse.
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 218
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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One way I have avoided addiction is just the simple fact that I have yet to find a doctor that would perscribe enough hydro to last a month - so I spend 7-10 days each month in pain(usually in bed). I do this because asking to increase qty coulkd be viewed as "drug seeking behaviour"
I noticed that as long asz you don't increase qty most dr's are OK.
My old dr would let me take up to 60 mg hydro day - refill every 3 weeks (adverage was 40mg/day). I STILL ended up in ER 2-3 times a month - on max dose!
Anyone that needs 40-60mg a dose to relieve pain should be on OC or fenatyl.
And the only side effect I get from hydro is that it tends to keep me awake - no euphoria no 'nods' etc. If it make me sleepy I probibly would not take it as I take the hydro so I can actually do stuff (like walk - sit through a whold movie etc
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Pocahontas
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/28/03
Posts: 214
Loc: North
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If I had it my way, I would take 20+ hydro 10/325 daily along with Ritalin to stay awake. That would mean 4-5 hydro 5-6 times a day. If I don't take Ritalin with it, I am constantly dozing off. I am Rx'd Ritalin for adult-ADD/head injury. At this dose, I feel happy, am not depressed, have TONS of energy and get lots of stuff done.
In reality and safety's sake, I will usually take 4 upon awakening and then 2-3 several hours apart for a total of about 10-14 a day, but then get real sleepy without Ritalin.
By telling my story, I do not recommend anyone follow my lead or take my advice to do this same regimen for themselves. It works for me.....
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~Princess Pocahontas
Aim for the moon, for if you miss you will always land amongst the stars ...
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Luca_Brasi
Enthusiast
Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 243
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Strange. I was under the impresion that when a person with ADD takes Ritalin it actually calms them down.
Quote:
DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Methylphenidate is a medication that stimulates the central nervous system (brain) in a manner that is similar to the amphetamines; however, its actions are milder than those of the amphetamines. An additional difference is that methylphenidate produces more noticeable effects on mental activities than on motor activities. Methylphenidate and amphetamines both have abuse potential. In treating people with attention-deficit disorder (ADD), methylphenidate produces a calming effect. This results in a reduction in hyperactivity and an improvement in attention span. Methylphenidate was approved by the FDA in 1955.
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rkjones
Member
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 159
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It calms ADHD children & Adults only! If you are not ADHD then it works the opposite. I am bi-polar and got so depressed and the docs tried just about everything but eventuallt had to prescribe ritalin. He told me that after trying everything else he could prescribe
ritalin to bring me UP put of my depression and bring up my energy level. Of course he had to watch me closely so that he didn't induce a manic phase. I didn't take it long as it kept me awake, going 24 hours and nervous! 
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Noone has to endure abuse from others, god gave us moderators for this reason!
Edited by rkjones (07/17/04 07:14 PM)
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drew684
Newbie
Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 28
Loc: California
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Hi there DB'ers, i felt compelled to respond to this post.
I was taking 2 lortab .. one in the a.m. one before bed..
And one 7/750 ES every 2-3 hours in-between. Due to a serious back injury many years ago.
A week ago my finances dried up due to other reasons...
So I was forced to taper down to nothing a day.
The first 4 days are the worst, the quaking in belly, after that it was manageable. After reading of folks taking 20-30 Norco's a day I knew I could make it...and I thought I was taking a lot. I still felt very poorly...
If anyone would like my taper schedule I will send~
I'd rather deal with pain than w/d's..
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night_shade
Threadhead
Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 907
Loc: The State of Hockey
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My PMD prescribes PROVIGIL to counteract the sedating effects of methadone for me. So far, I haven't needed to take it, but when my dose is increased again, I probably will need it.
As far as hydrocodone goes...I get this semi-regularly for dental issues (if you had my jaw/tooth issues, you would, too! UGH!) BECAUSE I ALREADY TAKE METHADONE AND OXY IR FOR PAIN, the label on the hydro (7.5mgs) reads: Take 2-3 tablets every 3-4 hours as needed for pain (with 100 tablets dispensed.)
That would consist of 24 tablets of VicodinES a day, or around 12 at the low end. As far as the acetaminophen is concerned, when questioned about this my dentist said, "if you needed these for a month or more, I'd prescribe something else." Evidently he feels that short term (about a week) use of this much Vicodin ES/APAP won't be a problem.
Now, as far as what I ACTUALLY use, I almost always have dozens of the pills left after the prescription period (1 week) ends. By the way, I always bring the bottles and their contents to every doctor appointment, both medical and dental, to avoid any problems with "abuse" questions on their end. They can count the pills if they choose to.
Just my experience. Obviously, my circumstances are different than the original poster's.
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Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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Snowpatrol
Member
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 113
Loc: NW
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I absolutely never allow myself to take more than 8 tabs per day - whether it is Norco, 5/500 or 7.5/500. I am most concerned about the APAP and try to follow the conservative guideline of not exceeding 4000mg of APAP per day. This has been true for the past two years and three knee surgeries.
If you have pain that cannot be treated with 8-10 hydros per day, then (1) you need a stronger medication, or (2) you are likely dealing with an addiction issue.
Taking 12+ hydros a day - by any medical standard - just isn't good for your body. Brett Favre (Green Bay QB) went public with his addiction at 13 hyrdros per day. My mother, who is an MSW, had a client who got up to 30 per day (I still don't know how they are alive).
Even at 6-8 per day, I know that, while it works, it's too much. Going through W/D's once a month or so is no way to live...yet it's my choice to mask the pain.
It concerns me to hear people take 3-4 hyrdros at a time. That just seems really excessive to me.
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leila01
Journeyman
Reged: 09/22/03
Posts: 96
Loc: pennsylvania
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I just wanted to say "Thanks" to everyone who posted. I wasn't sure what kind of response I would get. I know there are a lot of people out there taking many hydros (I'm not getting on anyone's case - I just knew that there were many out there) and I appreciate all of the responses (please don't take that as if the people who responded are the ones taking many, many hydros - I didn't mean it like that. I didn't mean to lump it together). I just meant that I appreciate anyone who would be willing to post anything they heard on this thread. Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it. You guys are great! Please take care everyone. And sorry for not responding sooner. I was away for awhile, but the rest of the time - you know how it goes sometimes. You just don't feel like doing anything some days depending on how you feel. Take care everyone and thanks again. 
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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Well, my sister (who's a Nurse, BTW) takes between 4 and 6 Norco 10/325's a day, and that's all that she admits to me, I have no idea if she's taking any more than that. All I know is that she's lost several jobs because they suspected her of "pocketing" meds meant for paitents and was in serious danger of losing her nursing license. That's when I introduced her to OP's, for which she gets a 90 count supply, refilled monthly, but she never seems to make it to the next month without having to resort to other sources, if you will. You would think, that as a nurse, that she'd realize just how dangerous taking that many pills in a day could be, and I'm surprised that she even still has a functioning liver at this point.
This is why I try to steer clear of hydro's, if I can help it, but there are times when I've occasionally had to take them for pain due to a permanent back injury that acts up every so often, like right now. I was asking around earlier what I would have to do in order to get some Norco or Vicodin for such an occasion, but I didn't get all the answers that I was trying to find out about.
I have records that are about 6 months old, a diagnosis sheet from an MRI that I had gotten, and I basically just wanted to know who the best pharmacy to go to was, how much were the consult fees and how to go about faxing records to them. I also wanted to know if the refills expire from month to month, because if I were to order some, I definitely wouldn't need to order them every month. I would just like to have a few on hand in case my back started to act up again and I'd have something to help with the pain.
I know I'm going slightly off topic here, but does anyone know the answers to any of the questions I've asked above.
Thanks in advance to everyone who repiles 
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 875
Loc: usa
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Eeyeore, (love the name) I'm so sorry to hear about your sister, can you imagine her poor patients...if she pockets their meds, she's probably slipping them plain tylenol and telling them it's their pain medication, then they have to suffer, that really makes me angry(I'm an RN too) and you'd be surprised how often it happens...you can always contact the nursing board with any information that may help your sister in the long run and will certainly keep her patient's safe and relieve THEIR pain....but that's not why I post...go to the main page and look up the threads on US Pharmacies and Doctors, read, read, read and ask any questions there you want you're more likely to get a response, ok?
Oh and when you get your meds, HIDE them from your sister, if she's not above stealing a patient's pain meds, she will steal them from you, trust me on this, don't wait until it's too late, good way to hide them is to get one of those HUGE bottles of tylenol, dump 1/4 of it out, put in your hydro, replace the tylenol on top, voila(you could always put something like ibuprophen in the hydro bottle, I wouldn't do tylenol, she might make the connection, ha) good luck
here's the link: Questions, comments, and general info (USA)
Edited by IMSUSCOT1 (08/11/04 06:59 PM)
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Listvoer
Board Addict
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 389
Loc: New America
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A different tack that I used after getting my meds ripped off during a yard-sale (by someone who wanted to use the bathroom of course) was to put my pain-meds in a strong laxitive bottle and put the very strong & pain-pill looking laxitives in the prescription bottle. I was sadly delighted to check the bottle after the next sale we had a couple years later and, yep, the pain med bottle that had the strong laxitives in it was empty but the laxitive bottle w/the real meds was untouched. The only person who asked to use the bathroom was a nicely dressed middle-class lady who drove a nice car, so I can only laugh at the thought of her jumping in her car, swallowing a bunch of those 'pain pills' and 5 minutes later her bowels started screaming just before cutting loose in her expensive car while she drove down the road. Sick, but karma will come back to get ya!
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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therhino
Enthusiast
Reged: 06/06/04
Posts: 223
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lol, great
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Eeyore27
Board Addict
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Where Misery loves Company U...
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IMSUSCOT1,
Thanks for the advice, and also the comment about my username  For some reason, he's alwyays been my favorite character from Winnie the Pooh. I feel like I can kind of relate to him, bad stuff's always happeinging around him but he's got the "Oh well, what are you gonna do about it?" attitude. He's all about not getting your hopes up because in the end, the best kept off the board is eventually gonna hit the fan again, so you just deal with it. Somebody once asked me why Eeyore seemed so glum all the time and my only answer was "Hey, you wouldn't be a cheerful person if you had a tail nailed onto your butt, either!" 
As for my sister, I was the one who actually showed her how to get meds online because I was afraid that she would lose her nursing license if she kept her Best if kept off the board up. Most of the time, she was taking meds from patients who were asleep when she was making her rounds (she worked the night shift), and if they weren't awake the second time she checked in with them, she'd pocket the other dose. She got fired from 3 jobs because they suspected her of doing it, but none of them reported her to the State.
I'm pretty sure she became addicted to them after she took a really bad fall while she was 5 and a half a half months pregnant and her baby died in utero and she had to be induced to deliver a stillborn.
I know that must have messed her up in the head more than a little bit, you know? Plus, she herniated a disc in her back and was on pain medication for it. So, in my opinion, she took the pain pills for the back pain and discovered that it might have taken away the pain of losing her son, and she's been on them ever since. After she was taken off the pain meds, she did a lot of "doctor" shopping and after a while, it caudght up to her and nobody would prescribe it to her anymore and when she doesn't haver her pills, she's sick as a dog!! I've heard a lot of horror stories about benzo WD, but seeing her go through hydro WD made me wonder why she ever picked it back up agian, that's the most puzzling part.
I guess it was kind of morally unethical for me to introduce her to OP's, but it's much better than stealing medication from sick people to feed your habit, right? She pays for it herself, so she's not stealing, and more importantly, not stealing off of sick elderly people.
As far as her stealing my meds, I don't have anything on hand that she'd be interested in. I have a bad back injury, myself, but I've never asked to be prescribed any hydro type drugs because of how my sister acts. I recently aggrivated my condition in work and had to go out one Worker's Compensation. The srongest meds they gave me were Flexeril and Tylenol 3. She might have tried to steal the Coediene's, but the doctor only gave me 8 of them, and I was in so much pain that I was taking them. (They didn't do squat for my pain, BTW).
My sister gave me a couple of her vicodin around this time, and found that it worked really well for my pain, and I only took maybe 5 of them in a 7 day period. I made sure to taper off of them because I don't want to know what it's like to go through hydro WD, after seeing what my sister goes through.
I feel like there's nothing in my immediate control that I can do to help her situation. I've tried a million times over to try to get her to kick this habit, and honestly, I have fecal matter to deal with in my own personal life. I know I probably seem like a cold-hearted person for saying that, but I learned from a lot of experience with people with drug dependencies that you can't force someone to stop what they're doing unless they really want to. And saying things to them about it gets exhausting. So when they're ready to get help, they'll get help, end of story.
I come from a long line of alcoholics (both parents, grandfather on my mother's side, several aunts uncles and cousins from my Dad's side) and I have attended support groups when I was younger and I just live by what it says the serenity prayer, for the most part.
But my point is, addiction is in my genes, and experts say that it's hereditary. I'm sure that played a huge factor in how my sister got addicted to hydro, she must have inherited her addictive personality from my parents or something.
But enough whining about the problems with my family already. I'm almost positive that every single one of us here on DB has had someting traumatic or unfortunate happen to them in their own lives, otherwise we wouldn't need to be taking meds for our conditions.
When pain medication is being substituted for emotional issues (as is my sister's case), then a real psychiatric evaluation is in order. She's just reluctant to get help for her depression because she is a nurse, and doesn't want that coming up in her records, and a mother, and doesn't want that to go against her in court if her husband tries to get custody of the kids.
It happened to her best friend, her ex-husband got full custody of her kids because she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for severe depression and a benzo addiction. Believe me, my sister will justify the death out of why she has her reasons for not seeking mental health treatment. Plus, she recently moved to a small town almost a 3 hour drive from where I live, so I doubt she'll be able to steal medication from me.
Not that she would need to, because I would give them to her if I knew she was going through WD, because I know what is going to happen to her if she tries to go cold turkey. I really wish there was more that I can do to ty to get her some real help, but I know her well enough to know that even though she says she's going to stop, it's just going to turn into another situation where she starts stealing meds from work again.
Sorry for all the rambling, and once again, thanks for the advice and the friendly ear. It's nice to know that mostly everyone here is so welcoming and friendly to one another. This, is by far, the BEST board in the world!!
~Eeyore
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~ R.I.P. Darrell Abbott 12/08/04
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