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sunflower29
Member


Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 147
Is there a Blacklist?
      #178005 - 08/04/04 10:02 PM

I'm pretty new at using OPs, and I know nothing about Customs and how law enforcement is dealing with what they see as a problem. But do you think it's possible they maintain a database of people who frequently receive packages from overseas that they suspect are medications, and begin to seize them?
I received my first delivery no problem, but my second which would have arrived right on the tail of the first, was seized by customs. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I wonder if my address has been "flagged" or something, and any packages going through customs with my address on them automatically get checked.
Is this totally far fetched or do you think this happens?

Is it wise to have more than one address if you're receiving numerous parcels? I was considering renting a mailbox, but if I'm just being paranoid, I won't.


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Lablady2
Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 176
Loc: New York City
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: sunflower29]
      #178044 - 08/05/04 05:22 AM

I don't know about Customs in Canada where you are - but here in NYC it is BAD!! Most IOP's now ship from the Netherlands and last three orders (starting last March) never made it to me - no letter from Customs, no nothing - just never received. One company credited my Mastercard for full refund - other one jerked me around. Don't know what u r ordering but give OurPrescriptionsforLess a shot - they have DOMESTIC shipping option - shipped from within North America - and at least here don't have to worry about customs at JFK which seems to be working overtime these days - with so much going on you would think they would have better things to concentrate on.

Anyway - they advertise on Drugbuyers and are top notch - Domestic takes about 2 weeks from order to arrival - at least where I am.

I don't know about "blacklist" - kind of doubt it - many times as was case probably with me - meds are just seized and tossed - and not even a letter........

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!


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cleo911
Board Addict


Reged: 08/21/02
Posts: 371
Loc: BFE
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: sunflower29]
      #178135 - 08/05/04 02:50 PM

No, there's no 'blacklist' or 'red-flagging' going on. Not even in Canada. It would be logistically impossible. They would have to take every package coming thru customs and type the name and addy of the receiver into a computer to cross-reference for any seizures. Just impossable, manpower-wise.

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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman


Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: cleo911]
      #178228 - 08/05/04 10:13 PM

The USPS uses super high speed cameras that process thousands of typewritten and handwritten addresses and names to process the routing of international mail. The USPS expects to handle about 800 million pieces of international mail this year. The vast majority of these will be procesed by the OCR (Optical Character Recognition) camera systems. They read the name and address and turn it from written text into data that a computer can analyze. Perfect example, have you ever had your mail forwarded? Do you honestly think there is some poor soul who sits in a room all day comparing names and addresses to a forwarding order list?? It is almost all automated, with the exception of the ones that accidentally get missed by the computer.(see link below for more info)

ANY federal agency can access the information regarding, or inspect the contents of, mail coming from out of the U.S. without any reason whatsoever because it is crossing the U.S. border.

Finally, how do people order from an IOP ??? The Internet. If DEA or ICE learns of an IOP that is violating our importation laws, as 90% of them do, then they get a judge to issue a tap on the line. Commonly refered to as a T3 tap this will capture all transmissions into and out of the given IOP's site. Even the ones that actually do use encryption are probably using a weak encryption or one that the govt already has a key to. If nothing else they can capture your IP address when you log on, lookup your name and address, then ask the postal inspector's to flag mail to your address. Under the patriot act the feds don't even need a judge's order for a T3, it just makes it more legit when they want to bust the U.S. based buyer.

I have said it before and I will say it again, buying from IOP's is playing with fire. Trust me folks, there are people getting busted, about to get busted, or "red flagged" on a daily basis. No imagination involved here, just 14 + yrs of LE and working with state and fed LE.

My purpose is merely to educate, not scare people or end up getting flamed. U.S. OP's where you actually talk to a doc and send in your records are as safe as they come. The DEA might shut them down, but they have yet to get a conviction out of someone for using them in an honest manner.

PM me with further questions, but I can't release a whole lot more. One more thing, several "IOP" have recently been found to be nothing more than illegal drug operations operating within the U.S. border. It's like walking down to your local drug dealer, only you didn't know that when you were getting into it. The problem is that ignorance of the law is not a defense.

Best to all,

Pig in Pain

USPS HISTORY AND REPORTS


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Lablady2
Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 176
Loc: New York City
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: PIGINPAIN]
      #178257 - 08/06/04 04:21 AM

Well you certainly SOUND very knowledgable - but I really wonder -if what you say is true then this is totally out of control. With all that is going on in this world what on earth is the motivation here??? Big Brother needs to devote their energies toward insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies all of whom have the politicians in their hip pocket.

It is frustrating and maddening to have pain and be prescribed Naprosyn - recently fell and that's what I was given - couldn't walk for days - pulled muscles and was in a LOT of pain. MD's are terrified of prescribing any type of "controlled" substance. So what IS the bottom line - we are living in times that create horrific anxiety - lack of jobs, lack of insurance, Bush and his nonsense and his administration's focus on making the rich richer at the expense of the rest of us - and the WORLD!

So then - try getting an MD in this country to prescribe any benzo - which are the best for anxiety etc. However, one can drink onself to death since liquor in this country seems to have been declared the "drug of choice" - and of course generates horrific tax revenues - ditto cigaretts.

Who is kidding whom here - me I will take my chances with IOP's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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cleo911
Board Addict


Reged: 08/21/02
Posts: 371
Loc: BFE
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: Lablady2]
      #178288 - 08/06/04 09:53 AM

It's a load of bunk. I've had at least 50 IOP orders and one seized.

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Therion
Member


Reged: 06/14/04
Posts: 134
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: cleo911]
      #178299 - 08/06/04 10:45 AM

I guess some are luckier than others. Out of five IOP orders I've gotten FOUR seizure notices. I can't afford U.S. based OP's and now I can't afford IOP's either. I'm very angry. My choices used to be:

A. OP's
B. IOP's
C. Live in agony
D. Suicide.

The choices are narrowing all the time.

Sorry, but at the moment all I can do is HATE!


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radiometer
Member


Reged: 12/09/03
Posts: 198
Loc: California
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: Therion]
      #178302 - 08/06/04 10:52 AM

Ouch. Do you have any friends willing to take shipments for you? I've been using IOPs for over a year without a seizure.

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Lablady2
Member


Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 176
Loc: New York City
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: radiometer]
      #178320 - 08/06/04 11:53 AM

Best recourse go with an IOP such as RRx4Less that has a drop shipper in North American - no hassles with customs - choices are limited though - mainly benzos........

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dsmmcm
Board Addict


Reged: 11/08/03
Posts: 362
Loc: southwest US
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: Lablady2]
      #178359 - 08/06/04 04:48 PM

and the same with HealthyLifeMeds.
D


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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman


Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: cleo911]
      #178583 - 08/07/04 05:39 PM

Depends upon what you order, which company you order from and how smart the IOP owners are. Think it's a load of bunk?? Go to mxrxonline and order a controlled substance. Better still, take a look at the recent trend of comments for that company in the IOP feedback area.

Best option of all... Next time you go to any major city with international shipments coming into it, go to the main Customs office and ask for a tour. Most Customs operations at airports, shipyards, etc. will give tours. You will see hundreds to thousands of seized packages.

Even if you have gotten away with an illegal act "fifty" times and only one siezed, you have just been lucky. Or, there have been many cases were ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) will allow packages of controlled meds to go through after collecting a sample, photographing the inside and outside of the package, and then waiting until they have 10 or even 20 deliveries to you before they do anything. Why??? Because that way when they go in front of a federal magistrate to request a search and arrest warrant they have a long documented history of unlawful behavior to support it. It makes the case a slam-dunk.

As for your comment about "load of bunk" I expected some flak from my posting, so the first cheap shot is free. The information is all there folks. Check out the USPS cite, research through "www.findlaw.com" and see how many federal drug cases there are for mail order drugs from IOP's. They aren't going to advertise this, but they can't hide it either.

If you MUST use IOP's keep you quantity low and find a couple of IOP's to alternate using. Don't double dip and you should be alright.

Time for dinner, no time to proof this. Sorry for annnny ms. steaks.


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sunflower29
Member


Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 147
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: PIGINPAIN]
      #178594 - 08/07/04 06:15 PM

In Canada, as far as I know, we're allowed to order meds from overseas pharmacies as long as the quantity doesn't exceed 3 months' worth of medication. Depending on how much you need to take, that can be very little or quite a lot.

Is there a similar law in the US?


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timberland
Enthusiast


Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: sunflower29]
      #178598 - 08/07/04 06:29 PM

In the US it is very specific that controlled substances are not allowed. Also, you must have a verified doctor-patient relationship to get ANY meds, and though this varies state-to-state, a doctor overseas or a doctor in another part of the country doesn't count. And he or she has to approve of the meds. I realize it may be different in Canada, but if anyone following the thread is from the US, please take note. I think piginpain is being pretty harsh and a little pedantic, but here I go throwing my hat in and sounding the same. I guess it's hard to help because so many people quote this law and all of them get it dead wrong. In the USA.

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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman


Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: timberland]
      #178632 - 08/07/04 09:27 PM

Importation of controlled substances is allowed, but only when you personally import them, vs. having them shipped. This issue is IOP's where it is common practice for the person to have the medication shipped. That is why I said IOP's are unlawful. In order to have controlled substances shipped into the U.S. you must be a registered and licensed importer of medication.

There is a new law that is proposed, which would allow persons with a U.S. licensed doctor’s prescription to order medication from CERTAIN foreign countries where the pharmacy practices and drugs laws are similar to ours (i.e. Canada).

As for being narrow minded or unimaginative (the context of your use of pedantic was unclear), I believe if you read my prior posts you would view me differently. The fact of the matter is that under current federal law importing controlled substances without an importation license is unlawful. Enforcement of this law, as with most laws, is discretionary. So that there is no misunderstanding when I refer to an IOP, I am addressing the IOP's that are most prevalent on this site and others. Which is to say that if a person goes to a web site and orders a controlled substance without a valid U.S. prescription with the intentions of having that medication shipped to them in the U.S., then the federal importation laws are being broken.

Also, with regard to your statement of obtaining controlled substances: "In the US it is very specific that controlled substances are not allowed. Also, you must have a verified doctor-patient relationship to get ANY meds" What do you mean by “in the US it”? What is it, the U.S.C., FDA regulations, or state laws?

The statement is inaccurate. The doctor-patient relationship was referenced by the FDA guidelines for scheduled substances, not to be confused with controlled substances. Furthermore, there are numerous exceptions to this such as emergency circumstances, allowances for telephonic medicine, and the fact that there is no case law, nor statute in the U.S.C. that defines precise doctor-patient relationships. There are a few vague and ambiguous descriptions, but even the FDA and DEA acknowledged during recent federal hearings that there are numerous acceptable exceptions to this rule and further legislation is necessary to clarify the issue.

Finally, you reference controlled substances and this is not synonymous with scheduled substances. A controlled substance is one that requires a prescription or in a few cases like OTC cough syrup with codeine it requires some measure of accountability on the part of the dispenser of the medication. A scheduled substance is one that has been listed as specifically requiring a DEA licensed medical professional to dispense it with only a few caveats in the area of C-V’s. For example a nurse practitioner, under federal law (states vary) can prescribe a controlled substance, but not a scheduled substance (without a doctor overseeing it).

I have been on both side of the fence. I have worked for LE for years before I was forced, due to a line of duty injury, to become a CP patient, then I went back to LE. I understand the frustrations of all persons who need medication, but have a doctor that won't prescribe it, or enough of it, to alleviate the pain because of fear of reprisals from the DEA or medical licensing board.

As for being "harsh" life is harsh, reality is harsh, and the truth almost always hurts. Yes, I am harsh. I believe it is better that I tell people the truth and help them, than lie to them for the purpose of placating them. The fact is that there are people out there who order substances such as pure codeine, morphine, and meperdine from IOP's (all these are C-2). They are honest, hardworking, CP people whose doctors aren't treating them properly so they seek the only relief they can find. In so doing they unknowingly create the potential for arrest, prison time, and the loss of everything sacred to them. It is not right, but that's the way it is. If the FDA and the DEA started suspending doctors' DEA licenses for UNDER prescribing as much as they do for over prescribing then our problem would lessen significantly.

Don't hold your breath.


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timberland
Enthusiast


Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
Re: Is there a Blacklist? [Re: PIGINPAIN]
      #178635 - 08/07/04 09:52 PM

The state of Missouri, at least, has a clear doctor-patient definition. When I lived there I had to get familiar with the law, and it looks as though lawmakers there were proactive, at least as far as regulating doctors who prescribed Schedule III drugs or higher.

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