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U.S. Doctors, Pharmacies, and Referral Services >> Open discussion (USA)

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rebel38
Stranger


Reged: 06/28/04
Posts: 11
Question!!
      #176747 - 07/29/04 11:54 AM

Does anyone know the difference between hydrocodone and codien, if any. Some OP's sell 60mg codien/300mg apap tabs. Would the 60/300 be stronger or weaker than a 10/325 hydro?
Any help is apreciated.


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NYCchick
Member


Reged: 06/18/04
Posts: 155
Loc: NYC
Re: Question!! [Re: rebel38]
      #176748 - 07/29/04 12:03 PM

I'd go with the hydro, codeine makes you itchier and more nauseous. At least that's been my previous experience with both meds.

--------------------
'Like' the modern day comma.


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poppyale
Member


Reged: 06/15/04
Posts: 186
Loc: united states of america
Re: Question!! [Re: NYCchick]
      #176762 - 07/29/04 01:12 PM

Hydrocodone is quite a bit stronger than codeine,5mg of hydrocodone would be stronger than 60mg of codeine,even dihydrocodeine would be stronger than just regular codeine,i have done some research on this type of thing.60mg of dihydrocodeine is equivelant to 12 mg of hydrocodone.dihydrocodeine and hydrocodone effect the same opoid receptors in the brain.codeine effects totaly different opoid receptors in the brain.I hope this helps you out!!

THANK YOU
POPPYALE


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timberland
Enthusiast


Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 236
Re: Question!! [Re: poppyale]
      #176776 - 07/29/04 02:48 PM

They all affect the mu opioid receptor, though, which is the most important. Mu receptors are the joy buzzers. The others are delta and kappa. Delta contributes a little to the analgesic and euphoric effects, while kappa (sometimes called sigma?) receptors make you sick. You want a high mu to kappa ratio. I think codeine is the least selective, but that's just me pulling something out of my Best Kept Off the Board.

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nycalt



Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
Re: Question!! [Re: poppyale]
      #176868 - 07/30/04 02:55 AM

Quote:

Hydrocodone is quite a bit stronger than codeine,5mg of hydrocodone would be stronger than 60mg of codeine,even dihydrocodeine would be stronger than just regular codeine,i have done some research on this type of thing.60mg of dihydrocodeine is equivelant to 12 mg of hydrocodone.dihydrocodeine and hydrocodone effect the same opoid receptors in the brain.codeine effects totaly different opoid receptors in the brain.I hope this helps you out!!

THANK YOU
POPPYALE




I have done quite a bit of research as well on Opiates and I disagree with a couple of points.

First, all opiates affect the same principle recepters. They are different mainly only in strength as well as some of the newer opiates (hydro's, oxy) have been "tweaked" by drug companies to avoid some of the negative effects of codeine (i.e. oversedation). Of course, this leads to other problems (mainly an increase in addiction potential), but that is another story.

Dihydrocodeine, from my research as well as personal experince, although an interesting and VERY hard to find med these days, is quite a bit different than Hydrocode in its effects, even compensating for the 5 to 1 ratio you correctly stated.

In fact, I found its effects much more like regular codeine than Hydro's both in terms of pain fighting abilities as well as the "buzz."


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nycalt



Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
Re: Question!! [Re: timberland]
      #176869 - 07/30/04 03:00 AM

Correct you are.

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spongemom
Journeyman


Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Tennessee
Re: Question!! [Re: nycalt]
      #177626 - 08/03/04 09:32 AM

What about the ones that biomagic offers?
how do they differ?
they have different names but arent they the same thing?

--------------------
OOOOOOh.... who lives in a pineapple under the sea. Absorbent and yellow and porous is he. If nautical nonsence be somethin' you wish.. then drop on the deck and flop like a fish


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spongemom
Journeyman


Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Tennessee
Re: Question!! [Re: spongemom]
      #177627 - 08/03/04 09:35 AM

oops

not different names....just checked

sorry

--------------------
OOOOOOh.... who lives in a pineapple under the sea. Absorbent and yellow and porous is he. If nautical nonsence be somethin' you wish.. then drop on the deck and flop like a fish


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vic7
Member


Reged: 01/17/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Buckeye Country
Re: Question!! [Re: nycalt]
      #177642 - 08/03/04 11:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hydrocodone is quite a bit stronger than codeine,5mg of hydrocodone would be stronger than 60mg of codeine,even dihydrocodeine would be stronger than just regular codeine,i have done some research on this type of thing.60mg of dihydrocodeine is equivelant to 12 mg of hydrocodone.dihydrocodeine and hydrocodone effect the same opoid receptors in the brain.codeine effects totaly different opoid receptors in the brain.I hope this helps you out!!

THANK YOU
POPPYALE




I have done quite a bit of research as well on Opiates and I disagree with a couple of points.

First, all opiates affect the same principle recepters. They are different mainly only in strength as well as some of the newer opiates (hydro's, oxy) have been "tweaked" by drug companies to avoid some of the negative effects of codeine (i.e. oversedation). Of course, this leads to other problems (mainly an increase in addiction potential), but that is another story.

Dihydrocodeine, from my research as well as personal experince, although an interesting and VERY hard to find med these days, is quite a bit different than Hydrocode in its effects, even compensating for the 5 to 1 ratio you correctly stated.

In fact, I found its effects much more like regular codeine than Hydro's both in terms of pain fighting abilities as well as the "buzz."




That is correct as far as the ratio, Hydro is approximately 5 times stronger than Codeine, however thats scientific terms not real-life experience, everybodies bodies simply react to each medication differently. You can argue that 30mg of Codeine is approx equivalent to 5 mg. But again this is only a general ratio. IT also depends on what kind of pain you are experiencing. I used to use Vicodin 5/500 which worked great. After a while however it started producing negative side effects and the analgesia was not working as it did. Tolerance may have played part of this however, when my Dr. switched me to Tylenol 3 & even Tylenol 4, all the sudden it worked great. After using that for a while, it started losing its effectiveness. I now rely on Norco 10 and Lortab 10 which does the trick. At times one seems better than the other and back again..Strange .

Bottom line everybodies different and there is no across the board 'this is more effective or better than that'. That being said however most people do tend to prefer Hydro to Codeine for pain releif. Not to mention the Codeine's side effects such as terrible constipation which seems to be very common, however it did not make me as tired like some commonly complain. But then again everybody is different...

I once read a very interesting article on medication effectiveness, and showed a table with common medication types and percetages for each, this represented percentages based on research for each type of drug based on real world effectiveness. The findings: A good majority of medication simply does not work; don't remember the specifics but they mentioned that they develop a certain medication for this or that and research shows that *most* medications simply don't work for people (like a 1 in 5 was pretty common). That is why a lot of doctors seem to "experiment" with medications they precribe something for whatever condition there is actually a better chance that it won't work as effectively for that patient and the Dr. many times have to play a guessing game... "this didnt work try this, then this and what not". This is likely common knowledge in the medical profession (of course the Drug Manufacturers don't like to admit it). And again the biggest reason cited for this is obviously the unique differences as small as it may be between one body to the next. The human body is just so amazingly complex. There are obviously some medications that are more effective across the board, and then again there is many types of meds where the opposite is true. Overall very interesting article and I wish I could site the source. Overall I found it to be rather disturbing..
BTW: Opiate pain killers were on top of the list as far as effectiveness as compared to others. No surprise there! Benzo's were not far behind.

peace'


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diggsbakes
Veteran


Reged: 09/17/03
Posts: 579
Loc: Mountians
Re: Question!! [Re: vic7]
      #177728 - 08/03/04 06:11 PM

To clear up a few points 50mg of Codiene Phosphate is roughly equivalent to 5mg of Hydrocodone. (Hydro being about 10x as strong.) However, 60mg of Dihydrocodiene is roughly equivlent to 10mg of Hydrocodone. (Hydro being a little more that 5x as potent.)

Therefore, the Dihydrocodiene is 2x as potent as Codiene phosphate and 5x weaker than Hydrocodone.


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