houguy
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Deep South
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A friend today signed for a Customs 'love letter' that came certified mail addressed to me at my home. The postman let this person sign for it. If I had been there, I would not have accepted it mainly because I don't sign for any certified or registered mail unless I know that it is coming and what the contents are. I am returning it to the sender unopened with a "Not Signed For By Addressee". Does anyone actually know what is in these letters? One of my orders was seized last month and I suppose this is the attempt by the Post Office to deliver this letter that I didn't pick up when they left a 'green slip' in my mailbox a while back. It would be rather difficult for them to prove that this package was not sent unsolicited, am I right? There is never a return address on the package and it comes from a European market where they have no jurisdiction. What do you guys think...??
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JeanneLynn
Member
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 113
Loc: The Bible Belt
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I think the letter just says that if you do not claim or petition for the return of your drugs that they will be destroyed. I've never actually had one. From what I hear though, there is rarely any trouble, but it is basically a warning to stop ordering overseas.
I have to say that I recently placed an order from an IOP and I don't think I'm going to order again. So far I haven't received my order, but it has only been a couple of weeks and I'm nervous everytime I open my mailbox that the love letter is going to be in there! I was under the impression that you could order a 90 day supply of medication from any country, as long as it was for personal use. Now I'm reading all of these horror stories of seizures, and it just isn't worth it. It is just too scary. I'm just going to stick with the American OP's from now on. It is a shame that you can get some prescription drugs so cheaply in other countries. I have no insurance or prescription coverage so ordering from an IOP seemed like a good idea, but after reading all of the things on the board, I don't think I will order again.
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andyau1
Member
Reged: 11/29/02
Posts: 110
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Provided you have script and its not a controlled med, the worst they can do is refuse to deliver...most IOP's I know will simply reship anyway if you ask.
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Listvoer
Old Hand
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 402
Loc: New America
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Quote:
I think the letter just says that if you do not claim or petition for the return of your drugs that they will be destroyed. I've never actually had one. From what I hear though, there is rarely any trouble, but it is basically a warning to stop ordering overseas.
I have to say that I recently placed an order from an IOP and I don't think I'm going to order again. So far I haven't received my order, but it has only been a couple of weeks and I'm nervous everytime I open my mailbox that the love letter is going to be in there! I was under the impression that you could order a 90 day supply of medication from any country, as long as it was for personal use. Now I'm reading all of these horror stories of seizures, and it just isn't worth it. It is just too scary. I'm just going to stick with the American OP's from now on. It is a shame that you can get some prescription drugs so cheaply in other countries. I have no insurance or prescription coverage so ordering from an IOP seemed like a good idea, but after reading all of the things on the board, I don't think I will order again.
FWIW i've been ordering monthly or semi-monthly from a plethora of different IOPs since about 1995 (good IOPs come and go), and have had a grand total of 1 package seized over that time, and that couldn't have been much later than 1997. No men in black have shown up or anything of that nature, and the seizure letter has obviously had no impact on the hundreds of other orders that have been placed and received in the years after that. I really wouldn't get too worked up about a love letter or worry too much about long delivery times. Some IOPs do take a long time, but others are pretty quick so if you do your reasearch you shouldn't have much trouble finding an IOP that you can have some confidence in.
As to signing for packages/picking them up at the PO, i've done that a multitude of times too. It's a bit nerve-wracking the first time but soon you realize that the PO worker doesn't really care one bit and just wants to go home at the end of the day.
My 2¢ after a decade or more of IOPing....
Good luck and good health...
L
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 681
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
A friend today signed for a Customs 'love letter' that came certified mail addressed to me at my home. The postman let this person sign for it. If I had been there, I would not have accepted it mainly because I don't sign for any certified or registered mail unless I know that it is coming and what the contents are. I am returning it to the sender unopened with a "Not Signed For By Addressee". Does anyone actually know what is in these letters? One of my orders was seized last month and I suppose this is the attempt by the Post Office to deliver this letter that I didn't pick up when they left a 'green slip' in my mailbox a while back. It would be rather difficult for them to prove that this package was not sent unsolicited, am I right? There is never a return address on the package and it comes from a European market where they have no jurisdiction. What do you guys think...??
Throw it in the trash and don't give it another thought. Really.
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Monte Montgomery ROCKS!
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JeanneLynn
Member
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 113
Loc: The Bible Belt
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Thanks, List! Maybe I just make too much of everything, I'm always worried about something!  Your post makes me feel better!
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bur2000
Journeyman
Reged: 12/16/01
Posts: 68
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In Antwort auf:
There is never a return address on the package and it comes from a European market where they have no jurisdiction.
May I ask what country you speak of? Letters without return address always are a red flag for customs and especially if coming from certain countries. But this rather applies to 3rd world countries, I don't know if letters from eastern european countries (if that's where your order came from) arouse too much suspicion. After all, some of them even joinded the EU lately.
Maybe you could even ask that source to put a (fake) return address on the envelope? Should reduce risk of seizure much, which will help them, too.
Edited by bur2000 (06/24/04 04:09 AM)
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Listvoer
Old Hand
Reged: 01/14/04
Posts: 402
Loc: New America
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As stated earlier, i've been ordering for years and can't think of many (actually, none at the moment but there could have been 1 or 2 i've forgotten) IOPs that ship w/o a return addy of some sort in the proper corner of the package. I have no idea if the return is valid or not -- i've obviously never tried to contact those addys -- but IME they *always* have a return address whether it's India or Spain or the Phillipines or Sweden or Pakistan or England or just about anywhere else imagineable. I can't recall ever receiving one that just had the delivery address on it.
Just my cheap 2¢ of course.. and YMMV
L
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Due to PM spam I rarely check mine so if you send me one, make sure to let me know...
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Quote:
A friend today signed for a Customs 'love letter' that came certified mail addressed to me at my home. The postman let this person sign for it. If I had been there, I would not have accepted it mainly because I don't sign for any certified or registered mail unless I know that it is coming and what the contents are. I am returning it to the sender unopened with a "Not Signed For By Addressee". Does anyone actually know what is in these letters? One of my orders was seized last month and I suppose this is the attempt by the Post Office to deliver this letter that I didn't pick up when they left a 'green slip' in my mailbox a while back. It would be rather difficult for them to prove that this package was not sent unsolicited, am I right? There is never a return address on the package and it comes from a European market where they have no jurisdiction. What do you guys think...??
Throw it in the trash and don't give it another thought. Really.
Yes, there is no record kept of seizures and it's simply a form letter advising you that something that was being shipped to you was seized and if you want to contest the seizure (not a good idea) it tells you how to do so within a specified period of time.
Before throwing it out though, you may want to keep a copy for the IOP you ordered from as they may require it for a refund/reship.
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houguy
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Deep South
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Many thanks to all who replied to my thread. Most of the opinions expressed mirrored my own. One wonders why the Customs even bother with this when they should be looking at the bigger picture....like the importation of foreign automobiles and electronics. I know we all put a big dent in the pockets of the extremely powerful Pharmaceutical industry that dump millions into the political parties. Most of us just have our share of aches and pains that we would like to take care of without spending a week's salary for a Dr. visit and the outrageous price for the medication.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
...One wonders why the Customs even bother with this when they should be looking at the bigger picture....like the importation of foreign automobiles and electronics.
Thank your government and the rediculous drug war for that one.
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rockystuart
Enthusiast
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 222
Loc: San Fran Bay Area, Calif
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HI - I disagree about not contesting seizures - IF your supplier has included the FDA insert AND you have a LEGIT MEDICAL NEED it doesn't hurt to contest. But was SF customs surprised when I showed up! BUT if your importing without medical need - no treatment plan no dr of record - then you are just mnaking it harder on those of us that DO need meds - and want to save money with international sources.
I guess most would just write off a seizure. I TRY AND PLAy by the FDA/customs rules.
I guess a contest would depend on dollar amount - a single envelope(with 22 pills) from interpharm would be a acceptable loss. $200 worth of needed meds IS not (for me)
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
HI - I disagree about not contesting seizures - IF your supplier has included the FDA insert AND you have a LEGIT MEDICAL NEED it doesn't hurt to contest. But was SF customs surprised when I showed up! BUT if your importing without medical need - no treatment plan no dr of record - then you are just mnaking it harder on those of us that DO need meds - and want to save money with international sources.
I guess most would just write off a seizure. I TRY AND PLAy by the FDA/customs rules.
I guess a contest would depend on dollar amount - a single envelope(with 22 pills) from interpharm would be a acceptable loss. $200 worth of needed meds IS not (for me)
It is illegal to import ANY controlled substance into the U.S. unless you are a licensed importer (i.e. a drug company/distributor) whether you have a script or need or not. Whether the FDA insert is included or not. If you have any doubts, check the U.S. Custom's web site.
You can try contesting all you want but these are the facts. Maybe they will bend the rules sometimes but I don't think it's worth the risk of further attention when you are clearing doing something illegal in the first place. Low profile is the best.
Instead try to get the IOP to reship or refund your money. Most will if you send a copy of the seizure letter.
Also, the one seizure letter I received required that I respond in writing. So I sign my own confession basically. Fat chance.
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houguy
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Deep South
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So if it is illegal to import a controlled substance, then the one violating the law is the seller and not the buyer, right? That has always been my opinion. But the Customs Dept. doesn't have any jurisdiction in pursuing the seller if it located in a European country so they go after the buyer. It's also my opinion that it is not illegal for someone to purchase medications from a seller in a European country as long as it is for their own personal use.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
So if it is illegal to import a controlled substance, then the one violating the law is the seller and not the buyer, right? That has always been my opinion. But the Customs Dept. doesn't have any jurisdiction in pursuing the seller if it located in a European country so they go after the buyer. It's also my opinion that it is not illegal for someone to purchase medications from a seller in a European country as long as it is for their own personal use.
Not quite. I have posted the following information from the DEAs web site. It should clear things up a bit
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"Is it Legal to Buy Controlled Substances From Foreign Internet Sites and Have Them Shipped to the U.S.?
No, having controlled substances shipped to the U.S. is illegal unless you are registered with DEA as an importer and you are in compliance with 21 U.S.C. 952, 953, and 954 and 21 CFR part 1312. Some foreign Internet sites claim they can legally sell these controlled substances; other sites, knowing that such shipments are illegal, advise consumers of ways to avoid having the packages seized by U.S. Customs. The Controlled Substances Act prohibits any person from importing into the customs territory of the U.S. any controlled
substance or List I chemical (21 U.S.C. 971 and 21 CFR part 1313) unless that person maintains a valid, current authorization to import such substances or chemicals (21 U.S.C. 957(a)).
DEA regulations further state:
"No person shall import or cause to be imported any controlled substance * * * unless and until such person is properly registered under the Act (or exempt from registration) and the Administrator has issued him a permit to do so pursuant to Sec. 1312.13. * * *" (21 CFR 1312.11(a))
Illegal importation of controlled substances is a FELONY that may result in imprisonment and fines (21 U.S.C. 960).
The CSA Provides a Personal Use Exemption for Controlled Substances Purchased Abroad. Does the Exemption Apply to Controlled Substances Bought from a Foreign Internet Site?
The Controlled Substances Act and DEA regulations allow you a personal use exemption to bring a limited quantity of controlled substances into the U.S. for your use only when you bring the controlled substances across the U.S. border in your possession (21 U.S.C. 956, 21 CFR 1301.26). It does not apply to controlled substances being shipped into the U.S. Purchasing controlled substances on the Internet and having them shipped to you in the U.S. is not permitted by the personal use exemption. Such purchases and shipments would be considered "imports" of the controlled substance even if the substance is for your personal use. Unless you are registered as an importer and in compliance with the requirements, such shipments are illegal and subject to seizure.
Does it Make a Difference if I Have a Prescription from a U.S. Doctor for Controlled Substances That I Buy From a Foreign Internet Site?
No, the law remains the same. Unless you are registered with DEA as an importer and are in compliance with DEA's requirements, you may not have controlled substances shipped to you in the U.S. from another country."
Now do you wonder why Customs was surprised when you showed up?
Like I said, don't contest seizures. You're just asking for trouble.
Is that $200 worth a possible felony charge?
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joan1931
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 30
Loc: south
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just a friendly suggestion to this whole thread, Read the law. A med dont have to be controlled to be illegal to possess. If it has a "legend" it is illegal to have without a prescription . Opinions will get you locked up when not based on the law. The whole thing about personal use, etc. , came about having to do with Aids and some other problems that meds were not available in the US for. Still if the law wants you, it's your rear.
2. "love letters" . i have had about 10 or so over the years but i dont ever remember having to sign for one. maybe i did and just forgot but i dont remember same. And i would never answer and sign , thereby giving evidence against myself in a felony. art.
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