misspiggy
Journeyman
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 80
Loc: North Idaho
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Hello, I apologize if this has been asked before but I would like to know what the law is on having certain drugs in your system.
I live very close to the Canadian border, tomorrow my mom and I are going to go there and get a couple bottles each of tylenol w/ codeine. My mom has done this for several years and has never been hassled about it at the border and always declares what she has.
But what is the law about having codeine in your system? For example if you were given a drug test and you have codeine in your system would you get in trouble?
If you get pulled over with codeine in your car would you get a ticket?
Thanks to anyone who answers!
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dman22
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 264
Loc: Everywhere
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Quote:
But what is the law about having codeine in your system? For example if you were given a drug test and you have codeine in your system would you get in trouble?
There isn't a field test for checking you for codeine. Now..if you're involved in an auto-accident, the hospital would certainly check your blood and it might turn up (depending on your last usage). Not sure what your question is about? Are you on some type of court-ordered supervision?
The only people who "get in trouble" for having codeine in their system or on their person/(car) is if you have a dirty U.A. with your probation/parole unit, do not have a prescription for it, violate the terms of your probation/parole, LE finds it and/or is involved in some type of criminal offense (Selling or DUI accident/altercation).
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misspiggy
Journeyman
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 80
Loc: North Idaho
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No I'm not on probation or anything like that, I just like to make sure I'm not breaking any laws.
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dman22
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 264
Loc: Everywhere
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I would check on the customs site about importing Canadian drugs. There are lots of threads about this subject here on DB.
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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Many states have laws that require controlled substances, tylenol #3, to be in a properly labelled bottle with pharm, doc, and patient info. Bringing T#3 from outside the US you would not have this so that would be an issue, but the LE have to find it first.
Also, driving under the influence of T#3 is the same as driving under the influence of any other opiate, like heroin or hydro. It is also a crime in most states. The officer could test you in the field by looking for dilated pupils, slurred or slow speech, poor balance, droopy eyelids, etc. This would be enough to arrest for DUI, not to mention search and impound vehicle. If an officer suspects drugs in a DUI case the standard procedure for all departments I have worked for is to require a urine test , but blood will also work. The urine test we use covers virtually all opiates including codeine.
Finally, LE needs less reason to search a vehicle or person near an international border. Even local cops can make a case for searching a vehicle from far less than they would normally need within a couple of miles of a border.
Hope this helps.
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dman22
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 264
Loc: Everywhere
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You may also refuse the U.A./Blood tests, as well, and get the auto-license suspension.
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kandi
Veteran
Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 676
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
Many states have laws that require controlled substances, tylenol #3, to be in a properly labelled bottle with pharm, doc, and patient info. Bringing T#3 from outside the US you would not have this so that would be an issue, but the LE have to find it first.
Also, driving under the influence of T#3 is the same as driving under the influence of any other opiate, like heroin or hydro. It is also a crime in most states. The officer could test you in the field by looking for dilated pupils, slurred or slow speech, poor balance, droopy eyelids, etc. This would be enough to arrest for DUI, not to mention search and impound vehicle. If an officer suspects drugs in a DUI case the standard procedure for all departments I have worked for is to require a urine test , but blood will also work. The urine test we use covers virtually all opiates including codeine.
Finally, LE needs less reason to search a vehicle or person near an international border. Even local cops can make a case for searching a vehicle from far less than they would normally need within a couple of miles of a border.
Hope this helps.
I have a question about this issue. I am on Avinza, which is a sustained release morphine, and my pain doc has said that if I feel up to it, there is no reason for me not to go back to work. I feel no impairment on this medicine at all, and have been on it for several weeks. How would this law apply, in the case where a physician has documented that he feels there is no impairment from the medication? Would the case be based entirely on field testing results?Trampy, can you answer this one? TIA, kandi
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Monte Montgomery ROCKS!
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boylston
Newbie
Reged: 07/23/02
Posts: 32
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In contrast to the original poster's experiences, I was severly hassled by U.S. Customs for bringing back a bottle of 100 Tylenol #1's from Canada. The legal limit, of which I was unaware, is 50 tablets. Eventually they let me go with a stern warning, but also allowed me to keep my 100 tablets.
For those who aren't already aware, Tylenol #1 (which contains significantly less codeine than Tylenol #3) is sold over-the-counter in Canada. However, you won't find it on the shelf... you must ask the pharmacist for it.
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Billyl
Board Addict
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 389
Loc: NorthEast
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If the officer gives you a field sobriety test and you fail you are considered DUI. The real problem occours if you were involved in an accident. Many people have been convicted of being under the influence even though they thought they were ok. The give away for the officer if you were stopped for a routine stop would be your pupils.
Take care. Billylll
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Pocahontas
Enthusiast
Reged: 01/28/03
Posts: 209
Loc: North
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Of all the pee drug tests i have taken in my life, codeine always shows up as morphine. I've been told that codeine breaks down in your body as morphine but I don't know the chemistry behind it. I KNOW that I don't use morphine so there is no way morphine would normally show up in my drug screen...codeine yes!
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~Princess Pocahontas
Aim for the moon, for if you miss you will always land amongst the stars ...
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misspiggy
Journeyman
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 80
Loc: North Idaho
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OK so I just got back from Canada, and although it was a fun little trip, we got hassled at customs on the way back.
Years ago it was no big deal to bring back some codeine for personal use, but apparently they make a big deal out of it now.
We each bought a bottle of 200 and when we went through customs they made us pull over and thoroughly searched the car, we spent over an hour there being searched from head to toe, they even looked under our car!
So when all was said and done, we had to drive back to the Canadian customs and dump 150 pills each into the bathroom and come back through the US customs and show them!
I won't be going back to Canada for a very long time!
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 290
Loc: East
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Do the Codeine #1's even do anything? I know T-3's are good but not super pain relief.
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misspiggy
Journeyman
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 80
Loc: North Idaho
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I bought A,C,&C. Its aspirin 375mg, caffeine 15 mg, and 8 mg codeine.
They are not very strong but great for headaches.
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lardaman
Banned: flame wars, insults, offending others
Reged: 08/14/02
Posts: 244
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missP
I do that all the time. You may only take 50 pills per person accross. I have had trouble with some border guards in the past but they always have given it back before I cross. However reciently some border guards have confiscated this from others, since then, about a year ago, I stopped declairing them. Wasnt worth taking the chance since thats the main reason for going. Also you are right, although they are the weakest you can get, there great for putting down an upcomming migraine. Only cost about $4.00 USD per hundred as well.
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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Quote:
You may also refuse the U.A./Blood tests, as well, and get the auto-license suspension.
Correct, unless you are involved in an accident, on probation or parole, or injure someone- then the police have the right to forcibly draw blood.
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misspiggy
Journeyman
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 80
Loc: North Idaho
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Yeah, If I ever go again I will figure something else out.
Or maybe I will just order some online.
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
Quote:
You may also refuse the U.A./Blood tests, as well, and get the auto-license suspension.
Correct, unless you are involved in an accident, on probation or parole, or injure someone- then the police have the right to forcibly draw blood.
Police can forcibly draw blood? This i gotta see. Maybe in North Korea they do that. In the U.S. the police need an order signed by a judge. Then they can take you to a hospital and have a doctor or nurse draw the blood.
Trampy
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Your mileage may vary ...
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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In any case where police can show that the blood is relevant evidence then blood, like any other evidence, may be drawn without a court order. If you cause an accident while under the influence, are suspected of using illegal substances while on probation/parole, or cause an injury to a person while under the influence of a controlled substance your blood instantly becomes evidence.
A police officer can, and will, take you to a hospital where the medical staff will strap you down if necessary while blood is drawn. Because of the fact that the drugs will leave your blood stream in a short period of time, and assuming they are evidence, the blood may be withdrawn immediately without court order. State laws vary on what circumstances will allow for this practice, but most allow for forced blood draw for simple DUI.
I have personally arrested dozens of persons for driving under the influence or causing an accident while driving under the influence. About 20% of the time people refuse to give a sample in an important case(ie injury caused during DUI accident) and I personally took them to the hospital for a forced blood draw. One of our two local hospitals refuses to do it unless there is injury to a party for ethical reasons.
Ask yourself this question; If your family was killed by a driver under the influence of drugs only, prescribed or not, do you want that dirt bag to walk free because the police can't draw the blood they need for evidence??? North Korea, no. This is the U.S. where we must weigh the rights' of the thousands of innocent people that are injured/killed by DUI every year against the rights' of someone who is stupid enough to say "DUI is bad, but it's ok for me to do it!"
Here is an excerpt from Michigan story:
"After police stopped Robert H. Miller for driving erratically here one afternoon in February 2001, they asked for his license and registration. Then they asked for something else: his blood. Having been convicted of drunk driving once before, Mr. Miller refused to cooperate. So after he was taken to a hospital, five officers pinned him to the floor as a medical technician stuck a needle in his arm. His blood-alcohol level was 0.266% -- more than twice the legal limit. Mr. Miller, who declined to comment, challenged the tactic in court but lost. He pleaded no contest, was sentenced to up to 90 days in jail and lost his license for 18 months." web page
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Trampy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 1222
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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There's a BIG difference between police themselves taking blood from someone and them ordering a third party to perform a medical procedure without consent of the patient or court order. Since when are police allowed to act as judges and issue search warrants to be executed by a third party?
Anyway, if what you say is true, then that's just one more erosion of our 4th Amendment rights. Unless it's specifically upheld by a state law that passes constitutional muster, i have to say that your police who do that are acting unconstitutionally under the U.S. Constitution. It wouldn't be the first time. Police do unconstitutional searches all the time and the trial court judges look the other way. It's an expensive proposition to go to the appeals courts and so the police usually pick on poor people when they decide to violate their rights.
re "This is the U.S. where we must weigh the rights' of the thousands of innocent people that are injured/killed by DUI every year against the rights' of someone who is stupid enough ..."
Police have no authority or training to make them capable of doing such "weighing" of rights. That's why we have judges to do it. The U.S. is turning into a police state where the police make up the law as they go along. And they usually do it to people who look like they can't afford counsel ... which often amounts to racial and economic discrimination, which is also illegal.
Look at the NJ State Troopers; they still pull people over for Driving While Black despite the Consent Decree. I'll bet that news story you posted is about a poor Black or Hispanic they dragged to the hospital and didn't think it was worth the trouble to wake up a judge (they always have one on call) and have a search warrant faxed to the hospital from their house.
If it was a white middle-class person, i guarantee you they'd get that court order. I'll bet any amount that the explanation for your cases is simple racism.
Oh. I just read the story you posted a link to. It confirms my claim that the constitutionality of forced blood draws by police without a court order is still debatable and it also says that some states have banned it outright as an unreasonable search and seizure.
Maybe you live in one of the police states where they allow it. Thank God, i don't. A person here has the right to refuse blood and breath tests. Period. They also can refuse to take the field sobriety test, and practically every lawyer in the state will tell people to ALWAYS refuse the field sobriety test even if they've had nothing to drink (or drug) because refusing the field sobriety test *can't* be used against a person in court ... it's their right to refuse it. A person here can also refuse medical treatment after an accident and if they are conscious, it takes a court order to force a blood draw. It's all from our state Constitution and Supreme Court, which gives us more civil rights here than from the U.S. Supreme Court.
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Billyl
Board Addict
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 389
Loc: NorthEast
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This happens all the time. You mentioned my state. Here we did have to get a Judges order but it was really no hassle doing so. I didn't have much experience on the street but it has happened. There were cases (exceptions) were a suspect was taken to the hospital because we feared for his (the suspects) own life and in that case no order was needed. I kinda had to laugh at the other posters comment about 5 guys holding the person down while blood was being drawn (vivid memory of one such encounter). In N.J. driving is a privilage and if one refuses even the field sobriety test it is an automatic revokation of driving privilages.
Take care. Billylll
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dman22
Enthusiast
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 264
Loc: Everywhere
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I meant if you were stopped for a typical DWI/DUI with no incidents/accidents - they can't force you. Sorry if I mislead some. Thx.
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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I wrote another response, but then I smoked a cigarette and took ten deep breathes, as deep as a smoker can take...
First, you need to read and understand the Fourth Amendment. A citizen who doesn't understand their rights should not be suprised when they are trampled on. The protection is against unreasonable search and seizure. Police officers go through weeks of training to recognize drug and alcohol intoxication. If a police officer says there are drugs in your system, there are probably drugs in your system. As I previously stated, if there are drugs in your system they are evidence that must be collected quickly.
Second, you talk about racsist cops. Replace the word "police" in your statement with any race (ie white, black, hispanic) and you will see that it is hate speech. You are refering to a group of mostly honest hardworking people and identifying all of them by the color of their uniform. You do this because less than 2% of them nationwide commit a criminal act. Yet 23% of Americans will commit some type of crime before age 30.
Third, in many states police officers are required to have a minimum of an AA degree. I am finishing my MA in criminology. That means that I have four years of undergrad, two years of masters,one and one half years of police coursework, and a one year probationary period where I worked one on one with a senior officer. That is a total of eight and a half years of advanced education. A judge has between three years and seven years of advanced education (one need not have gone to college to go to law school).
Fourth, your right, all police are bad and we should do away with them immediately. Just make certain that when you and yours are being shot, beaten, raped, or stolen from you do not call 911 because we won't be there. While everyone is sleeping comfortably in their Ambien induced haze my "brothers and sisters in blue" and I were out there making sure no one broke into your house, abducted children, or killed an entire family on vacation by driving under the influence. But I agree, we should not be out there because you don't want a police state so we will go home to our loved ones. Except... I have three friends who can't go home to their spouses' and kids' because they died protecting your rights, including hate speech. One of them was killed by a drunk driver.
Fifth, you don't understand us. When my friend of seven years was killed on duty by a drunk driver on a San Diego Freeway because he stopped to help a family with their broken down car, I didn't go out and violate DUI suspects' rights I was more careful. The more careful I am with a suspect's rights the more likely I am to get a conviction.
Finally, if a person is truly innocent then why object to having blood drawn. These are not innocent people. Anyone who screams this loudly about police abusing rights is either an ACLU member(but that requires an education) or they have a guilty conscience. As you grow up I suggest you actually spend some time reading the constitution. Perhaps by the time you graduate from high school, in a few years, you will understand that America is not about RIGHTS, it is about balancing the rights of the individual against the needs of our society. If we lived in your America, some people, your friends and family only, would have unlimited freedom while the rest of us paid for their excess and hedonism. In that kind of a world you could call 911 while being raped, but the rest of us would have to tolerate you killing our children when you drive drunk. I don't want to live in that world.
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PIGINPAIN
Journeyman
Reged: 06/10/04
Posts: 85
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Actually, in CA your blood and UA can be forced for simple DUI or drug intoxication. The UA is forced by taking you to a hospital and having a Foley Cathetor (sp) inserted. It is rarely done unless you are on your third DUI, but it can and has been done in this state and many others. The UA is generally not used because it is in a gray area of excessive force, but I know of a case out of San Jose area where a hype had blown all of his veins and the only way to get a sample was UA.
If you'd like I can find the case and PM you with the info.
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 290
Loc: East
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A lot of offices need at least a AA degree but their are tons out their with nothing more than a high school education and HUGE attitude.
I would hardly call most of them honest and hardworking people.
And, if they are so busy protecting us then why do they constantly mess up or leave people asking. "where were the police when this happened??"
Answer, parked and resting!
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johng
Board Addict
Reged: 02/13/03
Posts: 352
Loc: great lakes
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any young adult in a postion of authoity will "act like a big shot' I was in LE for my fist few years out of high school. I had an attitude. But guess what I grew up in a few months and that attitude went away. When I relized I had peoples lives in my hand. after a dose of reality I relized I did not want to me be in LE but be a paramedic. The lessons I learned as an officer made me a better adult. I went from a 20 year old kid to 21 yearold adult.
I am thankful for the lessons I learned and the help i gave people while I was in LE
there are more good LE than bad LE. most are trying to do a job and go home at the end of there shift. LE has to follow the rules just like 100% of the US jobs. The LE that dont conform to the rules are filtered out. Just like in any job..
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Ask and it will be given to you Matthew 7:7
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