Survector
Newbie
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 38
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Does all of this DEA-raid news mean that current pharmacies whom people have ordered from will get raided shortly as well (and then have their customer data scrutinized)?
This is extremely unsettling information, and makes me fear for my ability to get the anxiety and sleep relief I need (which no local doctor has been able to adequately help with). In addition, it makes me fear that any potential orders I make will come back to get me even if not until several months from now.
Any attorneys who can give everyone *solid* legal advice at this point (regarding the course of action to take during a potential DEA visit to one's door), please making a posting. No second hand hearsay advice please (a.k.a. "I heard from a friend that his attorney said this .... "). This also applies to uninformed armchair advice. If there are no attorneys that make postings on this message board, then I suggest someone contact a good one and then transpose that attorney's advice onto this message thread in a clear, concise and comprehensive manner for everyone to read.
This would help to greatly clarify the real implications of choosing whether to 'cooperate' or not with DEA questions and requests (i.e. will a refusal to say anything result in a subsequent issuance of a search warrant, etc).
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Tred
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/18/03
Posts: 261
Loc: USA
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Unfortunatly we all really don't know what will happen. Could be nothing.. could be something. All I do know is that LE and the DEA are wanting to shut down the main outlet for medication, not the patient. But.. people still may recieve a visit 2 months down the road. Most likely for questioning. A red flag could however be put on a person, but this is unlikely. We'll just have to wait and see..
For now, try not to worry yourself so much. It won't help anything anyway and the better sprits your in.. the better this mess will seem.
Tred =)
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Entertainment Specialist!
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Hertz50
Journeyman
Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 73
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Most importantly we all need to remember that if any letters or MIB come a knockin' do not volunteer anything out of the goodness of our hearts or fear..
We need to not be stupid. Have an attorney's name and # ready to call. Once we open our mouths and say something ignorant hoping to "make them happy" we are F*kked.
They expect us to be frightened and babble like children.
Say nothing and make a phone call.
Any atty out there care to advise?
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t_oshan2003
Enthusiast
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 290
Loc: East
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Also, most LE's and MIB had trouble getting just a GED, they think their badges will scare you and make you talk. Just tell them to leave and you will call an attorney, they are not very bright and for them to waist time on someone ordering 30 valiums then they are going to be known as officials that waist valuable resources and time and be out of a job quick.
Best advice, relax!
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Caseyaly
Stranger
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 21
Loc: Mid-Atlantic Seaboard
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Quote:
If there are no attorneys that make postings on this message board, then I suggest someone contact a good one and then transpose that attorney's advice onto this message thread in a clear, concise and comprehensive manner for everyone to read.
Excellent idea. Perhaps you may be in a position to contact a good attorney that would be able to shed some light on this important topic with us.
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"You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime, you just might find
You get what you need" ~~ The Rolling Stones
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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My two cents quoted from another thread on this matter (no I have not spoken to an attorney):
Unless youre ordering large quantities of a controlled substance (in which case you should be well aware of the risks involved anyway) I dont think most OP customers have much to worry about other than having a harder time trying to obtain their meds.
It just wouldnt be worth the DEA, etc.'s time, effort, and especially, money otherwise. As I have mentioned in previous posts, they are interested in the big guys. They feel if they can shut these places down, they will have accomplished their goal. If they nab some illicit drug dealers who were simply using these sites as a way to obtain their product in the process cool, but that is about as far as I think it will go.
Imagine the field day the media would have if they did try to bring a case against someone, well, like a 75 year old lady with no insurance ordering meds to control chronic pain. How precious government funds were being used to bring a federal case (which, since it involves interstate commerce it would have to be) against a little old lady trying to manage her pain.
I just can't see it happening.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Quote:
If there are no attorneys that make postings on this message board, then I suggest someone contact a good one and then transpose that attorney's advice onto this message thread in a clear, concise and comprehensive manner for everyone to read.
Excellent idea. Perhaps you may be in a position to contact a good attorney that would be able to shed some light on this important topic with us.
I agree. Especially since most will charge for their services I think we would all love some free legal advice.
Keep in mind, however, that each and every case is different and if I were an attorney I would be loath to give out any kind of overall advice on a legal matter.
It's like someone asking "My neighbor smelled me smoking pot and I'm afraid he might call the police. Post some advice."
In either case, I think any attorney worth his salt is going to reply that he can offer only three pieces of advice, which apply in any situation like this:
1) Don't worry until something happens.
2) If you do get approached by the authorities, say nothing and
3) Hire a good criminal defense attorney.
I mean, really, what else could he say?
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bronwyn
Newbie
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 40
Loc: bluegrass
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Quote:
Also, most LE's and MIB had trouble getting just a GED, they think their badges will scare you and make you talk. Just tell them to leave and you will call an attorney, they are not very bright and for them to waist time on someone ordering 30 valiums then they are going to be known as officials that waist valuable resources and time and be out of a job quick.
Best advice, relax!
I have worked with LE the world over and have a problem with this statement.
Actually, LE has improved greatly in the number of college graduates, both at the bachelors and at the masters level (grad school) and have become one of the more educated professions in the nation. You have your rights, but they also have their job. If you have been truthful, and I'm not going to say that there aren't overzealous le out there (having a family member be a target of one), then stick to your guns, exercise your rights, and be truthful! If you feel a little shady - cut a deal - they always want a bigger fish. Just please don't continue to degrade LE. They are way underpaid for the very hazardous conditions they work in. They just want to do their job and go home to their families alive. Also, many injured LE have the same problems we have in obtaining adequate relief. The ones to attack are not the officers, but the politicians who have created a climate of harassment for any one who requires medication, legit or not.
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Bronwyn
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Overall a very good post.
Now I will admit that I personally can't stand cops and have had several bad experiences to back it up.
However, I have a problem with bashing anyone and especially any group in general. There are good and bad people in any profession.
Unfortunately, because of the fact it is a very difficult, dangerous, tough job and the fact that the pay usually sucks I find it tends to attract too many, well, lets say less than educated, understanding, and tolerant people.
I think there are several things that can be done to change this.
First, increase education requirements. A minimum a four year college degree as well as ongoing sensitivity and people skills training (many larger departments do at least some of this). The job is a lot more complex and knowledge of people handling a lot more critical than many office jobs that have the same education requirements and training programs.
Increase the pay scale. The pay is pathetically low, especially in many large dangerous urban municipalities. You are only going to attract higher quality people to a dangerous job if you pay them well enough.
Change the focus of policing from getting the bad guys and responding to 911 calls to helping people and stabilizing communities.
In many urban areas, LEs are looked at simply as there to hassle people. Residents only see them when something bad is happening, therefore usually not seeing them in the most positive way. If LEs take time to get to know the community, involve themselves with the community (helping kids get into sports programs is just one example), this can have so many positive benefits: Reducing crime, increasing cooperation from the community when it is needed to solve a crime, having the community feel the police are their to help rather than hurt them, etc.
Again, this is happening to at least some degree in many areas and where it has, I think you see results. But there is still, in my opinion and experience, a long way to go.
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tennfan
Stranger
Reged: 12/16/03
Posts: 1
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If a lawyer gives general advice, that would be bad advice, given that advice may subject him to a malpractice suit. Though general, and somewhat arguable, I'd rather not argue about it. That said, the crux of the legal dispute with OP's is a "doctor patient relationship." Most states require such to prescribe medication. States have been changing this. Nevada, for example, requires a face-to-face visit. Accordingly, in most states, whether OP's practice legally is debatable. Charges for such doctor's will likely be on other grounds. If from a state that requires a "doctor patient relationship," and if that state has yet to define whether this entails a face-to-face visit, your activity arguably is legal unless you violate other laws. A basic prescription hardly raises probable cause that there exists no such relationship. Further, because the law remains vague, certain federal constitutional rights potentially would bar retroactive prosecution of such charges if the law settles in culpable direction. In all, individual prosecution of facially valid prescriptions would create a mess, and good attorneys would deplete the state's funds in fighting such prosecutions. I would verify the laws of state; most OP's, for example, won't ship to states that have clear law (Nevada).
Regards -
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pinkshirt1
Stranger
Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 21
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I have always loved LE, especially when it was Arnold Schwarznneger playing the part. But now he is a govenor ! drats. But if Arnold came knocking at my door, I'd give him whatever he wanted ... and then melt. Sorry if I got a little off topic but men in uniforms are hot.
PS
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Totally agree with you.
So, everyone, take a Valium and chill out.
Like I said, they are most concerned in restricting access to OP's and defining what that access will be and which will be shut down.
Keep writing/calling your congressional representatives. This matter is far from resolved and we have a unique ability to influence its outcome.
On the positive side, there is so much focus on the mess in Iraq now and combined with election season I doubt we will see much legislative action this year. We will probably continue to see some raids. But as the DEA says, for every one they close, three more open.
The laws are quite murky in most states (now I understand why many sites will not ship to Nevada!). Once again technology is ahead of the laws. Surely when laws on prescription drugs were being drafted no one ever envisioned that a day would come when meds could be ordered with the click of the mouse. So, everyone is trying to figure out how to handle this. The jury is still out
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TSLTiff
Member
Reged: 03/08/04
Posts: 118
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Agreed, I mean, just think about it with some common sense. The powers that be want to make it so the normal person with no medical issues cannot easily get their hands on narcotics. To do this, they will have to take down either the people buying, or those selling. It's a sheer numbers game. Albeit, there are hundreds if not thousands of OP's out there, but that's a ton easier to manage than watching people who buy the meds (who may or may not need them). This way, they don't have to make that distinction between patients that truly need this help and those who don't, and just take a blanket stance that says "NO MORE ONLINE PHARMACIES" due to abuse by some. Once again, abuse by some ruins everything for those that need it.
Thanks
S
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pinkshirt1
Stranger
Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 21
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Yeah, its funny how "murky" the law is in Nevada ... legalized prostitues but only in one town, legal gambling/casinos. It's probably a bad idea to ship pain meds down there, people would have just toooo much fun.
PS
Edited by pinkshirt1 (05/26/04 08:26 AM)
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troll
Stranger
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 14
Loc: wy.,usa
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i think nycal hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
opt for more education!!!!!opt for better wages!!!!
i'm not saying a certain percentage of LE is not in it for the right reasons.....HOWEVER......wayyyyyyyyyy too many are in it for the WRONG reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!a bit of an authority complex coupled w/ more than a tad of good ol' fashion ego ,pitch in a large pinch of sadistic overtone & you have a deadly combo.....
much better schooling,much better wages & MUCH better screening just might be the answer!!!!!!
am sure i'll get flamed for this big time,but oh well,last time i checked we were entitled to our own opinions!!!!! troll
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Thanks, and I agree with your post as well.
Since I was replying to a poster who was concerned with flaming LE's and didn't want to be accused of flaming myself I tried to hold back what really are my quite strong negative feelings toward most of "today's" LE's.
I guess I still will, except to say that I think more LE's need to realize that the public they are dealing with are the ones paying their salary....
Way too much ego, "power trips," nasty attitudes, and immediate presumption of guilt from my experiences with LE's.
And talk about perp's lying! I had cops tell direct lies about what they saw and did in court under oath. I've had cops plant evidence.
Shouldn't they be taking the high road and setting an example? Some example.
Sorry, I wish I had more positive experiences with them in my 40 years of life. But, sadly, that hasnt been the case.
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menopausin
Newbie
Reged: 12/08/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Alabama
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We had a chronic pain doc who "voluntarily" surrendered his license last June. I didn't get my records in time and had to hunt him down. So I called the AMA-Alabama Medical Association. This doc was a quack to begin with, but he helped alot of people with pain. The man I talked to was the one who investigated the doctor. I didn't really care if he knew I went to him, what could he do? We talked about several things and I brought up the topic of people getting meds online. He told me it was legal for the ones getting the meds, we have prescriptions. The ones prescribing aren't seeing us and they're in the "wrong". Not so. Read the fine print on most of these. You'll find out you've been places you've never been before. LOL! That's all I'm gonna say, except I ain't worried. They can come to my house anytime. I just don't take my meds with me, cause they'll get you for DUI. This is a Best if kept off the board crooked state, but there's always ways around their assinine laws that they're breaking themselves. I have no respect for most cops and even less of the medical community. I'm a nurse and I see medical professionals on their knees and pissing in their pants because of the DEA and the laws they make. If they'd take a stand and do what's right, maybe things would be ALOT different. I believe, as long as you have a prescription, you're in the clear. And the OP's will take care of their end, I'm sure. Oh, BTW, that oath the docs take? The name's changed---The Hypocritical Oath. Mine's not changed. You guys stay pain free and have a happy holiday! menopausin 
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I don't suffer from insanity, I love every minute of it!
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IMSUSCOT1
Threadhead
Reged: 10/23/02
Posts: 868
Loc: usa
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This post is not directed at anyone in particular...that said...lots of you have very strong feelings about LE officers and seem to feel their synister, power hungry morons...
I believe it's one of the MOST difficult jobs ANYONE can do. My best friend's (who's a nurse I went to nursing school with)husband is a cop. He DOES have a four year degree and is retired military. He's a father of 5, and I rode along with him one night.
He took far more abuse that night than anyone COULD EVER dish out!! I saw two men try to jump him & take away his weapon (I almost sh#$ my pants!), I saw several drunks (sluring their words, stumbling when trying to get out of the car) all tell him they had 2 beers (why is it EVERYONE ever stopped anywhere for DUI has had 2 BEERS????) and ALL of them became verybally abusive when he put the cuffs on...one guy SPIT at us the whole way down to the station. SPIT AT US!! I swear, had I been the LE officer, I would have stopped the car, pulled his Best if kept off the board out & beat the hell out of him with my billy club...it would be the LAST time he ever SPIT at anyone again....my friend, just laughed it off...
I saw him ticket 4 parents for not having their children properly restrained..course, many here will say that's far too aggressive and not their business anyway...after doing Peds ICU for nearly 10 years, I can tell you if the parents are too friggin stupid to buckle their kids up, they should let LE SMASH them in the face with a baseball bat, the same way their babies/children's faces were smased in by the dashboard, or mangled bodies have to mend after being thrown from the car.
I've seen I don't know how many times, when someone posts, "someone stole my narcotics"..everyone say's, "you should report it to the police"
LE deserves far more respect than they get...their just like any other group of people, there are a few bad apples in the bunch...just like nurses, just like doctors, just like accountants. etc, etc
I have a hard time disrespecting ANYONE who potentially lays down his life for mine, every time he gets in his car to go to work.
Ok, now I'll get off my soapbox.
Edited by IMSUSCOT1 (05/27/04 06:08 PM)
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
This post is not directed at anyone in particular...that said...lots of you have very strong feelings about LE officers and seem to feel their synister, power hungry morons...
I believe it's one of the MOST difficult jobs ANYONE can do.....
LE deserves far more respect than they get...their just like any other group of people, there are a few bad apples in the bunch...just like nurses, just like doctors, just like accountants. etc, etc
I have a hard time disrespecting ANYONE who potentially lays down his life for mine, every time he gets in his car to go to work.
Ok, now I'll get off my soapbox.
I have never had the good fortune of a cop helping me in any way what so ever.
Hence my argument for involving them more in the community instead of just, for example, running my plates every time I drive through downtown after midnight (in a particular town in New Jersey because I have NY plates). Maybe Id have a more positive image of them.
Maybe if I didnt have two separate cops lie under oath (to back each other up of course) Id be more respectful of them.
In a separate incident, if a cop hadnt scoured the floor of my car for some weed fragments because he was so darn sure me and my friend had drugs when he pulled us over and was pissed he couldnt find anything more, Id feel like they really are looking out for my best interests. Note: the weed fragments were enough to impound the car and take both me and friend for a 12 hour visit to the holding tank.
The case was eventually dismissed of course. The cop told us it would be. But he said he wanted to teach us a lesson since he just knew we were dopers.
I could go on. Theres more for me and I havent even begun to talk about the nightmare experiences of my friends and family.
Look, like I said. I speak only from experience. I know the police have a difficult time. I did write a post explaining how I think they can be improved and I am all for increasing their pay.
But you know, there are only so many times you can be burned before you loose any measure of respect.
Maybe some day I can report a more positive experience.
Im still waiting
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caramello51
Board Addict
Reged: 09/28/02
Posts: 311
Loc: Alaska
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i recognize that law enforcement officials have a tough job, and i'm sure there are many decent people in this line of work, BUT my very first experience with police was a hoot, in retrospective, but a bad learning lesson at the time. my little brother had a 'doodle-bug' (a kind of small motor scooter), it got stolen, my parents called the police (this was in the middle '50's) the police came, got all the serial numbers, and then found out it had been a stolen doodle-bug, and not registered before my parents had bought it. well, guess what? my parents ended up paying a huge fine and all the back registration fees. we never did get the 'doodle-bug' back.
and that's pretty much the way my experience with LE has been. they are definitely a LAST resort when a person is in trouble.
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
they are definitely a LAST resort when a person is in trouble.
My sentiments exactly.
And that, my friend, is the crux of the problem.
People like us should feel that they can call on the police to help. Me, I wouldn't trust them to help me with anything and only would call them if I had no other choice.
The couple of times in my life I actually called the police to help were not great experiences either. The first time, when I was mugged and robbed about the best thing I can say was they provided a report to send my insurance company. Nobody was ever caught. Trying to follow up with the detective was like trying to get the president.
The other time in a dispute with a neighbor with illegal roommates, harrassment, etc., they believed the neighbors story even though it was I who called and had witnesses. They started to make it out to be my fault, that the neighbors said I was performing "illegal activites" (never explained more than that) in my apartment. They then, clearly taking the neighbor at least somewhat seriously, began to snoop around my apartment and question me about me job, my visitors, activities, how often I'm home, etc. So somehow I began to become the suspect....
Yeah, putting their life on the line for me every day. B.S.
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troll
Stranger
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 14
Loc: wy.,usa
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 Re: Future Orders for Anxiety Medication [Re: IMSUSCOT1]
#165733 - 05/31/04 06:12 AM Attachment (22 downloads)
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(why is it EVERYONE ever stopped anywhere for DUI has had 2 BEERS????) and ALL pulled his Best if kept off the board out & beat the hell out of him with my billy club...it would be the LAST time he ever SPIT at anyone again....my friend, just laughed it off...
after doing Peds ICU for nearly 10 years, I can tell you if the parents are too friggin stupid to buckle their kids up, they should let LE SMASH them in the face with a baseball bat
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troll
Stranger
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 14
Loc: wy.,usa
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bummer,my quote thing didn't work,but hopefully you get my drift,YOU TOO could be a prime candidate.....LOL
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nycalt
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 548
Loc: Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
bummer,my quote thing didn't work,but hopefully you get my drift,YOU TOO could be a prime candidate.....LOL
Also, not to justify lying on either side of the law, but when someone is put in a stressful situation, that they know they are probably screwed anyway; lying becomes a defensive response.
How many people lied when they took a day off from work (remember all those "blue flu's," lest the cops think they set a wonderful example).
How may people lie to their partner when they were out a little too late with maybe the wrong person?
Yeah, there's different degree's but its the same process. Lying because youre scared and think it will keep you out of trouble.
I'm not justifying any of this, but when your butt is on the line its almost a animal reaction to pull out every defensive maneuver you know including lying.
Many people realize later it was a stupid idea but in the heat of the moment, and knowing what cops pull, you sometimes kind of cant blame them.
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